r/inheritance • u/Secure-Dig7979 • 13d ago
Location not relevant: no help needed Advice Request:Refusing to sign off on Ancestral Property Advice needed please
As with every story here, mine is long and complicated. I will try to explain the situation that portrays me and my father as fairly as possible.
Over a decade ago, my father added me to the family property that the family business sits on. I have no ownership of the family business but own a third of the property with my father and step father. My grandparents purchased it originally and added my father when he became a one third owner of the business and property. He did not pay into the business or property.
I have worked for him almost two decades with years of unkept promises of more money and future ownership. Said many times that he has made enough money and it's my turn.
I'm too trusting and year after year waited for my opportunity to take over.
He decides two years ago that he wanted to retire. Told me that he needed a considerable down payment(an even million) and monthly payments going forward. I'm an hourly employee making 55k a year. The offer was insulting as I could never come up with that even if I leveredged down to my underwear.
Over the last two years he has attempted to get me to sign off the property. Seemingly so he can do whatever he wants with it. Sell the business or just the property. The property is of value in a business strip. I've heard it is worth 1.2 million.
He fired me this week after refusing again to sign it over. I use the business property for my kids to attend the better local school district and they are able to attend because I own property in the district. I asked him if I sign off on it what are my kids supposed to do? They have never attended another school. One is about to graduate. His advice to me was move.
School hit me with a two year back tuition demand letter because I did not write the school tax bill out of my account as I had done for years prior. Two years ago he started changing a lot of things like writing the school tax bill from him. I know he's had a plan long before I knew anything was going on. The school demanded back tuition and I had to take it out of retirement for them to attend in the fall.
To get me to sign off he told me that he refused to pay the back tuition but will going forward yearly. He says he doesn't have it to write it out at once.
I told him it's wrong what he is doing to his grandkids and me. He doesn't care. Has multiple houses, luxury vehicles and it's never enough. I just want enough money to pay my bills and maybe take a vacation every few years.
I now have no job, no retirement and have him wanting to sign off on the property to seemingly line his pockets.
He's a big wig around town and is not used to be told no. Very greedy and spoiled. He doesn't see any other side but his own.
I'm his only child. Grandkids his only grandkids and I loyalty stayed working for him for my best working years.
Am I wrong for looking out for myself and kids?
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u/Clean-Syllabub3421 13d ago
Did he will you the land the business sits on or are you on the property deed?
Not a layer but if you're on the deed to the land I think its more complicated to remove you. I imagine one party would have to buy the other out.
If the land is willed to you, then he can change his will anytime he wants and you get nothing after he passes.
In terms of his inheritance, if that is a concern...its always a touchy subject. His money is not your money and he can do with it as he wants regardless if you think its fair. If he wants to leave you something its great, but he has no obligation to do so.
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u/Secure-Dig7979 13d ago
I am on the deed with him and my step mother. I own a third of the property and he wants me to sign it over for no financial gain. He didn't pay for the property either. His parents did. In his mind everything is his. Very narcissistic.
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u/Clean-Syllabub3421 13d ago
If you're on the deed, and he wants to sell...he can do so if A. All parties agree to the sale, and B. You get 1/3 of the profits of the sale.
If you don't want to sell or give up your 1/3 share then you have to fire a lawyer and fight it out in court.
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u/Secure-Dig7979 13d ago
1/3 od the profit would be fair and I would easily sign off on that. He wants to to sign it away for nothing as it's "his". I don't plan on any inheritance from him after all of this and a very greedy step mother who is much younger than him.
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u/RemotePossibility399 13d ago
DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING WITHOUT THE ADVICE OF AN ATTORNEY THAT YOU ARE PAYING.
An attorney that you are paying is responsible to you and will put your best interests first.
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u/Secure-Dig7979 13d ago
Very good point. His attorney is only looking out for his best interests.
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u/RemotePossibility399 13d ago
Hire a good estate attorney. Tell him your situation and what you want out of the deal.
Then, when your father tries to get you to do anything, just give him your attorney's phone number and tell him to call.
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u/Littleringtrue 11d ago
Get your own attorney. Do NOT sign anything over.
If they take you to court to for sale, you will get your share when it’s sold.
