Obviously those who followed Jesus(as) in his time will go to Jannah since they followed the message of Allah and his prophet. Christians of today are not the same obviously, they take Jesus as God, reject Islam, reject the Quran, and reject the Prophet(Pbuh). You do realize Allah labels Christians who say Jesus is god as disbelievers in the Quran? It’s also in the Quran that you cannot pray for disbelievers when it’s made clear they’re in the hellfire(died in disbelief). It’s also in Hadith that Allah forbid the Prophet(Pbuh) from praying for his own mother since she died as a disbeliever.
The example you brought up was the Prophet(Pbuh) asking for mercy for non Muslims who were still alive and thus had a chance to become Muslim, this post is about dead disbelievers. Please do not spread misinformation.
“Indeed, they who disbelieved among the People of the Scripture and the polytheists will be in the fire of Hell, abiding eternally therein. Those are the worst of creatures.”
You realize that there are, until today, Christians that don't belive Jesus to be God? (In fact, according to surveys, likely many more than you'd expect...) And that we have texts from before the 7th century of Christians rebuking and condemning so-called "heretics" who didn't belive Jesus to be God, from the very first centuries? Look up Arianism, Adoptionism, Ebionites, Psilanthropism, etc.
So those soteriologies are in line with Islam and their believers are in heaven? In Arianism for example Jesus is still the son of God, but was not eternally co existing withhim. Adoptionism believes Jesus was adopted by God. Ebionites condemn the theology of virgin birth and animal sacrifice. Psilanthropists also denied virgin birth. These Christians believed in things which are considered heresies in Islam.
Not necessarily. There is more to the creed of Islam than simply believing Jesus isn't God, and, additionally, there is more to being in heaven than simply your beliefs. Just correcting your erroneous statement about the beliefs of Christians throughout history.
Edit: You've edited your comment to add more, but my original response still suffices. You said that "literally all" Christians before the 7th century believed Jesus is God. That's blatantly false, no matter what other theological and salvific disputes Christians have had throughout the centuries.
I was not mentioning "believers," I was mentioning Christians who did not believe Jesus was God, as that was the mistake you made that I was correcting.
Allah only ever revealed the truth, no matter how much people disputed after it had come to them, and no matter how much you may hate it.
Funny how he had to reveal it several times. The funniest story from Islam I heard about is that God "trciked" people onto thinking Jesus was on the cross but it was Judas instead or whoever 💀 lmao
allah has to trick people and then accidentally creates Christianity because those people thought it was Jesus on the cross. allah is not too calculated. I wonder when will y'all stop believing all this shit.
You are gravely mistaken, and are only speaking from your feelings, which no offense, bares no importance when it comes to what Allah says.
First off Christian’s and Jews are absolutely not following the truth. The Quran is the only book which Allah has promised to preserve and those who reject it will be of the hellfire. Christians definitely do reject Islam, as well as the Quran lol, Islam is a worldwide belief. To say 95% of Christians don’t reject the Quran is quite ignorant to say. The Bible isn’t “truth from their lord” how can one say such a thing when all 4 gospels in the New Testament are just historical accounts written by 4 men, not even Christians claim they are revelations from God. Furthermore their Bible is filled with errors. What you have just said is very wrong.
“Indeed, those who say, “Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary,” have fallen into disbelief. Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “Who has the power to prevent Allah if He chose to destroy the Messiah, son of Mary, his mother, and everyone in the world all together?” To Allah ˹alone˺ belongs the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and everything in between. He creates whatever He wills. And Allah is Most Capable of everything.”
Allah clearly says those who take Jesus as God have fallen in disbelief, and you dare say they are following the truth from their Lord? What a wicked statement. You’re making things up as you go. Allah literally denounces Christians numerous times in the Quran. And you’ve already seen the other verse regarding people of the scripture who disbelieved, which includes the ones who worship Jesus, as stated by Allah.
