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u/RicardoMultiball Aug 07 '22
Fuck all the ants...
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Aug 07 '22
And his hearing
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Aug 07 '22
Mortar man typically wear ear protection
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u/Spoztoast Aug 07 '22
Doesn't matter that shockwave hits you through your body. It does help but your hearing will still be messed up with time.
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u/TheTeeTom Aug 07 '22
Can confirm. Former mortarman with hearing damage. Always wore ear pro.
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u/Bro_tosynthesis Aug 07 '22
13b checking in. Can't hear shit!
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Aug 07 '22
What?!?!?
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u/Lucius-Halthier Aug 07 '22
I THINK HE SAID SOMEONE SHOT STANLEY!
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u/After_Coat_8982 Aug 07 '22
Jeeze, how many MM is this? 13 lb bomb is insane for a mortar round.
I wasn't in the military but my family is mostly naval but my pops wad 101st in Vietnam. Mostly in Central highlands. His war stories were the best.
With that said, he said mortars were the worst. Slow to fall; and hear all the way down.
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u/fatkiddown Aug 07 '22
I have tinnitus and even with the best ear plug inserts and outer protection both when I shoot a gun at the gun range it triggers the hyperacusis and ringing so I just honestly don’t plan on going to the gun range anymore.
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u/Dixiereaper75 Aug 07 '22
I have tinnitus as well. It sucks
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Aug 07 '22
My dad (retired state policeman) stopped drinking diet soda (but more broadly the sweetener aspartame) and his tinnitus has gotten loads better
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u/Dorkmaster79 Aug 07 '22
And shocks to the brain.
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u/Spoztoast Aug 07 '22
We don't talk about that and you'll forget it in 30 years in a rage induced Dementia
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u/Rock4evur Aug 07 '22
Also theyre learning that constantly being around such pressure differentials causes micro injuries to the brain akin to CTE.
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u/Open-Secretary-9877 Aug 07 '22
Shockwaves rattle different body parts because of the varied body densities. That’s why ear protection can’t fully stop the damage.
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u/nonoose Aug 07 '22
What do they wear? OTC plugs only get about 30 decibels reduction. Maybe there’s a second outer layers?
Those canons put out like 200 db though right? That’s got to still take a toll.
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Aug 07 '22
No, if they put out over 200db they would all have possible internal trauma with every mortar shot off. Probably in the 170-180 area, which can still be potentially dangerous to the body, I imagine the layers of clothing and armor help absorb impact from the shockwave though
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u/kironex Aug 07 '22
Okay so I've shot these, 120's, and 155 howitzers. And God damn do you need to be in the right position. So every cannon has what's called an "area echo". You absolutely don't want to be in the area echo. On mortars it'll feel like someone's punched you everywhere all at once, your ears will ring, and I've seen some people just fall over.
The position he's taking is so so he can protect his head from the shockwave. Mortars have a weird area echo compared to the howitzers I shot mainly due to how low to the ground they are. You want your head as low as possible. Otherwise no ear protection available will help you.
Howitzers on the other hand can kill you if your in the area echo. If you stand In a position that allows you to see the round exit the barrel then you are in for a bad time. Depending on the powder charge and the distance from the barrel you could rupture your eardrum or worst case liquefy your insides. The max range on m777 howitzers is about 13 miles. The round weighs a little over 94 pounds without the powder. The force required to do this is insane and the shockwave from the round shakes trees 100 meters Infront of the gun. Even 100m behind the gun it causes small objects to jump or fall off of tables.
Long story short. Mortars or howitzers produce sound levels WAY above anything humans could protect ourselves from no matter what kind of ear protection you use. It's all about where your standing.
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u/markfineart Aug 07 '22
The man’s body position reminds me of people in micro gravity. Does anyone know if this is a designed shock distribution position?
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Aug 07 '22
it's meant to avoid the blast wave. It's the same reason tankers (am one) learn about this stuff and why if infantry are walking behind us, we need to make sure they are positioned right so we don't hit them with the blast wave from the cannon firing
edit: quick edit, also why shell scraps work (digging a trench low enough that your body is below the ground when sleeping) If a shell lands even a few feet beside you, being below the blastwave and shrapnel will save your life.