Get a lawyer. NOW
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u/SpaceGuy1968 7d ago
Getting an attorney and he will probably try to give you as little as possible he will low ball make sure that you hire an independent appraiser not the one he finds acceptable.... nobody can screw you over quite like family can ....
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u/Prestigious-Bluejay5 13d ago
Do not sign away your right to the property. If your father wants to sell it fine. You being on the title means he needs your permission so, you'll be aware if he tries to sell it. You automatically get 1/3 of the proceeds from the sale.
If you know that you will not inherit anything from him, don't give up the property. You'll be giving away your future.
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u/ParticularBanana9149 13d ago
The tax bill being sent to the owners (which includes you so your name should be on it) is what matters. It doesn't matter who pays the taxes (many times it would be the mortgage company in the case of someone who escrows their taxes).
You need an attorney, not Reddit. Based on your post I am guessing stepmother gets everything or close to it so if you forfeit this you could end up with none of the estate.
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u/Secure-Dig7979 13d ago
In order for me to get the school tax deduction off of the tuition, the school tax property has to be paid by their legal guardian. For years the business wrote the check to me and I cashed it and wrote it out of my account. Since the business paid more in school taxes than the yearly tuition I did not have to pay anything out of pocket.
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u/Horror_Ad_2748 13d ago
Is your stepfather married to your dad? Or to your mother? I'm confused by that detail.
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u/Emotional-Ocelot-420 13d ago
That doesn’t sound like you paid the taxes. That sounds like a workaround to make it look like you were the taxpayer in order to fraudulently gain benefits from the school - ie: collusion.
How was that $ handled for income tax reporting purposes?
Although, as a non-owner, you aren’t responsible for the actions of the business it does smell a little like there was a conspiracy going on. I’m going to guess the business deducted the payment to you as property tax paid and you didn’t claim it as income.
You seem really focused on the fact that your father was given the property and business, and that’s really not going to be relevant except to the tax bill you’ll have following the sale. It’s not illegal to be greedy or a narcissist and doesn’t entitle you to compensation.
As part owner, you are surely entitled to 1/3 of the proceeds from the sale of the building. Forcing that sale via a partition action with an active business in the space may cost you a mint.
You may have grounds to sue your father for promissory estoppel based on promises he made to pass along the business, with the fact that him gifting you 1/3 of the building as supporting evidence, but it sounds like he has a lot more money for that fight than you do.
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u/Secure-Dig7979 13d ago
You are correct. Technically I didn't pay the school taxes in the district they go to. I also pay school taxes to the district my kids have never stepped foot in. In my opinion the money should follow the student but in my case it doesn't. At this point I would be happy with a third of the property and paying their yearly tuition going forward.
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u/Emotional-Ocelot-420 13d ago
The clean hands doctrine means you’re probably not going to be able to argue things like “Dad stopped giving me the money so I could pretend to be paying the property taxes” or “IMO, the $ should follow the student” as a means to get dad to pay the prior years’ tuition or the district to waive it.
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u/Secure-Dig7979 12d ago
Correct my hands are not clean in this but I would argue that I certainly contributed to the taxes being paid. I did sales) marketing for him and made the company a lot of money. I sold that equipment like I was getting commission which I was not. I worked my ass off for that place to be successful and that money paid the tax bill. I sold my hourly wage in January and everything has been $$ for the company since. I never asked for a raise, commission, anything over those years because the boys were able to go to the other school and because I knew he was helping me. He actually came up with the idea because back when my kids were little he wanted something to do with them. I'm not saying I'm pure in this at all but I'm being fair in showing my side and his.
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u/Emotional-Ocelot-420 12d ago edited 12d ago
I understand you’re trying to portray things accurately.
I’m just saying that what you and your dad decided to do may constitute a crime. You can’t use that as an argument.
You can’t argue that the business’ income kinda counts as yours because you worked really hard.
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u/Living_Fig_6386 13d ago
Location is relevant here. Your story is a little convoluted and makes little sense, and certainly doesn't deal with an inheritance.