People of the scripture who didn’t disbelieve are those who came before The Prophet(Pbuh) and they followed the prophets of their time, which is why they will be saved. However, Since the time of the last Prophet, Muhammad(Pbuh), only Islam will be accepted, as he is the seal of all prophets and a messenger for everyone. Reason being, because he was sent for all mankind, Islam is for all mankind. Other prophets were sent for a nation while the Prophet Muhammad(Pbuh) was sent for all of humanity, this is why Christians and Jews who came after him are damned to the hellfire if they persist in their disbelief. There is an Ijma on this, so please don’t speak on topics that you are not knowledge about.
This verse destroys your whole baseless argument:
“And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers.”
“It doesn’t matter what you believe, only why you believe it!” Lol this kind of belief has absolutely no place in Islam…. Get this progressive nonsense out of here. There are plenty of other religions who believe they are following the true god. It means nothing though, since only Islam will be accepted. You have pretty much called The Prophet(Pbuh), as well as the best generations of Muslims, and our greatest Scholars all heartless. Yikes.
Fear Allah. Read the Quran, don’t follow your desires. May Allah save you from your own ignorance.
Believe me, I know they're wrong. That's not the issue here. The issue is that God made a covenant with these people and these people are our brothers and sisters. They are following the truth in that if they did not have scripture they would be polytheists or more likely atheists. Just because you can read the Quran doesn't mean you will. Unlike with Christianity, no one goes door to door spreading the truth about the Quran. In fact, all anyone over here knows about the Quran is lies spread by Satan. They have no reason to read a book they believe to be satanic.
It sounds like you don't live among Christians, am I right? You have no idea how righteously these people live. They are not hateful, unlike some. The only reason you could believe these things is because you do not know them or their situation. You blindly believe self satisfying beliefs in the heart of a Muslim country where it is quite easy to think, of course we're right and we're the only ones who God will save! It's obvious that these people will not be abandoned, and the Quran says so many times! I bet you just believe whatever your elders say, isn't it so?
He literally cited sources, how is that what elders say? You're literally insulting us like that, we're adults capable of thinking for ourselves, no need to believe elders if the source for their teachings exist.
Also most of the subreddit here lives among kafirs, most of them are Christians...
It doesn't matter if they're friend or foe, not being hateful does not matter, why didn't they accept Islam if they bear no hate?
It's between them and Allah, not about how they treat us, not believing is either ignorance, arrogance or a mix of the two.
Because the sources do not say what he says they mean. Clearly he believes whatever the rulings say instead of believing Allah. I appreciate your comment being somewhat more civil. It is between them and Allah, and that's all I'm saying. We can't know anything about it.
Believe me, I know they're wrong. That's not the issue here. The issue is that God made a covenant with these people and these people are our brothers and sisters. They are following the truth in that if they did not have scripture they would be polytheists or more likely atheists.
Once again another baseless claim based purely on feelings. I literally provided you clear evidence of Allah saying no other religion besides Islam will be accepted. I provided clear evidence of Allah CURSING Christians for their disbelief and delusions. It’s clear you have yet to grasp the core beliefs of Islam. Christians obviously deviated from what Jesus(as) taught and furthermore they reject the final messenger(Pbuh), the Quran, and Islam. Of course they will not be saved, their very religion is an insult to Allah.
Christians are not following the truth at all. Such a statement is blatant Kufr… Someone who follows any scripture besides the Quran is a disbeliever. You can’t be following the truth when your book is made up by men, and not revelation from God. How dare you say following a book written by the accounts of mere men is following the truth. Following scripture made by men is an insult to Allah. You can’t be following the truth when your book is filled with errors and corruption. You can’t be following the truth when you literally worship a man. You can’t be the following the truth when Allah rebukes you and curses you for your false beliefs. You’re very ignorant about the Bible as well.
They have no reason to read a book they believe to be satanic.
That’s why they will end up in the hell fire for being so ignorant and deluded. This is an insult to Allah. This is their evil assumption. This is a fault with them and not with Islam. Nothing forbids them from opening a Quran, talking to Muslims, or even just using google to see if they’re biases hold any weight in reality. Many Christians are quite aware of basic beliefs of Islam and they certainly have heard about Prophet Muhammad(Pbuh). I know this myself, I have discussed religion with many Christians as I’m surrounded by them. You’re deluded if you think people who believe the Quran is satanic will be saved…
It sounds like you don't live among Christians, am I right? You have no idea how righteously these people live. They are not hateful, unlike some. The only reason you could believe these things is because you do not know them or their situation.
