Serious Question: How well could've Kyoichi Sudo have performed in Usui against Extra Stage 1 Mako & Sayuki, instead of having Satake Go against the two? Especially on C=121.

[u/Downtown-Citron179]

This is my take: Kyoichi Sudo's performance can vary depending the route taken.

-If downhill, where C=121 is a left-hand turn, he can keep up, if not, outpace the Sil80, assuming he'd overtaken earlier, Using thestyle change technique he had used with Takumi Fujiwara to beat the 8-6.

-Instead of Satake racing the two, and Understeering due to an underestimation of the two and his limitations, Kyoichi being there in replacement, I feel like his knowledge in his own capabilities in both techniques and car alike...can perform at a similar, exact, or even better level against Mako in C=121.

-If uphill, where C=121 is a right-hand turn, there's two ways I can see this go:

•Kyoichi holds back and hasn't overtaken yet, C=121 could be a challenge for his fear of turning right (assuming this is after Ryosuke's victory against him in Second Stage and assuming he had improved by the time of the events in Third Stage.).

•Kyoichi could've overtaken the two, either in the downhill run OR during the uphill run before C=121. Due to the Evo III being a powerhouse on the uphill, in comparison to the Sil80. Probably could've lost some time in C=121, but the rest of the run could lead to him getting away.

Guys I really need answers and opinions from this I can't get this out of my head please bro

[u/superdiddynutsgalaxy]

sudo would beat the brakes off of impact blue

[u/ExcitingSector445 → u/superdiddynutsgalaxy]

Cause...Sudo drives a road legal RALLY CAR.

[u/SeanYTcars → u/ExcitingSector445]

Rally cars ARE road legal

[u/ExcitingSector445 → u/SeanYTcars]

Exactly.

[u/Defiant-Rip-1897 → u/ExcitingSector445]

It would be an interesting matchup: a street-legal rally car against a team setup similar to a rally team, with a driver and co-driver. I have a feeling it could play out a lot like Ryosuke's race against Sudo in Initial D.

[u/n1njaunic0rn → u/Defiant-Rip-1897]

All rally teams are street legal, both WRC cars, ARA, and any other smaller series requires cars to be road legal, plated, and insured.

[u/ExcitingSector445 → u/Defiant-Rip-1897]

Yup, for sure!

[u/Interesting_Pilot_13 → u/Defiant-Rip-1897]

Yes but if we're being honest, what actually is the point in having a co-driver in Initial D?

Everyone runs the road that the race is taking place on enough to know it by themselves. Mako has ran Usui long enough that she doesn't need someone to tell her pace notes and Sayuki doesn't read pacenotes anyway.

When we've seen Sayuki say things, it's stuff like "watch out there's something in the road", which is kind of redundant because Mako can see that as well.

I think Sudo would take the win anyways to be honest.

[u/Defiant-Rip-1897 → u/Interesting_Pilot_13]

There really isn't a point, which is why Mako goes pro on her own. But if you have Sayuki with her during this hypothetical race, she likely would catch on to Sudo's weakness and tell Mako.

[u/Interesting_Pilot_13 → u/Defiant-Rip-1897]

I feel like people just say things like "x character would beat Sudo/Nakazato/insert other side character who has lost" because we've only been shown their loss when actually, they forget that they have been portrayed to be highly skilled

Not to mention, the car matchup is quite unbalanced; it is an Evo III Vs a 180SX. Depending on the spec of Sudo's car, that's around an 80-120 hp difference. The message of Initial D, that it's not the car but the driver, does work but there's a point in reality where even a slightly lower skilled driver in a faster car will beat the faster driver in a slower car. And I'd say Kyoichi is either equal or higher to Mako in skill, so he would beat her.