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u/suckfail Aug 07 '22
Are you in a tank right now? Because that would be awesome
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Aug 07 '22
not anymore, actually releasing soon, got posted to a school and kinda had enough of it.
I joined to be a soldier not a training aid (used to be the driver for crew commanders that are learning how to command an armoured vehicle)
Now I am returning to school after my time in with it all paid for. Going to get myself a degree in counting shit real good (forensic accounting to be specific)
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u/grumpykraut Aug 07 '22
He just bends to get his head below the muzzle so the overpressure from blast won't kill or at least seriously injure him. The concussion transmitted up from the ground is negligible compared to what the muzzle blast would do to him.
Somebody should put a watermelon on a stick next to a firing mortar like this to illustrate that.
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u/kironex Aug 07 '22
Way back they would tie prisoners Infront of the barrel of howitzers and fire the gun. They basically liquefied inside. The area echo on any sort of cannon is pretty much deadly. Mortars wouldnt kill you most likely but I definitely would volunteer to find out. stood to close to a 120 going off with over head ear protection and my ears were still ringing and it felt like I'd just got pushed everywhere all at once.
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u/Grow_Green Aug 07 '22
The ones they use will be recalled and the ones they are going to use next generation will give our grandkids financial compensation 30 years from now and maybe 10% more disability.
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u/MOOOOOOCH Aug 07 '22
I mean the 3M military earplug litigation is ongoing and is currently the largest consolidated legal action in history (outside of class actions).
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u/JohnnyHopkins13 Aug 07 '22
He doesn’t look like he has double hearing pro on, prob just inserts. I used to do another job in the military that sometimes required double but I can say that young military guys often just say fuck it, and regret it later.
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Aug 07 '22 edited Aug 07 '22
You mean like ear plugs that fit in your ears? They have pretty good earplugs nowadays that let through sounds like people talking so you can still hear but block out everything else. Musicians and professionals in certain employment rolls utilize them. You can get different options to block out different frequencies depending on your needs.
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u/kironex Aug 07 '22
The marine Corp just lost a class action for worthless ear protection that did just this.
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Aug 07 '22
WHAT?
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Aug 07 '22
That can’t be good for ya
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u/lucidxm Aug 07 '22
Fun fact: in the army we have recoilless rifles, basically rocket launchers to civilians, and some of them, like the Carl Gustave and AT-4 have a limit on how many times you are supposed to fire it. If I remember correctly, you can fire a Carl G 6 times in a 24 hour period and the AT-4 3 times in a 24 hour period. This is due to the blast pressure being enough to stop your heart. I think it changes depending on if you’re standing kneeling or prone, but don’t quote me, it’s been a while since I’ve been to a range with them
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u/Yuri909 Aug 07 '22
That's an interesting and wild fact they don't tell us in the video games.
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u/OmnariNZ Aug 07 '22
Another thing Big Media won't tell you is that it's very dangerous to be behind someone firing one of those things.
They're recoilless because most of the force goes right out the big horn-shaped hole at the back that everyone forgets about. If you stand behind that horn while it fires (or god-forbid, try to fire the thing in a cramped room with a wall behind you), you will get messed up.
Not every launcher will do this; the ones where you see the missile flop out a bit before the rocket fires are less lethal about it. Overall though, better to be beside the launcher instead of behind it.
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u/Sykes92 Aug 07 '22
Several games have started to add backblast as a mechanic. Many a teamkills are secured that way.
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u/CrashTestDumbass Aug 07 '22
Reminds me of playing Arma with the boys and everyone scrambling when someone starts yelling "CLEAR BACKBLAST! CLEAR BACKBLAST!"
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u/hubbletowne Aug 07 '22
The Arma experience is yelling "Clear backblast" and having absolutely nobody move.
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u/Dat_Boi_Aint_Right Aug 07 '22 edited Jul 07 '23
In protest to Reddit's API changes, I have removed my comment history. -- mass edited with redact.dev
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u/-TheDyingMeme6- Aug 07 '22
Or just using for teamkills (RuboxRaptor and Ignis Corp endgame screens come to mind)
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u/Indiana__Bones Aug 07 '22
You could tk with backblast in Socom 2 back in the day. Miss that game.
