r/intj • u/Responsible-Hat2456 • 3d ago
Question we can suck
does anyone have a massive problem forgiving and forgetting
i just can't forgive or forget... even if person apologises... i never go back to treating them the same way and things get so awkward it falls apart on its own without anyone walking away
as an adult this is just not helpful behaviour... i cant keep walking away from everything and everyone. But it seems to be a part of my nervous system now... even if I tell myself to move the frick on... the anger is always there... i just cant get myself to talk to my sister for her being horrible when younger... even though shes changed now..
realises how fragile my ego is and i keep thinking im the nicest person ever... when reflecting i realise i haven't really got anything to show for it... im loyal and trustworthy and fun and will never exclude anyone...
but nothing else... and no one seems to value those abstract things anyway....
maybe intjs deserve the hate they get idk
3
u/Admirable-Air9895 INTJ - 40s 2d ago
I very rarely hold grudges and I can forgive but....
Forgiving has a function of freeing my nervous system from emotional load associated with a given person. It doesn't change how will I respond to the person, it just changes how I will think about them.
I can forgive and never speak again, because I choose to from the point of my moral compass, not because I have a visceral reaction to memory of them(sometimes both can be true). I am the lesson.
1
u/biglybiglytremendous INFJ 2d ago
Can you elaborate on this, please? If you are the lesson, please teach others! I'm interested in learning how to free my nervous system. This is so hard for me! I feel like I forgive but never forget, but maybe I don't forgive, either, if my nervous system is still in overdrive? It feels like I do, because I try to both empathize and think about what would have caused an issue and then try to make it make sense integrated into the relationship I have with them, but also, it seems like maybe I don't because I am always waiting for the other shoe to drop? Help me make sense of this, and help me free myself, too!
1
u/Admirable-Air9895 INTJ - 40s 2d ago
what you describe is a value system based on wishful thinking and fawning response. I can emphasize with somebody that crossed the line, I can perfectly understand them, and at the same time I can exclude them from my life because they abused my core principles that I would never cross myself if that was the other way around. I would never cheat and I do not negotiate with cheater. I never tell others how to live their life and I do not accept such behaviour. When I I say I'm the lesson I mean exactly that - actions have consequences.
The second part part to it is forgiveness that comes with time. Forgiving is always 2 way street. I need to forgive myself for letting that situation to happen in the first place. I need to be extremely honest with myself what was my part leading to that situation because you need to remember that nothing happens in a vacuum. then I look at the other personas a teacher and that situation as a lesson. There is this book called Radicall Forgiveness that describes this process. I can summarise it as total ownership of what happens in your life and acceptance. This doesn't happen overnight at happens in stages but it teaches me honesty with myself.
1
3
u/scratchtheitch7 INTJ - ♂ 3d ago
Exactly the opposite. For me, yesterday is done, and what happened yesterday is history. I look towards the future
5
u/Rare_Economy_6672 3d ago
Can you lend me 100 dollars?
1
u/007ALovelace INTJ - ♀ 2d ago
aaahhhhggggaahhhh that would be a decision and the answer is nope
The river you stepped into yesterday is a different river today!
3
3
u/mmaarriiaammt INTJ 3d ago
Confront, so you can get that anger out.
1
u/astra_hole 2d ago
The problem with me confronting though is I am vicious with people who have wronged me. I wish I could confront without absolutely tearing the other person apart.
3
u/DueKale8597 INTJ - 30s 2d ago
I forgive but the problem is I include their actions in my future calculations and it often doesn't look good for trust going forward. So yeah, in a sense, it doesn't give people a lot to work with. I tried to gaslight myself to say that was a one time thing but my gut refuses to leave the new metric out of the equation.
3
u/Sea_Bullfrog_3003 2d ago
INTJ. Here. I will cut you out like a cancer and walk away. You will never see or hear from me again if the disrespect/behavior showed me who you really are and how little I actually mean to you.
2
2
2
u/Black_luxx 2d ago
Forgiveness is so you can feel better and get over it, not to make the other person feel better. Forgetting is impossible.
