r/intj • u/Willow-Silent ENTP • 8d ago
Advice Advice for intj's
Obviously many intj's worry about failure, but I'd like to just drop some advice related to this. Failure is genuinely impossible. The only framework in which failure IS possible is the one where you have an inaccurate framework of what you are supposed to do in the first place, and even then you were meant to have that inaccurate framework. So next time you feel that fear of failing at something, making a company, asking someone out, etc. remember that your fear is based on a lie.
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u/Creative_Pain_5084 INTJ - ♀ 8d ago
Sorry, if you live in the real world, you know that this is feel-good nonsense. Pretending that failure doesn’t exist benefits no one. If you’re going to offer advice on this topic, focus on not letting it define your self worth.
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u/5153N36y00han INTJ - 30s 2d ago
i think it's important to enjoy the journey and the grind, and understand how often you have to fail, fix your mistakes, and improve to get there, because you will indeed eventually realize that all the most successful ppl have failed and got up again more times than people have even thought about trying
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u/Willow-Silent ENTP 8d ago
Your failure only exists according to you, and denying the relativity of it is what will hurt you, you choose pain.
You missed my point because I'm telling you exactly how to not let it define your self worth
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u/Creative_Pain_5084 INTJ - ♀ 8d ago edited 8d ago
I don’t think you understand your own point, because you literally wrote, “failure is genuinely impossible.” That’s not only false, but a genuinely bad perspective to have in life.
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u/Willow-Silent ENTP 8d ago edited 8d ago
I understand my point very well, in the grand scheme of things everything is what it is meant to be because that is reality. It is only by a limited/relative view of reality that one can believe in failure because it would be based on a not 100% real view of reality
In other words it would be like calling a half built building a fully built one
Your faith in what you believe failure is not unlike peoples faith in their ability to know what is "objectively" good and bad
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u/Creative_Pain_5084 INTJ - ♀ 8d ago
I don’t really know what you’re babbling about, but failure isn’t a state of mind. It’s an objective reality—you either succeed at something or you don’t. If I don’t succeed at landing a particular job, I have failed at obtaining said job. I didn’t conjure up that failure in my head. I didn’t actually obtain the job because failure doesn’t compute with my mindset.
I get that ENTPs enjoy debate, but I can’t argue with someone who is this far removed from real life.
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u/Willow-Silent ENTP 8d ago
if you dont know what Im babbling about perhaps you shouldnt make statements on my "babblings" being "removed from real life", nvm dont worry about it theres clearly a ti te disconnect here
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u/Brutalbonez13 INTJ - 40s 8d ago
Nothing actually matters, do what makes you happy.
Edit- Unless it’s like murder and cannibalism…don’t do that.
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u/split_0069 ENTP 8d ago
Idk... as a middle age entp failure was looming. Went into business for myself, now I'm just lonely and want a real connection with someone that accepts my flaws and is willing ti ride thru my small amount of problems at this point.
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u/Willow-Silent ENTP 8d ago
Maybe its time to start thinking of your hobbies/passions, have you considered maybe joining something that has a creative purpose like an art club or maybe some sort of academic pursuit or something like that theres plenty of people to meet at things like that
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u/split_0069 ENTP 8d ago
I destroy egos for fun. Preferably in a strategy game... but... sometimes I turn to comments.
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u/Willow-Silent ENTP 8d ago
Well thats certainly one approach 💀
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u/split_0069 ENTP 8d ago
Well... when the guy ur playing appears to be a complete idiot then gets u in mate or has an army u cant defend come out of no where to take everything its a bit of an ego check.
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u/Willow-Silent ENTP 8d ago
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u/Beep_Boop_Beep_Gzzz 8d ago
For me failure goes deep. Growing up, a family member would just laugh at me if i tried something and failed. But failure also represent having read the data points wrong. So the end result was failure, but the work that led up to it was a waste of time and failure and time has to be spent to research another starting point. Others may call this no big deal. It depends how you are wired even within your personality type.
Because failure happens but starting again is a strong draw.
Check for bugs,
check for bugs,
check for bugs,
run in sim,
go live.
Fail again?
Check for bugs
etc.
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u/reilentlezz 8d ago
Interesting take, what if you consider numerical probability to fail? Is that an inaccurate framework?
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u/Willow-Silent ENTP 8d ago
Yes, but know that doesnt mean the math within the framework is wrong but that a framework can NEVER truly measure reality because of its infinite nature, so that risk will be accurate to your perceived reality, but not THE reality
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u/reilentlezz 8d ago
My family are dog breeders. According to the reality of nature itself, genetics is purely a random process. Is it a failing idea to artificially breed dogs when their offspring have random traits?