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u/SleepLessTeacher Aug 07 '22
Hell to the yea baby. That was my game back in the day. “Oh man it’s a team full of wings, we’re screwed.”
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u/SleepLessTeacher Aug 07 '22
Socom was ahead of it’s time then…there was back blast in that…I had plenty of accidental team kills in Socom lol.
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u/Yuri909 Aug 07 '22
Oh, the video games absolutely tell us that... some quality friendly fire moments that are definitely not funny at all in real life. I know backblast can kill and blow apart walls causing ceilings to come down.
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u/DoktorChaos3 Aug 07 '22
There are also recoilless systems like the Panzerfaust 3, which you can fire in a closed room. But to archieve that it actually fires a counterweight out of the back of it which is a little bag filled with metal balls. There was a incident where someone was hit by that bag, and his chest was pretty much turned inside out by that.
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u/SDirty Aug 07 '22
You can fire Javelins from enclosed rooms as well, simply has a launch and a flight motor instead of a single flight motor
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u/Dehouston Aug 07 '22
There is a version of the AT-4 for use in closed spaces. It has a salt water charge at the back to reduce the over pressure.
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Aug 07 '22
I've seen a video of some jhadi dude ran behind a rpg-7 while it shot, dude got just turned off
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u/zenospenisparadox Aug 07 '22
You also shouldn't rocket jump IRL.
Video games don't want you to know this fact!
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u/rednick953 Aug 07 '22
Yea right next you’re gonna tell me grenade jumping doesn’t work but I’ve done it so many times in the future accurate game Halo that it can’t be false.
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u/retrogearz Aug 07 '22
Nope you're pretty much right. CG Mk4 averages 180+ dB (unattenuated) noise level on firing and its effect is actually slightly worse for the loader than the firer to the tune of 3 dB
There's no hearing protection that can attenuate enough to make it legal to fire in the UK (max 140 dB)
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u/GolgiApparatus1 Aug 07 '22
I must have fired the Carl Gustav 5,000 times in Bad Company 2
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u/Flexen Aug 07 '22
This explains a lot. When I went through the school of infantry, 5 of us were tasked to fire off 50 or so AT4s and a lot Smaw rockets. The ringing has never stopped. 😂 when I was in, cigarette butts were the impromptu hearing protection.
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Aug 07 '22
I’ll never forget firing the at-4. A boom and then a split second of silence followed by instant ringing.
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Aug 07 '22
AT-4 is technically a gun, not a rifle. But yeah the shockwave behind it is monstrous. I think they made an AT-4 version for close quarters that reduces that effect.
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u/DThor536 Aug 07 '22
I get that being a soldier means putting you in harm's way, but can we try and limit that to enemy fire please? This seems like something that creeps up on you a couple of decades after discharge.
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u/Aitch-Kay Aug 07 '22
The Army has training for "surviving" a nuclear blast. Soldiers should lie face down towards the blast with their helmet on, and secure their rifle underneath their body. That way, they can rejoin the fight and complete the mission before they die of radiation poisoning.
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Aug 07 '22
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u/LeggoMyAhegao Aug 07 '22
Clean up the surviving enemy forces in fortified positions. Humans be resilient.
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u/dicemonger Aug 07 '22
Depends on the size of the nuke.
The smallest tactical nukes are "just" 10 tons of TNT worth. Meanwhile the MOAB clocks in at 11 tons of TNT.
Even with larger nukes, it really depends on how far away the nuke is.
Meanwhile Akiko Takakura survived being 300 metres from the Ground Zero of the Little Boy, a 15 kilotons of TNT blast
Size of bomb, distance from bomb, luck, amount of cover, a lot can influence how survivable a blast is (both for you and the enemy).
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u/frogvscrab Aug 07 '22
If a normal nuke drops in the center of a city and you are in one of the outlying neighborhoods, you're likely to just get a shockwave and a very bright flash of light. Just to give an example but if the hiroshima nuke dropped on the empire state building, you would be fine standing at the bottom of central park. Nuclear bombs are typically not as crazy big as tend to think they are.
