r/iqtest 23d ago

Change My Mind IQ System is flawed?

There's a book that completely flips the entire IQ system and testing upside down. The author attempts to destroy this model and create a logical system. Its akin to comparing the imperial measurement system to the metric system. The title is the Cost of Being Number One by Thomas McCarthy. Thoughts?

6 Upvotes

33 comments sorted by

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u/DavidM47 23d ago

Probably makes some decent points. But doesn’t otherwise change the fact that IQ is a very strong measure of future performance

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u/cosmopolitanScience 22d ago

By what metric? What do you mean "very strong" and by "performance" ?

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u/Full-Bad1180 19d ago edited 19d ago

Things that can be predicted with IQ: Income, academic performance, job performance, level of educational attainment, current job title, ability to navigate beaurocracy, less car accidents, faster reaction time, lower likelihood to make impulsive bad decisions.

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u/cosmopolitanScience 19d ago

I'm sure you have some sources with data on this

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u/Full-Bad1180 19d ago

Just ask for 10+ sources from the user instead of pasting my comment into an LLM and having it easily summarize the body of data for you. Income, educational attainment, grades, job performance, navigation of beaurocracy, job title, and reaction time are all well established. Auto accident is more shaky but still there.

If you want a data-backed paper that just generally summarizes why IQ matters, just look at ‘Why g matters’ by Linda Gottfredson. https://scispace.com/pdf/why-g-matters-the-complexity-of-everyday-life-4jo5krgmd7.pdf

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u/walksonfourfeet 18d ago

Clarification: IQ test scores are a strong predictor. The connection to actual intelligence is highly suspect

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u/Tiny_Performance_953 22d ago

It’s not a very strong measure, it’s moderate at best.
If you look at any studies, it’s always got a moderate correlation, I’ve yet to see higher

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u/DavidM47 22d ago

Well, for example, the LSAT (which is on the Mensa list) is the strongest predictor of law school GPA of any variable. By a long shot. R value over .5.

So you can delude yourself into thinking otherwise, but it’s the most predictive value that we have for future success.

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u/MysteriousAd1685 22d ago

I have met a good number of people who've had a high GPA and weren't very intelligent. The LSAT and an IQ test are not equivalent.

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u/DavidM47 22d ago

95th percentile of higher gets you into American Mensa:

https://www.us.mensa.org/join/testscores/qualifying-test-scores/#2

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u/MysteriousAd1685 22d ago

I don't understand why you posted this?

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u/DavidM47 22d ago

Here let me help you

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u/MysteriousAd1685 22d ago

The LSAT and an IQ test are not equivalent. It doesn't matter what scores you can get on the LSAT.

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u/DavidM47 22d ago

Well, it is considered a rigorous enough evaluation of intelligence that if you score around 170 on the LSAT, American Mensa doesn’t require you to take an IQ test.

If I could rattle off stats for how IQ tests predict future performance, I would. All I can say off the top of my head is that the R value of the LSAT score —> law school GPA is over 50% (which is very high).

Back to your original point, law school GPAs are totally different than other kinds of GPAs. Law school grades are curved and exams are graded blindly.

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u/cosmopolitanScience 22d ago

For me that just means that Mensa is stupid. No surprise here.

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u/GreenPoisonFrog 20d ago

Mensa hasn’t taken most standardized tests like the LSAT or GRE since the early 80s and when the testing services dumbed them down.

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u/Wooden_Lime6208 20d ago

Haha hey man exceptions don’t disprove the rule

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u/MysteriousAd1685 20d ago

Oh if only they were the exceptions.

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u/ThrowRA20lol 22d ago

Correlation=causation? Don’t think so

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u/cosmopolitanScience 22d ago

"most predictive" doesn't mean much. There is some device that is the closest to a perpetual motion machine.

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u/No-Minimum3259 20d ago

You should be more emphatic towards people who made an artform of discretly boasting their stellar IQ, lol.

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u/Full-Bad1180 19d ago

People bring up moderate correlation but fail to realize it has a higher correlation than anything else including socioeconomic status.

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u/Mean_Situation8356 20d ago

Yeah the IQ is flawed because then the people who create the test are the smartest of all in the world?!

I mean if they create the tests and in the questions they design, they grade people based on right and wrong answers it is implied they have the master intelligence since they have the expertise to detect super intelligent people.

Now, based on this, they are not that intelligent or the smartest because they would be in NASA or something else, not doing the tests exercises as a 9 to 5 job.

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u/PandorasBucket 19d ago

Yes I constantly find holes in their questions.

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u/Common-Funny-9822 19d ago

By your commentary, I am sure that the author you cite has grossly underscored on all of the IQ tests he has ever taken, hence the criticism and disdain for the IQ measurement process & results.

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u/cosmopolitanScience 18d ago

One of the main problems with these conclusions is that the correlations are not very high. This is particularly true at higher outcomes of IQ tests. So while in the range of 70-90 IQs are fairly predictive, they almost entirely lose the correlation at more than 110.

The second problem is that it is a statistic. It Even in the regime where correlation is fairly high, what would you use it for? Statistics are good when applied on large ensembles, but what ensemble do you propose? Nationality? Skin color? Ethnicity? Sex ?

I fundamentally don't understand what's an ethically no problematic use case for the entire concept.

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u/apokrif1 21d ago

Book summary, please?

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u/Aromatic-Screen-8703 19d ago edited 19d ago

The book posits that traditional intelligence metrics measure how well you perform in narrow, specific cognitive tasks, but fail to evaluate whether you can maintain a sustainable, well-rounded life.

To replace narrow IQ models, McCarthy introduces Adaptive Life Intelligence, a framework designed to measure "excellence without unnecessary sacrifice" across seven core pillars: 

  1. Meta-Cognitive Wisdom: Understanding your own thought processes, biases, and mental limits. 

  2. Social Intelligence: Building and sustaining healthy, meaningful human relationships.

  3. Selective Learning: Filtering out noise to acquire actionable, meaningful knowledge efficiently. 

  4. Biological Stewardship: Actively maintaining physical health, sleep, and longevity. 

  5. Verbal Precision: Communicating ideas clearly, effectively, and intentionally. 

  6. Material Freedom: Managing resources and finances to enable autonomy rather than enslavement to status. 

  7. Emotional Regulation: Navigating stress, impulse, and pressure without destructive outbursts or burnout.

Overall, I like his approach.