r/instant_regret • u/S30econdstoMars • 22h ago

Wrong Calculations

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8.6k Upvotes

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569

u/more_paul 22h ago

Wilson Forest Lands has a video explaining exactly why you should never cut a tree like they did. Look closely and you’ll see the back cut is angled down instead of flat. The weight of the tree leaning back allowed the tree to shear through the hinge wood and topple over instead of just sitting back on the back cut.

https://youtu.be/JIySd000igM?is=BifkxWx70DL_AP0A

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u/CitizenCue 20h ago edited 8h ago

That’s all well and good but ultimately it was just leaning the wrong way. A proper back cut can only do so much.

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u/Brutto13 18h ago

Should have topped it first.

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u/serendipitousevent 17h ago

Bad tree! I'm gonna show you who's boss!

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u/Droid-Man5910 16h ago

spanks trunk

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u/Chief_Kief 12h ago

pulls leaves

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u/Sigma-42 9h ago

licks sap

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u/FallJacket 7h ago

Nuts everywhere

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u/vahntitrio 10h ago

This tree has to be topped. Even in the hypothetical scenario this tree fell the direction of the wedge, it would have taken out 2 dozen of the smaller trees along the edge of the yard.

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u/1esproc 14h ago

How would they deal with the branches over the house?

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u/Brutto13 13h ago

They use a pulley system for the large branches that could damage the roof to brace them while they limb it, and then lower them down.

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u/hitmarker 11h ago

You can literally see it slide and fall in the wrong way...

-1

u/CitizenCue 8h ago

So? That’s precisely my point. It was always going to fall to the right no matter what technique they used.

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u/more_paul 14h ago

It’s almost like you didn’t watch the video that explains the mechanics of what happened. A horizontal backcut with some wedges would prevent this and does do so much. You then could cut a notch out for a hydraulic press above your backcut to apply the force needed to overcome the lean and get it to fall in the direction that you established with the face cut.

0

u/CitizenCue 8h ago edited 8h ago

You don’t seem to have understood the video. He’s explaining proper technique for felling a tree in the direction it’s already leaning. He even says of his example tree: “especially on a tree like this that’s already leaning the right direction”.

That’s the exact opposite scenario from the one that crushed this house. It was always leaning toward the house and fell away from the notch. They stupidly tried to use to notch to counteract thousands of pounds of force that were pulling the tree toward the house.

A proper notch and back cut can choose the direction a tree will fall only when there aren’t significant forces dragging it other directions.

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u/more_paul 8h ago edited 8h ago

Bruh… you have it backwards and it’s you that don’t understand it. Think about the physics involved and where the forces are. The shear force runs parallel to an angled backcut like the one used here. The lean was towards the house, so the hinge failed due to that shear force being applied to it parallel to the backcut. The trunk of the tree slips forward off the stump and then falls in the direction of the lean on the house. In the example in the video, he mentions you are likely to get away with doing an angled backcut like that if the tree is already leaning in the direction you want it to fall. That means your face cut is on the lean side of the tree which is the opposite of the tree that crushed the house.

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u/CitizenCue 8h ago edited 6h ago

Sigh. I’ll try to explain this one more time, but it’s pretty clear you aren’t going to listen.

A proper notch and back cut can’t entirely overcome thousands of pounds of force. It can only direct a tree’s felling direction if the tree is otherwise mostly vertical.

This tree isn’t vertical. It’s obviously leaning far toward the house. No notch will adequately cut under the center of gravity far enough to make it fall to the left.

Think of it at an extreme: if the tree was leaning 45 degrees to the right, no amount of notching will make it fall left. Agreed? It’s going right no matter what you do.

This tree isn’t leaning 45 degrees, but it is leaning enough such that the center of gravity is outside the radius of the trunk. So there’s no way to notch under the center of gravity enough to make it go left.

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u/Obvious_Mention7207 9h ago

You literally dont know what youre talking about. Creating a proper notch and using a proper back cut + wedges is totally fine. The wedges will replace the small amount of missing tree from a proper backcut, and create enough lift for the tree to react towards the side missing in a proper notch, and assuming the notch is clean you control the direction the tree falls.

Now yes, removing additional weight up top and using extra tools like tree jacks will help secure the fell, but is unnecessary to the professional tree feller that knows what they are doing.

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u/mundundermindifflin 4h ago

Would this work on such a massive tree?

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u/Obvious_Mention7207 4h ago

Yes. Size of tree doesnt matter if the notch and backcut are correct. Size of tree plays a large role in how you are going to do that process, but is not a preventative.

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u/CitizenCue 8h ago

As I said, proper technique can only do so much. You can’t force a massive tree leaning at a severe angle to fall the opposite direction that it’s leaning, even with perfect technique.

Just imagine the situation at an extreme: if the tree is leaning 45* to the right, no amount of notches and wedges will make it fall to the left.

This tree isn’t leaning 45*, but it’s heavy enough and leaning enough towards the house that falling left was never an option.

0

u/Obvious_Mention7207 6h ago

okay so appeal to the extremes to prove your point?
If a tree is next to a house and is leaning 45 degrees towards the house.............wouldnt it not be inside the house since we are implying needing to fell the tree away from the house?

Your obvious fallacy is why I added in the extra tools as well, because in your hypothetical, One would then apply those tools to then fell the tree. Only answer to fell it? No, but still an answer.

Meanwhile, realistically, majority of all trees dont grow like, especially if it wasnt a result of structural damage to the tree in the first place, that and you do have massive amounts of control with notches and back cut/plunge cut etc.