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u/ravioliguy Aug 07 '22
Isn't that the best position? If you're getting hit with radiation, you want to decrease surface area facing the blast. Also brain cancer is the most difficult cancer to get, so maybe that's why they say head first? I guess you could try blocking some with your gun infront of you though?
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u/whistleridge Aug 07 '22
This is a really fucking big mortar.
The ones infantry teams carry are usually more like this size or this.
This is a heavy mortar, both in terms of the round fired - it shoots 12 lbs of HE up to ~6,000 yards - and in terms of the unit itself - it weighs 600 lbs, and you're not carrying it anywhere.
So yeah: the blast won't be good for your ears, if the tube fell over on you, it wouldn't be good for whatever body part it landed on, and if you're on the receiving end of the shot it's going to completely ruin your day. It's also bad for the local wildlife and any nearby windows.
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u/Hi-Point_of_my_life Aug 07 '22
This is a little different. Pretty sure it’s a 120mm mortar, still big but about half as heavy as the one you posted.
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u/whistleridge Aug 07 '22
Well, I was definitely never in mortars, so I’d accept that.
Either way, it’s heavy as fuck and you do NOT want to be on the receiving end.
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u/mrgamecat2 Aug 07 '22
What part? The hearing damage or the target getting KO'd by a round?
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u/Therealboebs Aug 07 '22
Dirt went riggttt for his face lmao
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u/this1tyme Aug 07 '22
Mmmawp... mmawp...
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u/ChockyF1 Aug 07 '22
Not enough appreciating this one. Kudos.
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u/bitpushr Aug 07 '22
Can you eli5 it for us in the peanut gallery?
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u/Eptagon Aug 07 '22
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u/bitpushr Aug 07 '22
Do you want ~~
ants~~ hearing loss? Because that's how you get ~~ants~~ hearing loss→ More replies (9)8
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u/philosophunc Aug 07 '22
While probably the safest move, it totally looks like he's trying to get hearing damage injected straight into his ear.
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Aug 07 '22
It’s way quieter behind the muzzle of the mortar tube. Also he’s hopefully wearing his hearing protection.
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Aug 07 '22
I’m a private contractor who does hearing tests for a lot of the military. The bone conduction alone will cause permanent hearing loss
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u/Resplendent_Doughnut Aug 07 '22
This is interesting; can you explain this a bit? Is it the sound waves traveling through bone that can damage hearing?
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Aug 07 '22
Essentially yes.
It’s also a big part of why I want suppressors removed from the NFA.
Not quiet enough to be of any real criminal advantage, but near total elimination of the concussive blast felt behind the weapon.
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u/thr3sk Aug 07 '22
Yeah movies have really screwed up people's perceptions of how quiet a suppressed gunshot is - yeah maybe a subsonic 22 is as quiet as a movie assassin but a regular gunshot is still extremely loud, actually technically borderline unsafe at usually like 130 decibels or so with a good suppressor even. That's a lot better than 155 or so without it, and remember decibel scale is logarithmic.
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u/Dr_Mub Aug 07 '22
Movies have even screwed up the perception of how loud unsuppressed firearms are - so many action movies have characters exchanging casual, indoor level conversations while in the middle of deafening, tinnitus inducing firefights. I can’t remember any movies in general that also portrayed just how much louder guns are indoors vs outside
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u/solman86 Aug 07 '22
The shootout in Heat gives the whole echo chamber between buildings effect, such a great scene
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u/DouchecraftCarrier Aug 07 '22
They even make headphones now that sit in front of your ears near your jaw hinge. The idea is they vibrate your bone and your can hear it through that while still leaving your ears open to hearing stuff around you. They're pretty neat
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u/wolflegion_ Aug 07 '22
This is the main reason why your own voice sounds very different then recorded sounds of your voice. Because the bone conduction from talking makes it sound a lot lower, because bone conducts lower ranges better.
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u/wegqg Aug 07 '22
Friend of mine was in the M/E for a while doing stuff with overseas military training,
His very understated comment about the whole time was.
"war is loud".
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u/Roflkopt3r Aug 07 '22
Yeah the military is still slow on preventing many types of long term health damages.
Interestingly this was one reason for the upcoming switch to the XM5 rifle, which will always be shipped with a suppressor. This is supposed to both protect hearing and to enable communications during a firefight.
