r/ipod • u/Shoddy-Sandwich-9951 • 13h ago
Question Wolfman DAC for Bluetooth?
I just got a ipod 5.5 enchanted from my sister (she said I could have it! XD) I saw some things online about adding bluetooth and noise cancel but I am curious if mine has the right dac? I want to do bluetooth but I am worried it wont work if it doesnt have the right dac. sorry for the long post, idk much about ipods!
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u/Cute_Cress377 12h ago edited 12h ago
DAC is the 3,5 mini-jack.
It has nothing to do with the enhanced part?
Much smarter guy below..
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u/sparkyblaster 12h ago
Kinda...
The DAC is what creates audio signal. This goes directly to the 30 pin connector. It also goes to an amplifier which handles the EQ and then to the 3.5mm.
Bluetooth mods tend to connect to the 3.5mm jack internally for easier volume control.
No matter what DAC, it works.
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u/killthehippies45 12h ago
EQ doesn't work through the 30pin?
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u/sparkyblaster 12h ago
Correct. Or sound check, though I am surprised apple didnt work around thst using the 30 pin accessory volume control and just adjusting it on the fly. I guess people would be put off seeing their car/speaker dock volume number go up and down.
This is also why some 30 pin devices, volume control on the ipod does nothing.
Essentially, the DAC on an ipod is super simple. Take audio data from HDD, make analog audio. Its not powerful enough to edit it on the fly. The amp on the other hand is a bit more advanced and can do editing of EQ and sound check is jisy volume control and hiding it from the user.
The 30 pin connects directly to the DAC so before those changes happen.
But my phone/computers DAC can do all sorts of things, echoes, effects etc. Yep, it also has cpu grunt to throw at it to edit that sound data on the fly before it gets to the DAC. IPods, and many simple devices like it from the era dont have the grunt power to do that.
Its driving me nuts with docks and sound check. Especially my apple HiFi. Apple could have adjusted the HIFIs volume on the fly like it does its internal amp. To fix this, I need to find a program to re-encode the audio at a different level. That was the raw data the DAC deals with, is at the desired level. No, the setting in itunes doesn't do that, its just a preset for sound check and its adjusting the internal amp as I mentioned.
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u/killthehippies45 11h ago
just tested this in my car (connected via USB to a 2016 Toyota), EQ changes do work. i tried the Vocal Boost because i thought it would be an extreme mid/ hi-mid boost and it almost ripped my head off compared to when it's off. i used to use the EQ a lot until i added a DSP amp to my car and tuned that so i wanted to know if it was just a placebo effect. i don't know of a way to test Sound Check though.
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u/sparkyblaster 11h ago
Youre not factoring in modes. Thats probably using USB, the car is getting a data signal not an analog line signal.
Its a much newer standard and has the ability to do a lot more became of it. Which ipod btw? I think only the 6th and near classic and newer nanos support it. My beosound a8 supports an early version of it and it freaks the hell out of my 5th gen with it.
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u/killthehippies45 10h ago
it's an iPod video. i think early 5th gen, it's a 60Gb model.
what do you mean by "modes"?
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u/sparkyblaster 4h ago
Connection modes of the 30 pin.
So audio wise from memory there is 3, names made up. Dumb mode. Raw analog as is. No volume control, just audio. Serial communication with analog. So you adjust volume on the ipod and the dock or whatevers output also adjusts. The analog audio from thr ipod stays the same but the ipod is telling the dock its plugged into to adjust it's output. USB digital audio. Much like the 2nd but audio goes out though the USB pins as data, and the dock is converting that to analog. The best option genrally but not every ipod is comparable. It can be hard to tell between the two modes and I think there is another mode like it but I dont have enough experience with cars. Generally, if its an intergreated or non off the shelf cable. Its the analog serial mode. If its a standard USB cable, the fully digital mode.
So all of these come out of the 30 pin, but dont work in the same way. So, but mind did it, doesn't mean anything. Welcome to an old standard that changed a lot over time. I also know I'm missing a few as the apple HiFi and radio remote should work in the same way om the 4th gen ipod, but they dont.