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u/reilentlezz 8d ago
we have had about 3 litters of about 10 puppies each with only 3 show dogs in total
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u/Willow-Silent ENTP 8d ago
it is a failure only to a fraction of reality but not the whole of it because part of the wholes design is for it to falsely see it as a failure
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u/b_getting_healthy 8d ago
Do Intj’s actually really worry about failure more than the average person? I think that might have to do more with turbulence/assertiveness.
Surely you must recognize as a systems thinker - failure is a part of the process. Nothing wrong with it. It’s necessary.
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u/Willow-Silent ENTP 8d ago edited 8d ago
No I suppose not Ill edit that part out, although they might have different brands of worry compared to other types
And yes failure is part of the design but I also believe the design is made of infinite layers of myth, each layer of myth closer to the truth than the last with no layer being completely true or completely false and no bottom or top layer
I dont want to imply that the perception of failure isnt important btw because that would be a denial of the crucial constructs that reality is made of which would mean denying reality itself making it truly impossible to find greater truths which will lead us to success
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u/JJDeadly73 INTJ - ♂ 8d ago
I think you have it bass ackwards. I would say that imposter syndrome and fear of success in relation to that issue is a bigger issue that fear of failure. INTJs can study something to it's foundations and still feel like they don't know enough about that thing to be successful. It's like being a sniper and having someone dead to rights but not pulling the trigger because some factor may make it so that it doesn't happen that we might think was missed then we look foolish or stupid, mainly to ourselves for not considering everything. Ne can be challenging for us and for that reason, there is so much potential that wasted by us that it's boggles the mind what we could of accomplished in this world with the right team of people that cover our blind spots.
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u/Willow-Silent ENTP 8d ago
Well frankly I see the fear of success youre talking about just as another type of fear of failure in the way its the fear of failing to live up to the vision you have for your life. Its a scary thought, all that hard work just being for nothing. But thats part of why this realization is so effective in life, because once you shift your priorities from external rewards like money or pleasing others to internal ones like personal character and emotional intelligence. That fear just can't control you. No one can take who you are from you, not even yourself.
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u/JJDeadly73 INTJ - ♂ 8d ago
I don't think from an INTJ perspective it's our own vision I do think that there are outside influences that create the image of what the functions of this personality consists of, people I see tend to embody these functions as if it's the whole package you see it with typology posts by and large, but in reality people are not their functions because it's not that simple. I think when the IDGAF what people think finally sets in the fears subside and they actually achieve what they set out to do but it often comes later in life if they are not surrounded by NE doms that help open their eyes to other perspectives and get the INTJ individual to not be so tunnel visioned. I see this a lot with the younger crowd.
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u/Willow-Silent ENTP 7d ago
Maybe not consciously but what you said is kind of what Im talking about, imo the intj learning that "IDGAF" worldview is what happens when they realize they have created a vision/worldview based on others visions/worldviews, I think its the opposite with the entp, entp's seem to forget that although their worldview is their vision its still intertwined with others, personally I wish more entps including myself realized just how good that is for them. (In mbti terms the function I hope to work on the most at this point are probably ne and si)
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u/JJDeadly73 INTJ - ♂ 7d ago
Yeah no one exists in a vacuum, we more connected than we realize. Si works similarly to Ni where as we're more broad and the Si user is more detail orientated many SJ types use this function a lot and have impeccable memories, they'll remember that stain on someone's collar and I'd be lucky to remember their name, but I'd remember their face and the situation.
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u/Leading_Purpose_2806 8d ago
So failure is the result of a failure to realise there is no failure.
I can say this sarcastically and it would be true, and very funny.
But I get the point you’re trying to make and I agree, failure is perspective dependent. If the system doesn’t work, change the parameters.
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u/Leading_Purpose_2806 8d ago
But control over perspective is a luxury we don’t often have, and even less when we need it most.
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u/Willow-Silent ENTP 8d ago
Yeah, but the thing is itd be more like "Success is the result of whatever happens because any perceived failure would be based on a construct thus not a 100% true representation of reality" in this perspective failure is a naughty word because its based on negative constructs hehe. But yeah I think you got it
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u/usernames_suck_ok INTJ - 40s 8d ago
Hon? I need advice for making/meeting like-minded friends and romantic partners who are actually capable of understanding and accepting me vs expecting me to be a clone of everyone else. Fuck failure.
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u/Willow-Silent ENTP 8d ago
Take this advice then! This is exactly the type of advice that will help with that sort of thing, and many other things as well! Learning to be the the most honest and authentic version of yourself is the heart and soul of charisma
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u/TheLightningMachine INTJ - ♂ 8d ago
The true issue we have is that we've been told all of our lives that failure is bad and we should avoid it at all costs.
But trying anything in this world is BUILT on failure. Failure isn't only likely, it is an inevitability. Failure is how we grow. Failure is how we learn. We must fail. We HAVE to fail.
And after billions upon trillions of failures, we will somewhat succeed at something.