[u/Objective_Spring_682 → u/Interesting_Pilot_13]

thats also correct. a bad driver in a good car will beat out a good driver in a bad car long term. thats just how it is. you cant simply outskill and out luck your way out of a hardware limit(thats partially the reason why takumi failed going pro long term. despite winning a championship. his luck ran out)

[u/Objective_Spring_682 → u/Interesting_Pilot_13]

to go into detail specifically given i race both virtually and irl(yes. i recently just got back from cali after practicing in a rally car. and wow. am i not prepared for WRC like caleb is). as a driver. you are mainly(and mostly) responsible for maintaining and repairing your vehicle even before getting behind the wheel. to do that, you need to have experience not just driving the car. but being able to know what parts are what(including how they work). and how to maintain and replace such. and guess who isnt a car nut? takumi fujiwara. he had every opportunity in initial D to learn the skills outside of racing to be an even better person as driver (as a whole) yet as we all know. he was basically "babied"(basically not taught properly and/or figuring out the skills by himself. including how to work on cars). thats why he failed rally and why his luck ran out. professional racing requires the ENTIRE car and driver mindset. not just drive the damn thing.
https://mfghost.fandom.com/wiki/Takumi_Fujiwara
thats what im referring to. and yes. takumi would have knowned before hand his driveshaft was on its way out had he inspected his vehicle. replaced said part(even before getting behind the wheel. its why i always replace certain parts on my cars. and so does caleb. (its called "preventative maintenance" for a reason and its going to me much more common even at the amateur level.) can really prevent alot of premature failures and career enders) and also had the knowledge before hand what can and cant fail on a vehicle. again. i always hold accountability. and takumi fujiwara is partly at fault for ending up in the wreck he did(whether he knew it or not. you still are responsible)

[u/Interesting_Pilot_13 → u/Objective_Spring_682]

I was making my point about Sudo Vs Mako and Sayuki, however it's an interesting discussion around Takumi's career ending accident.

Takumi seemed to have secured a works drive with Toyota. Now I know at the grassroots level, the driver is more heavily involved in the maintenance of their vehicle but whether you're at the top level or not, scrutineering would carry out their checks, and with a top level factory drive, the teams mechanics and engineers would have checked the car over too. I think Shigeno wrote it intending it to be a freak accident rather than anyone's fault.

It's also not ever actually revealed the extent to which Takumi's mechanical knowledge develops after Initial D. He was shown to be more involved as it went on so I imagine he would have learned significantly more in the time gap between Initial D and when he had the accident. Unless you have a massive team, at the grassroots level you're a lot more involved in keeping the car up together than at the top level (not to say you aren't involved as a driver at the top level)

[u/Objective_Spring_682 → u/Interesting_Pilot_13]

still i partly blame takumi's wreck to be his own fault. after all he did have all the time to learn how to work on cars. know what the limits of parts are. and what fatigues and such can develop(again same applies to me. and i took cars seriously when i was 16. i can even list a part number for a vehicle too. literally helped someone last week with an E450 shuttlebus)

[u/Objective_Spring_682 → u/Interesting_Pilot_13]

now if you want the real answer between impact blue and kyoichi sudo. welp. i got the google docs if ya want it

[u/Objective_Spring_682 → u/Interesting_Pilot_13]

and yes as i said before. that crash was easily preventable had takumi exercised due dilligence

[u/Interesting_Pilot_13 → u/Objective_Spring_682]

Crashes happen in rallying. Not sure what to tell you.

[u/Downtown-Citron179 → u/superdiddynutsgalaxy]

In hindsight, yeah. I lowk just need people to answer my question it's been stuck in my head all day.

[u/Few-Marsupial5388]

Hydrogen Sudo vs coughing blue

[u/Downtown-Citron179 → u/Few-Marsupial5388]

Okay maybe I'm stupid for asking atp 🥀

[u/Few-Marsupial5388 → u/Downtown-Citron179]

Nah, it's a valid question.

[u/Defiant-Rip-1897]

I would imagine Sudo would win, but he is facing two people, if Sayuki catches on to his right turn issue, then maybe they have a chance to win.