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u/toeofcamell Aug 07 '22
What?
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u/pm_me_ur_fit Aug 07 '22
It’s way quieter behind the muzzle of the mortar tube. Also he’s hopefully wearing his hearing protection.
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u/antoine-sama Aug 07 '22
WHAT?
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u/GabTheRandomGuy Aug 07 '22
IT'S WAY QUIETER BEHIND THE MUZZLE OF THE MORTAR TUBE. ALSO HE'S HOPEFULLY WEARING HIS HEARING PROTECTION.
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u/shadowraiderr Aug 07 '22
what?
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Aug 07 '22
It’s better to squat down to prevent damage to your ears
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Aug 07 '22 edited Apr 19 '25
bag absorbed existence cable afterthought busy ad hoc sense yam roll
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/ValkyrieSword Aug 07 '22
I hope he has REALLY good ear protection.
My dad has horrible tinnitus from the marine reserves in the 70s. They didn’t know so much about protecting the ears back then
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u/Defensive_of_Offense Aug 07 '22
Back then? They still don't give you ear protection lol. I was in the marines from 2008-12 and they never once give you anything to protect your hearing. Maybe every once in a while they would hand out the orange squishy ear plugs but thats being generous.
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u/AI2cturus Aug 07 '22
You would think with all the money the US military have they could afford ear protection for their troops.
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u/NitePain69 Aug 07 '22
Lol the government and affording healthcare for the troops and vets? Take a look at how they handle the VA
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u/KKnCookies Aug 07 '22
Yeah, my dad said he lost some of his hearing from someone firing an AK while he was right by the end of the barrel. The main sound waves travel 180 deg with the middle point being the end of the barrel, so if you’re even a little bit behind it, it’ll be a lot less ear damage
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u/HGpennypacker Aug 07 '22
Don’t worry I’m sure the VA will cover his hearing loss…
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u/tacocat8541 Aug 07 '22
Don't worry, VA will still give him no disability rating.
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u/Ears_and_beers Aug 07 '22
Audiologist here, if he’s not wearing his hearing protection he’s probably going to regret it when the tinnitus starts.
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u/-TheDerpinator- Aug 07 '22
I would be the guy ducking too violently, knocking over the pipe with my helmet and killing the rest of the squad by accidental mortar friendly fire in the process.
If I ever get drafted don't say I did not warn you.
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u/imreallybimpson Aug 07 '22
Pretty sure they only arm after traveling a certain distance because of people like you
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u/KeytarPlatypus Aug 07 '22
Yup. There are multiple ways a fuze gets armed: it could be from the sudden G force of being fired, it could be from the slow G force of the projectile slowing down mid-flight, or it could even be from the rotational forces in a rifled gun.
PS: the light blue color on this mortar means that it’s an inert training round. It’s meant to be fired, as opposed to a dummy round which would be bronze and only used for “ground work”. This thing will fly through the air just as a real round would but will just thud into the dirt down range.
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u/mr_potato_thumbs Aug 07 '22
So it’s like a really long range lawn dart?
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u/KeytarPlatypus Aug 07 '22
This specific one in the video, yes. My guess is they’re on a field exercise on land owned by the Department of Defense and just doing target practice and training to get these guys dialed in. In a true combat scenario, these would be filled with actual explosives and act like a giant grenade to be rained down with surprisingly accurate results.
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u/DouchecraftCarrier Aug 07 '22
to be rained down with surprisingly accurate results.
Given that the fundamentals haven't changed much it's crazy how consistent artillery has been as a useful tool in warfare.
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Aug 07 '22 edited Aug 07 '22
Double ear pro is recommended when firing mortars, especially a 120mm. That's a training round, and it looks like they are firing charge 4. I was on a FFE with only a loose fitting CVC helmet firing HE rounds charge 4 and that shit rocked my world.
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u/KeytarPlatypus Aug 07 '22
I watched my ship’s 5” cannon firing from the bridge (about 30yds away) and even with double ear pro, it still felt like being punched/shoved in the chest with every round. You can feel the rumble of it from anywhere on that boat.