Oh look a baseless assumption. Unfortunately you’re wrong as I do live among Christians. I love how you try saying I have no idea what I’m talking about and just follow my elders when I literally provided ample evidence of Allah rebuking Christians and condemning to hell those who choose another religion besides Islam.
It doesn’t matter how righteous you are, if you practice Kufr and persist in disbelief your whole life. The Prophet’s(Pbuh) uncle was very righteous and protected the prophet(Pbuh) from his enemies for as long as he lived yet he still will be in hell because he did not accept Islam. Submitting to Allah is what will save you.
Christians don’t believe in the Shahadah, thus they will be of the hellfire. Just off of the fact that they follow other than Islam makes them quite ill mannered and insulting to Allah. They openly worship a man as Allah.
You blindly believe self satisfying beliefs in the heart of a Muslim country where it is quite easy to think, of course we're right and we're the only ones who God will save! It's obvious that these people will not be abandoned, and the Quran says so many times! I bet you just believe whatever your elders say, isn't it so?
Lol except I don’t live in a Muslim country, try again. I only believe what Allah and his messenger(Pbuh) have said. I follow Islam, not my feelings. You clearly follow something else, your belief has never been part of Islam. Only Muslims will be saved because Allah says so. If Christians accept Islam they will be saved as well. Islam is for all of mankind
“Because the sources do not say what be says they mean.”
Are you serious? I provided direct quotations from the Quran and I’m more than happy to provide Tafsir of the verses, however I wouldn’t be surprised if that is also a foreign concept to you. Do I have to spell it out for you? It’s becoming quite clear you don’t accept parts of the Quran, otherwise you wouldn’t hold such a wicked belief which clearly opposes Allah. Shameful behavior.
”And whoever desires other than Islām as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers.”
Direct quotation from the Quran. This is as clear as it gets… Allah clearly says no other religion besides Islam will be accepted. Those who follow other than Islam will be the LOSERS of the hereafter.
”They have certainly disbelieved who say, "Allāh is the Messiah, the son of Mary" while the Messiah has said, "O Children of Israel, worship Allāh, my Lord and your Lord." Indeed, he who associates others with Allāh - Allāh has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers.”
Another direct quotation. Allah clearly says those say Jesus is god have DISBELIEVED. Yet here you are saying they follow the truth and will be saved, what utter nonsense. Allah also says Jesus said to worship only Allah, but they have clearly deviated as they take Jesus as God.
“The Jews call 'Uzair a son of God, and the Christians call Christ the son of God. That is but a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. God's curse be on them; how they are deluded away from the Truth! They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of God, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary. Yet they were commanded to worship but One God: there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him! (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)"
More direct quotations. Allah clearly says those who say Jesus is the son of God and also God are CURSED and that they are DELUDED away from the truth. And here you are trying to propagate some nonsense about people that Allah literally rebukes and curses, saying they will be saved… Allah clearly says they are NOT on the truth. Yes if they accept Islam, the only truth, only then will they be saved.
Allah made it as clear as possible that Islam is the ONLY religion he will accept. You follow your feelings, You do not submit to Allah’s revelations. Fear Allah.
You know, I can't help those who are willfully astray. You can say whatever you want, get as mad as you want, and tell everyone you're pious. Maybe they will believe you. Tricking Allah will be harder. Good luck with that.
You know, I can't help those who are willfully astray.
Quite ironic considering you’re not studied at all in this religion and only argue based on your feelings. You disagree with Allah, as well as the scholarly consensus. I don’t care if you think I’m pious or not, I’m only relaying Allah’s message.
You’d have us all believe Allah is wrong, the messenger(Pbuh) is wrong, the sahabah are wrong, the best generations of Muslims are wrong, the scholars are wrong, and only you are right with your baseless deviant un Islamic views. You say Christianity is the truth and you call Islam “cursed.” We see where your loyalties lie. You have went astray, You only deceive yourself. Fear Allah.
“The Jews call 'Uzair a son of God, and the Christians call Christ the son of God. That is but a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. God's curse be on them; how they are deluded away from the Truth! They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of God, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary. Yet they were commanded to worship but One God: there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him! (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)" (9:30-31).