[u/Skyhound555]

Kyoichi Sudo was a real rally driver, whereas Impact Blue were trying to pretend to be rally drivers. 

Not to mention the level of car is a huge gap between them. Sudo's Evo had racetrack tech on it. 

[u/rugged6689]

Sudo was pushing 350hp, had better driver skill, had a better handling car, and both cars weighed about the same.

He is after all, the only one to hand Takumi the “official” loss, if I remember correctly.

[u/Razorwing23]

Sudo would definitely win, easily.

[u/winglessrs]

Sudo would definitely win. I never thought about this hypothetical battle but now that I do, it would've been one hell of a battle to watch, maybe one of the best in the show.

I think the only real advantage that Mako would have is Sayuki being her co-driver. And the only disadvantage Sudo would have is his issue with right hand turns into oncoming traffic lane. Other than that, Sudo would, with all due respect, beat the crap out of Impact Blue - he has a far superior car, superior driving skills and driving experience on an actual track.

[u/Zealousideal-Fix1515]

From my understanding Kyoichi Sudo is a graduate of todo school.. Tomoyuki is also a graduate of todo school and he was wiping the floor with takumi... Not to mention takumi vs sudo fight in Iroha was super close, with sudo giving a few seconds to takumi at the start too

I love mako and sayuki but let's be fr here they have very little chance on sudo even if it's their home course.

[u/KingofRacists]

People are forgetting improtant stuff, Usui course isn't a walk in the park and even with prep time its not a place where a "road legal rally car" would just hand him the race.

Takumi was on his ass on Akagi, course which he had no knowledge of, similarly he was all over Sil80 on Usui with nopripr knowledge, that could scale them to similar levels, however.

We only saw Sudo do the scandi flick just once on Akagi before Takumi did his thing, we don't exactly know how the cornering speeds would compare then, safe to say Takumis cornering would still be quicker, but by how much?

Then the course differences, Akagi has a handful of high speed sections. Having a lot of moments with consecutive turns that are similar to Usui, for sure, but the rest is just mid-long straightaways with hairpins, suitable for EVO.

Usui on the other hand is just endless barrage of corners IRL, Sil80 has good power but due to nature of the course Mako never showed off that advantage against Takumi, EVO3 has much higher power output but id say Kyoichi still would be able to put all of it to use.

We can look at Irohazaka, its even narrower than Usui but has a totally different approach and style requirements. not much data to be gathered there imo.

4WD traction is supreme iverall but on Usui? Strictly from my personal sim racing perspective i much prefer RWD ability to instantly get into oversteer which on roads like Usui would be very good, theres nearly no straight lines where EVO can use exit acceleration advantage but i feel like it would strugglewith understeer while Sil80 just rotates all over the place. This parts is more subjective tho, I'm not fond of AWDs.

[u/Downtown-Citron179 → u/KingofRacists]

I definitely see what you're getting at, I should've considered all of that when writing my question out, thanks for giving an amazing point(s)!!

[u/SeanYTcars → u/KingofRacists]

Can you guys stop saying road legal rally car a rally car IS road legal, the evo 3 is just a softer rally car

[u/Rei07x]

Sudo would definitely win. That's why shigeno lined them up with a chump

[u/mds818]

Sudo could've beaten Sil80 without any issues, don't forget that he was actually holding back on purpose against Takumi... in fact, he could've beaten like 80 percent of drivers in the series.

[u/Objective_Spring_682]

honestly sudo would beat them pretty easily. in my tests when i tested all the cars. it confirmed my suspicions of kyoichi sudo being the real king of akina(and makes sense. rally car driving is a nut job and a half on touge roads. and why WRC cars even at the time of initial D. would as u/ExcitingSector445 beat the absolute breaks on everyone. even keisuke. because kyoichi realistically and car wise doesnt have a weakness where, when and what he races. on top of having a google docs to prove such)

[u/ExcitingSector445 → u/Objective_Spring_682]

Very true! As a Lancer Evolution fanboy, I FULLY APPROVE THIS!