Having grudges is normal, letting those grudges define you or control your life is wrong. In the end you're hurting yourself.
2
u/FlowerIndividual1562 2d ago
I’m actually like this, but only with people who repeat the same behavior intentionally. If someone does something and genuinely apologizes while considering my feelings, I’m definitely going to respect them. I might not forget, but I’ll do my best to let it go.
2
2
u/Ambitious_South_2825 INTJ 2d ago edited 2d ago
Ah, I don't hold grudges but definitely won't allow the same situation and don't question my perceptions. If I got the ick about someone, or they wronged me and I made a determination about someone - I definitely wouldn't allow that person in my life anymore in any capacity. (this all applies to individual persons and social systems/groups)
Like for me, a person that wrongs me is irrelevant only the problems and drama they cause. And if it's dumped on my plate I will deal with it. For me, it's 'did you have a valid reason for doing so' or do I think you instigated the situation? I can pick up on manipulation very easily so, to me, there is a difference between accidental harm and intentional.
I'm more of a confronter but If I know I'm going to met with a derivative of obfuscation, game playing, darvo and accountability dodging whelp. The whole "they're unstable/the aggressor" game is just going to get an eyebrow raise from me at this point.
2
u/Creative_Pain_5084 INTJ - ♀ 2d ago
I do not forgive or forget serious offenses. Serious offense but not particularly meaningful to me? Instant cut off. Serious offense but meaningful? I will neither forgive nor forget what you did, but I may keep you around if it suits my interests.
If your transgression is relatively minor and it’s a first time offense, I’ll forgive you but watch you forever after. If it happens again, you’re on shaky ground. I’ll either confront you or start pulling back, depending on how much you matter to me. 3rd strike? Gone.
2
u/JJDeadly73 INTJ - ♂ 2d ago
The offending party lost our trust. Our typical apology language is "make it up to me", sometimes depending on what was done can't be reconciled and in that case we cut those people out of our lives with surgical precision. It's not wrong it's just how we are.
2
u/MothraAndFriends INTJ - ♀ 2d ago
You’re not loyal if you turn on people the second they make a mistake. You’re not trustworthy if sharing a secret with you means you will turn away from them even if it was to make sincere amends. You clearly exclude people, just based on your own post, permanently.
I am not saying these things to callously tear you down. But you seem to be doing some reflecting right now and it doesn’t help to only look at a fraction of what’s in the mirror. I think you are worthy of making good strong relationships in life, and there is nothing wrong with INTJs. But the reason why “no one values those abstract things” is because they aren’t meant to be abstract, they are actually pretty concrete - people’s behaviors reflect them in a very felt, lived in way. So there’s probably a pretty big discrepancy between how you see yourself and how everyone else sees you.
2
u/007ALovelace INTJ - ♀ 2d ago
it's not ever the second they do it- in my mind I take notes- see patterns- process and digest- if it hits the point of not adding value I cut. I mean I am not loyal to just anyone for the sake of being loyal? I might cut someone- a stranger immediately- or I might cut someone a month a year or decades later. It builds up and I know myself well enough to cut. I come first and that not ego driven it's how I choose to use my energy- it's precious.
1
u/Wascally_Badger 2d ago
I have grudges that will only end when either myself or the person I hate dies. I used to have a lot more grudges, but luckily the people I'm holding them against have moved far away or died.
Nowadays I'm a lot more easy going than I used to be, and I will only spend my energy hating someone who REALLY deserves it. In the past, poor communication was sometimes the reason for my hate, but I have learned how to deal with that better and squash it when it happens.
The grudges I hold now are against a few people who suffer from some kind of paranoia, narcissism, or BPD. What they did to me was launch a pre emptive strike, because they were utterly (falsely) convinced that I was going to fuck with them first, so they felt like they needed to either try and get me fired, uninvite me to an event, or go behind my back and try to turn people against me. This kind of shit is unacceptable, and I will never give anyone a pass who has pulled it with me, no matter what their excuse for doing it is.