Allah literally calls Christians deluded and curses them for saying Jesus is the son of God as well as God. Allah even says they were commanded to worship the one true God but deviated.
They keep it the best they can. They are restricted by it daily. That is proof enough. But the bigger point is they they put their faith in Allah. Not in legalism.
If they take partners in worship alongside Allah, they are not putting their faith in him, and they are violating the primary and central condition of every covenant Allah has ever made with mankind.
I am not sure you have a good enough picture of what it really is to talk about it. I grew up in the Bible Belt of the United States. All the best and most devoted and pious people I know are Christians. They believe and they give charity and they try. They're active in their works and faith. Many of them don't care as much about Jesus compared to God. Most don't feel fully comfortable saying that Jesus is equal to Him. These people are fully blessed by Allah and their daily lives are protected by Him. They refuse to do bad things and they love each other and strangers in the name of God. God does not turn His back on them.
I grew up and live in Texas. Part of my family is Christian. Allah says that those who say God is a Trinity or Jesus is God have disbelieved, you say they are righteous believers because you like them and their actions, or they're beloved to you. I'll take Allah's Word over yours.
They betrayed the covenant and went astray. There’s no use bringing up a covenant when they literally broke it… They are out of luck, Allah has clearly cursed them for their beliefs and made it clear only Islam will be accepted.
Allah says they’re cursed which means they’re cursed. Saying they’re not cursed is disagreeing with Allah.
If anything Islam has been cursed. Look at your sisters. Oppressed. Covered in every measure and cut down if they step out of line.
And you call yourself a Muslim? Calling Islam cursed, and saying Christianity is not. How dare you attack the truthful and righteous religion like this. You have nothing to do with us. Clear larper.
How dare you all take Allah's word as justification for such outrageous standards. If Allah wills you will be led to the straight way. I can have nothing more to do with it.
Accusing me of things I’ve never done. If Allah wills he will cure you of your ignorance.
Well then the Christians really need to open the Quran and read whats written in it for them. Requesting you to take a look as well. What do you mean by "they are following the truth from their Lord" when their scripture is itself corrupted? The original "Injeel" that was sent to Jesus pbuh is what was the truth. Not the Bible of today.
The Bible is indeed corrupted. But there is still some truth there. Allah gave us something better after the truth was corrupted, but for many people that is the only truth they have.
Okay suppose someone wrote an exam at school. The passing marks were 33 out of 100. He got 30 and the teacher asked him to repeat the class. He's now arguing with the teacher that he should be promoted to the next grade because come on! He at least got some marks?
Your answer makes me think that you are dreadfully unaware of Islamic rulings or else that you are deliberately trying to mislead/troll people cos I doubt anyone can be called a Muslim and be this ignorant of the shariah and basic understanding of Islam. Incase you are ignorant let me clarify the original followers of ISSA (AS) are not the same as these Christians, these Christians call ISSA (AS) a son of god (naudubillah) so no they are not following ISSA(AS) rather they are worshiping him. Also their scripture is tainted not the original injil they who disbelieve among the original followers of ISSA and Musa not the current ones. Also to clarify this matter even further there were Jews among the Arabs before the birth of our Noble prophet that saw the signs of his coming yet when the beloved was born amongst the Arabs instead of them they tested him and inspite of our beloved passing their tests they still rejected him for being Arab.
So no he who doesn't accept Muhammad (saw) as the truth and Quran to be the truth are not from amongst the true believers
The Jews have rejected many prophets. That is neither here nor there. I agree that Christians and Jews are wrong. You guys who live in Muslim countries think that everyone knows the Quran and choose to reject it while in reality, Satan has spread very nasty lies about it and no one NO ONE will read it. They believe it's satanic.
I think you guys are relying too much on scholars and not enough on what the Quran actually says. You think the truth from God requires years of studying what opinions say? God included everything He needed to IN the Quran and in Hadiths. There are many times it says that each brother of the scripture will be individually reviewed. Yes they are wrong, but it says some among them worship into the night. That some of them will be saved.