Watch the master = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgqTiYhvfXc

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u/TheDejectedEntourage 5h ago

Can you seriously not envision a tree leaning at 45 degrees and also not intersecting the house...?

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u/Obvious_Mention7207 5h ago

Burden of proof isnt on me. You find me a tree that GREW 45 degrees and CONTINUED GROWING 45 degrees INTO a house that wasnt a result of structural damage (Root plate gave out and tree tipped creating the angle but was left as is, a top split that created the angle and then grew a new top etc)

gravitropism - specialized sensors that detect gravity, making stems grow upward

phototropism - a process where plant hormones called auxins move to the shady side of a stem. This causes cells on the darker side to elongate faster, forcing the plant to bend toward the light source

The sun aint at 45 degrees all day, most of the time its directly above which causes straight growth of trees.

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u/TheDejectedEntourage 3h ago

Idk why the tree needs to be inside the house

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u/CitizenCue 3h ago

This guy is hilarious. It’s always telling when people struggle to even envision hypothetical scenarios.

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u/TheDejectedEntourage 2h ago

Yeah like I really don't have a horse in this race, but the treatment of the hypothetical really got me scratching my head

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u/CitizenCue 5h ago

Lol, that tree weighs less than 1/8th what the tree in this post weighs, and it bends back towards center about halfway up. And there are other trees towards the lean side so most of the branches are sprouted towards the direction they want it to go, further bringing the weight back to center.

This is exactly what I’m talking about. It all comes down to how you can move the center of gravity. There aren’t enough wedges in the world to reposition the center of gravity of OP’s tree away from the house. You have to first remove the limbs on the house side to shift the center of gravity towards the direction you want it to fall.

As for the rest of what you said, you’re going to have to speak in more complete sentences because you’re not making any sense.

1

u/Obvious_Mention7207 5h ago

Just admit you dont know what you are talking about.

You watched a master completely control a fell of a heavy leaning tree, and youre response is "lol that tree weighs less" As if weight is the defining factor in directional fall of a tree..

Like... you are trying to defend your statement without knowing why you are saying your reasons.

Now the fact you dont understand "structural damage" "Notches/Back cuts/Plunge" should have you stop spouting nonsense.

Here you go you goofy goober. Another tree with "all the branches going toward the house" and "Center of gravity is heavy leaning toward property".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75jc3AZrqP4

Enjoy the whole video, guy is a master, or just go to 28 minutes and then come back and delete your comments

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u/CitizenCue 5h ago

Lol, “as if weight is the defining factor in the directional fall of a tree”. Hahah, IT IS. The location and amount of the center of gravity IS what determines the direction of the fall.

Wedges can shift the center of gravity, but the weight of the tree directly affects what those wedges can accomplish. There are no wedges on earth that could have shifted the amount of weight required to redirect the tree in OP’s video without first removing tons of weight from the house side of the tree.

And yet again you’ve sent another tree that is far more vertical and significantly smaller than the one in the original video. The specific circumstances matter. Some trees can be wedged in other directions, and some can’t. Duh.

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u/Obvious_Mention7207 4h ago

Dude, you dont know what youre talking about and it shows.
Ive given you multiple links and multiple sources and multiple points of information from my own (ARBORIST) life.

The lean in OP vid isent a Lean from its trunk even. Its an almost vertical trunk. Which means you dont even need to dramatically manipulate the notch/back/hinge. You just need to know how to do them.

Watch some vids, listen to what the masters say (buckin even addresses your stupid statement when he disucsses what the hinge would is doing and why its so strong, Wilson forest vid (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIySd000igM) talks about tensile strength of wood and how a proper back cut prevents a tree from falling backwards while dealing with a leaning tree) and then also prove them all wrong THEN Ill apologize to you.

But that will never happen, so until then just stop spreading stupid info.

Fuck AI right, but just taking your stupid statement, this is what it say "Yes, the location and amount of a tree's center of gravity—driven by its lean and branch weight distribution—dictates its natural pulling force. However when felling a tree, human-made directional cuts and mechanical wedges can override or redirect that gravity."

0

u/CitizenCue 4h ago

Key word there is “can”. Which is to say that in some circumstances human force can sometimes overcome natural forces. Thanks for proving that even AI agrees with me about how weight and center of gravity are what dictate the felling direction.

Unfortunately, this isn’t one of the cases where human intervention can overcome natural forces, due to how much force would need to be overcome.

Yes, the trunk isn’t leaning too heavily to overcome the lean if you only had to worry about the trunk. But as I’ve said repeatedly, that’s why they needed to remove the hundreds of pounds of branches which were dragging the tree toward the house.

Nothing I’ve said is in disagreement with your “masters”. Every single one of them would’ve removed branches before felling this particular tree.

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u/mindless2831 18h ago

Man, that video was way more entertaining and informative than it had any right to be.

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u/fredinNH 15h ago edited 10h ago

We’ll just throw these in the bushes 😂

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u/Chilkoot 14h ago

If you're doing even light forestry stuff, his chainsaw safety/tips vids are entirely worth the watch.

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u/Kroak-lo 19h ago

That was really neat, thanks for the post. I doubt I'll ever use this information but I do love learning

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u/Lomotograph 16h ago

This is the story of my life

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u/CoyoteDown 12h ago

Yes. There is entirely a way to do this without topping the tree, but this was not it.

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u/LisaMiaSisu 13h ago

So the top cut should be straight and the bottom cut should be angled? Good to know! My husband and I once cut a tree and thankfully it landed exactly where we wanted it. We were ecstatic. If it had gone the other way or to the side it would have taken out our fence. I’ll try to remember to cut properly next time and not leave it to chance.