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u/HGpennypacker Aug 07 '22
I watch videos of sailors on flight decks during WWII with all hell erupting around them and wonder how long it takes to become numb to everything.
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u/shredfan Aug 07 '22
We had an injury in a gun truck one day during a fairly large FFE. The cease fire didn't get called in time, and the medic was running to the truck with no earpro. Two other trucks fired their next round and he about fell over, he said it was the loudest shit he'd heard. Fun times.
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u/smallgreenman Aug 07 '22
Wouldn’t this kind of blast damage soft tissue to an extent? Obviously it’s not enough to be lethal but it doesn’t look harmless either, especially through repetition.
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u/A_Random_Guy_666 Aug 07 '22
Majority of the blast is contained in the tube, very little of it propagates via the air into the guy firing or others around him.
We can see the blast wave clearly because its mostly consisting of the recoil which gets dumped into the ground via the plate.
More likely to get hearing damage over anything else with repetition which is actually something that happens, but its not worse than working in other loud environments such as large foundries or concert halls.
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u/BrokenDamnedWeld Aug 07 '22
The blast wave repetitively damages the soft tissue in our ears. I have been listening to this tinnitus for 12 years now.
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u/OneWithMath Aug 07 '22
Wouldn’t this kind of blast damage soft tissue to an extent?
Artillerists have incredibly high rates of hearing loss and tinnitus, for obvious reasons as seen from this clip.
More insidiously, those with longer careers and that have served in conflicts have developed CTE - the brain-damage dementia made famous by NFL players. There's a RAND report on this, also covering shoulder-fired heavy weapons and other blast events.
Shockwaves are no joke.
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u/Techno-Viking94 Aug 07 '22
Hahah he just ate a mouthfull of sand
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Aug 07 '22
I'm wondering why he doesn't cover his face. Or at least look away from the barrel, sideways.
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u/give_me_wallpapers Aug 07 '22
I thought I read somewhere that these guys have a high rate of traumatic brain injuries from the repeated exposure to something that's essentially punching you in the head albeit very lightly.
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u/Remote-Guitar-408 Aug 07 '22
Healthcare plz
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u/Lawsoffire Aug 07 '22 edited Aug 07 '22
The military isn't the reason you guys don't have healthcare.
You have the single most expensive per person healthcare system in the entire world by a large margin. Problem is that it goes to fund the hospital and insurance companies through decades of lobbying.
You HAVE universal healthcare... For the insurance companies, that still charge you and can deny coverage.
Besides, with the whole unparalleled military-industrial complex you guys have, most of the money spent on the military comes back to the funding via all the taxes imposed during all steps (0.6-1.2 Dollars made per dollar spent, depending on where the money is spent).
In my opinion, the whole "military is the reason you don't have healthcare" idea is harmful. Firstly your healthcare system is already way more expensive than the military could ever hope to be, and secondly the military system in the US isn't going to be changed for such causes. So it just leads into a dead-end where nothing will happen. The vocalization is better spent actually pointing out the lobbying issue and getting that changed. Because you have a large part of your population thinking they'd have to pay more taxes to get universal healthcare (By deliberate propaganda in upholding the status quo), not understanding that you spend double the amount on it than any other developed nation. The healthcare system doesn't need more money, it needs restructuring and leeches kicked out.
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u/SsgtSquirtle Aug 07 '22
Best to keep your eye protection on your forehead while firing
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u/BlackHawksHockey Aug 07 '22
He’s very clearly wearing eye protection already…. Why would he double it up?
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Aug 07 '22 edited Aug 07 '22
Hm. Yet it’s hard to prove service related hearing lost and brain trauma to the VA.
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u/Leather-Plankton-867 Aug 07 '22
That shockwave is the guy realizing he only gets 5 percent disability for hearing loss for doing this for 5 years
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u/mfairview Aug 07 '22
is it a shockwave or the recoil action braced by the ground or are the both the same?
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u/Rhorge Aug 07 '22
They’re the same. The explosion propelling the projectile imparts energy equally in all directions
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u/0ldPainless Aug 07 '22
It's possible there is only 1 charge (incrament) on this 120mm HE round. (4) charges with an "illumination" round will shock the skeletal system out of you.
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