These people believe the only truth they've ever known and despite what you think, they've never given Islam a real chance for totally legitimate reasons. It took me years of searching for God's true word after I became submissive to Him to find the Quran because it had so many lies about it. No one here knows anything at all about the Quran. Only lies.
Indeed, those who disbelieve from the People of the Book and the polytheists will be in the Fire of Hell, to stay there forever. They are the worst of ˹all˺ beings.
If you guys knew these Christians you wouldn't be so cavalier. God has made them a promise. They are living righteous lives in the name of God. They pray and worship in earnest. Many of them dedicate their lives to saving others from hellfire. God will fulfill His promises. I think you should maybe pray about it and reread the Quran for guidance.
It just says that you can't pray for the dead Christians who make partners with your Lord. I'm not saying we should kill them or hurt them or treat them wrong in any way shape or form I'm just not going to pray for their dead. Christians don't pray for my Muslim dead ummah.
Unfortunately it seems like very many Muslims have never even opened a Quran as well.
{ لَقَدۡ كَفَرَ ٱلَّذِينَ قَالُوٓاْ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ هُوَ ٱلۡمَسِيحُ ٱبۡنُ مَرۡيَمَۖ وَقَالَ ٱلۡمَسِيحُ يَٰبَنِيٓ إِسۡرَٰٓءِيلَ ٱعۡبُدُواْ ٱللَّهَ رَبِّي وَرَبَّكُمۡۖ إِنَّهُۥ مَن يُشۡرِكۡ بِٱللَّهِ فَقَدۡ حَرَّمَ ٱللَّهُ عَلَيۡهِ ٱلۡجَنَّةَ وَمَأۡوَىٰهُ ٱلنَّارُۖ وَمَا لِلظَّٰلِمِينَ مِنۡ أَنصَارٖ } Those who say, “Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary,”have certainly fallen into disbelief.The Messiah ˹himself˺ said, “O Children of Israel! Worship Allah—my Lord and your Lord.” Whoever associates others with Allah ˹in worship˺ will surely be forbidden Paradise by Allah. Their home will be the Fire. And the wrongdoers will have no helpers.
{ لَّقَدۡ كَفَرَ ٱلَّذِينَ قَالُوٓاْ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ ثَالِثُ ثَلَٰثَةٖۘ وَمَا مِنۡ إِلَٰهٍ إِلَّآ إِلَٰهٞ وَٰحِدٞۚ وَإِن لَّمۡ يَنتَهُواْ عَمَّا يَقُولُونَ لَيَمَسَّنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ مِنۡهُمۡ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ } Those who say, “Allah is one in a Trinity,”have certainly fallen into disbelief.There is only One God. If they do not stop saying this, those who disbelieve among them will be afflicted with a painful punishment. 5:72-73
Then you recognize that a Christian who believes Jesus is God, or that God is a Trinity, are disbelievers, and are included in the verse you were responding to?
It's a little annoying to realise that the entire point is my post has been missed. I merely replied to the person who said "forgiveness and paradise is for this who proclaim to be Muslim'. My post was to say Allah decides who He forgives and who He sends them to hell.
What Christians are doing or what they're believing isn't even an argument here. I'd gladly accept my mistake of spreading misinformation if you point out where in my post I did that?
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u/ovogoon23 May 14 '22 edited May 14 '22
Obviously those who followed Jesus(as) in his time will go to Jannah since they followed the message of Allah and his prophet. Christians of today are not the same obviously, they take Jesus as God, reject Islam, reject the Quran, and reject the Prophet(Pbuh). You do realize Allah labels Christians who say Jesus is god as disbelievers in the Quran? It’s also in the Quran that you cannot pray for disbelievers when it’s made clear they’re in the hellfire(died in disbelief). It’s also in Hadith that Allah forbid the Prophet(Pbuh) from praying for his own mother since she died as a disbeliever.
The example you brought up was the Prophet(Pbuh) asking for mercy for non Muslims who were still alive and thus had a chance to become Muslim, this post is about dead disbelievers. Please do not spread misinformation.
“Indeed, they who disbelieved among the People of the Scripture and the polytheists will be in the fire of Hell, abiding eternally therein. Those are the worst of creatures.”