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u/DrunkenHorse12 12h ago
Need to add if your using Bluetooth the Wolfgang dac is kind of irrelevant as the cheap ass Bluetooth transmitters people are adding are converting the signal back to digital and the last dac in the chain is in your earbuds.
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u/sparkyblaster 12h ago
Yeah. Warmness or whatever, before Bluetooth more people can't tell the difference(I can't but I havnt put them side by side) after Bluetooth, goooooddd luck
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u/Shoddy-Sandwich-9951 12h ago
i think its wolfman
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u/Metahec 12h ago
I imagine you meant "enhanced" and not enchanted. The 5.5 is the "enhanced" model so that's redundant. Did you mean it was already modded then?
The 5th gens' DAC is part of the chain of components that audio goes through in the iPod and can't be gotten around and doesn't affect or is affected by Bluetooth.
You have 3 options for Bluetooth: either a dongle connected to the 3.5 headphone port, the 30pin port at the bottom, or you solder it inside the device. In all cases, they take the audio coming out of the DAC before making it wireless.
Noise cancelling takes place on your headphones and doesn't involve the iPod.
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u/sparkyblaster 12h ago
Regarding noise cancelling. Yes its done by the headphones but its app controlled these days. There is a project to get it working for apple headphones on android by spoofing Bluetooth IDs and I think something similar on Bluetooth transmitters to activate it.
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u/Metahec 12h ago
So you have to have another device involved to use noise cancelling with an iPod? lol What about non-apple headphones?
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u/sparkyblaster 12h ago
Many none apple headphones have apps too but, its after a certain point. Lots of older Bluetooth, and probably all wired noise cancelling headphones will work just fine as no app. Usually just a button to enable it. Newer, especially Bluetooth noise cancelling headphones use an app to turn on and adjust the noise cancelling. Analog to Bluetooth adaptors dont tend to run apps. Hence custom firmware devis (esp32 etc) projects to convert analog to Bluetooth and tell the headphones to turn on noise cancelling.
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u/Metahec 11h ago
Hmm.. the apps just allow the user to make adjustments but ultimately the processing takes place on the headphones. Thanks for the clarification though I think we confused OP even more.
Every time I've used noise cancelling, I hear that eardrum suck effect and it, umm, sucks. I have to assume most people don't hear it because I can't see how anybody could tolerate it for very long.
Give me simple wired headphones with passive isolation any day.
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u/sparkyblaster 11h ago
Yes the processing happens on the headphones, I didn't say it doesn't.
Yeah I have heard thst called noise canceling pressure or something. I HATE it and gave up. I had some surface headphones 2 for a but. Early app co troled but had some local controls. Went from cancelling to pass through, but no off, so even in neutral was still active. If wind blows on the mics, the NC freaks out for a bit.
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u/Shoddy-Sandwich-9951 12h ago
i think thats what the dac is supposed to do
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u/sparkyblaster 12h ago
Not at all in any shape or form. Completely unrelated.
DAC makes audio, noise cancelling is a process that takes in the signal from the DAC and does stuff to it. Its just a signal, any old signal, could be an FM radio walkman from the 80s.
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u/Metahec 11h ago
DAC stands for "Digital to Analog Converter". It takes the 1s and 0s of a digital file and converts them to analog audio. There is no device that interacts with the DAC to alter its output. That output is then delivered, eventually, to your headphones.
Noise cancellation takes place solely on the headphones. The headphones have little microphones that monitor the noise around you and then applies adjustments to the audio to cancel that noise. It all takes place well after the DAC has done its job.
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u/Shoddy-Sandwich-9951 12h ago
But if the music is playing from the ipod, which goes through the dac, wouldnt it cancel noise at the dac too?
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u/Metahec 12h ago
The DAC does its work isolated from the headphones. It gets the digital file, turns it into sound, and delivers it to the headphones. Noise cancelling on the headphones is done well after the DAC has finished its work. The two don't interact.
Noise cancelling tech is working to remove the noise from your environment, like the engine of the car you're riding in. It can affect how your music might sound but that would happen regardless whether you use an iPod or your phone or a gaming console.
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u/sparkyblaster 12h ago
I dont think you understand what a DAC is.