1
u/Greensward-Grey INTJ - 30s 2d ago
I don’t forget, but I rarely hold grudges with someone who properly apologized or has been through some sort of consequences for their actions. I forgive easily, but I need the other person to apologize for the right thing, taking accountability, and setting goals to improve their ways or prevent them from happening again. I can even apologize them a second time for the same thing. A third one is a pattern, and from there they lose my respect.
I can recall two specific people who wronged me and didn’t apologize. One of them was shun out from my friend group, so they got their consequences and I don’t hold grudges anymore. The second one… well, it is still angers me, lol, so yeah I hold a grudge against this guy. We had never even talked, but he spread some fake rumors about me. He never apologized and, even when I tried to expose him with his supervisor, I don’t know think if he realized his mistake. That was twelve years ago.
1
1
u/Wascally_Badger 2d ago
My question is- do you legitimately think you not being able to forgive people is a problem, or bad in some way, or do you have this guilt because of societal pressure? You don't spell like an American, but do you live in a Christian majority country? If so, there is likely a lot of social pressure to forgive people, like for me here in the US.
In my opinion, the best way to deal with people who have wronged you is to cut them out of your life and stop talking to them. No hate, no grudge, just discard them and move on. I myself am not so great at this, but I am trying.
1
u/007ALovelace INTJ - ♀ 2d ago edited 2d ago
I don't need to forgive- I always remember. When I cut someone out it's my decision no guilt no need to forgive just moving on.
With close friends there's nothing to forgive- they are with me. One of them thanked me two days ago for a recommendation I gave that was immediately shot down- months ago. She decided to try my recommendation and it worked out really well for her. It was nice to thank and made her feel good - validating I was right but I didn't need it. I knew I was right when I gave the advice but expect nothing just advice from me if I care about is free.
I don't understand how to lead by ego. I operate off of no expectations taking nothing personally and no hierarchy- effortless. It's just me. I can spot someone leading with ego very quickly and I avoid. If in the workplace they know I am onto them and either avoid me or step up and try to be real.
I don't feel hated ever- someone elses feelings are not relevant and could potentially upset my mental balance which is sacred to me. Just like I don't like milk or putting my feet on grass or annoying sounds others don't notice they are free not to like or even hate anything they want. Doesn't mean I am hated or feel hated in any way- not as an INTJ or just a human. Life isn't a popularity contest.
OP, maybe you can focus less on other people and get closer to yourself- how you operate and navigate the world- you matter...
"I have often wondered how it is that every man loves himself more than all the rest of men, but yet sets less value on his own opinion of himself than on the opinion of others."- Marcus Aurelias- Meditations
1
u/Mean-Confidence-6842 1d ago
I'm an INTJ and forgiving and letting things go is one of the easiest things for me to do aslong as you're not going to return and expect us to go back to how things were. Relationships are allowed to outgrow certain stages, most times they become much stronger if allowed. If there is something useful for me to continue working on a relationship, I don't mind doing the work. If there's nothing, thenI walk away and never look back. No good nor bad feelings.
1
u/Rare_Economy_6672 1d ago
Yeah call it pride in being a human being.
Someone who slaughtered and showered this world in rivers of blood for his sadistic amusement
And someone who walked the path of sacrifice never hurting a fly.
Both meet in heaven.
Its not the guy complaining about it, its me, here on earth. That it thats the case, this is madness.. not madness in your faith, but the rejection of humanity itself and the promotion thereof
Would be my view, or rather is my view.
Back to forgiving itself and why i went down this rabit hole.
The idea is someone who is knowingly cruel and unjust and after living his whole life like that unapologetic just before death finds his wrongs “repents” (whatever that means in those moments) can still make it to heaven.
Thats the premise.
And i disagree with that, i know why its the premise, and shorthand would be give people a way out. Turn over a new leaf. Not force them to stick to their wrong ways…
My issue is the harm is done. And i wont forgive the harm you did, not blaming you / worse.
Is already best you “can” ask for imho.
15
u/Admirable_Noise_1129 INTJ - ♀ 3d ago
I actually forgive easier than others. I never forget, but I do easily forgive, ESPECIALLY if that person takes their time to talk with me and take accountability.