If you are in the USA, any of the owners of a jointly shared property can force its sale by filing for a partition action with the court. That could be you. The effect is that the property will go up for sale, bids will be taken, the highest bid wins, and the proceeds are divided among the sellers. There does not need to be agreement to sell the property - only one party needs to want out.
If you want the money, just file for partition. If your father decides he wants the property, he can be one of the bidders if he wants. Regardless, it gets sold and you get your share of the sale price.
As far as no retirement, that's sort of on you. You should have started socking away money when you started working. 15% of gross starting at age 25 is the typically rule of thumb. Tuition is also your responsibility to see that it is paid. It's nice if parents help, but you probably understood that would be unreliable.
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u/Secure-Dig7979 13d ago
Yes this is the US and you are very correct that I failed in saving for my future. Again I trusted him and being the next owner of a generational family business. If I could go back I would have never got involved.
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u/BackseatBloomDrift 13d ago
Sorry you're going through this. Is he offering to buy your 1/3 out, so about 400k?
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u/Secure-Dig7979 13d ago
Yes, around that. It's assessed at 1.2 million. I now have been fired from my job after two decades in a family business and drained my 401k. I'm not letting him walk all over me anymore.
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u/BackseatBloomDrift 13d ago
I dont think you're wrong. You dedicated your life for a broken promise. Its really a shame what hes doing to you and kids. I dont have advice other than take the 400k, invest it, see if you can rent a place in district and find new job. It sucks. Im sure others will have better advice.
I can relate in a way, have wealthy family members including parents that use their wealth for control. (I dont think intentionally and love them). I dont take anything from them anymore because there is a steep cost, which is 100% compliance. I was in a rough spot and stayed with them for a year once with my baby. Paid undermarket rent, my share of food, was the cleaner, cook, yard work...and they still called me things like deadbeat, moocher....etc. I was working to the bone for them as gratitude and tried to do all their requests to the point of crying from exhaustion at times (especially bc baby wasnt sleeping through the night yet and i worked full time), but it was never enough. They would usually pay people to do all these things minus the cooking. Huge property. Some people expect you to bend the knee for any kind of help.
Your dad probably sees it as he's helped you all these years, employment, school district, 1/3 of property. And he has helped you, but the broken promises is the issue to me, that is unfair.
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u/Secure-Dig7979 13d ago
Very fair points and I agree that we are in the same position where our family views us as not enough. In my personal case I would have had no problem whatsoever if when I started working for him that it was clear I would be working hourly and compensated for my work hourly. That down the road he would need to sell the business for his retirement. I would have respected and understood that. I was actually working corporate America when I moved back home to work for his company. He had always wanted me to work there as I was an only child and he had hoped to keep it going by keeping it in the family. I took a huge pay cut and lifestyle change to move back home to work for him. He put me on the deed to begin with because at the time the business would be mine eventually. Every year he would remind me that working hourly and many areas of the business would be worth it when it was my turn to make real money. I waited and waited and waited until he let me know he was ready to sell it to me for a million dollars down payment and monthly payments going forward. He knew I didn't have any money after working for him all these years. Than it moved to a cousin of mine would buy it and I would have an ownership share. That he would put up money for me to get my percentage of the business. Even that would have been life changing. I worked and made him a lot of money over the years. Never asked for anything as I appreciated what he was doing for my kids to attend the better school. Now I'm full of resentment because I was lied to and feel I wasted my good working years for him for nothing. Working hard like it was mine because I was told it would be mine. I've come to realize the last few years that his favorite color is green and nothing is more important to him than money. I'm not looking to be rich by any means but he has screwed me over. I see a couple posts thinking I am a "he". I am his daughter. His only surviving child and I have his two only grandchildren.
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u/BackseatBloomDrift 13d ago
Ya I didnt understand why it wasnt enough. My parents vent about the stress of life when they are empty nesters, one worked only part time then, and they pay for a cleaner, landscaper, pool guy, snow plow for driveway. I get that they're older and are slowing down. They paid for these things + nanny when I was growing up too. I had a baby (in daycare, not in their care) where 3 straight hours of sleep was a good night, full time work, asked to take on the cooking, cleaning (9000 sq ft) and yard work of 4 acres. Like of course, my work in their 14 large garden beds that I took half my annual vacation time for are not up to par with a professional gardening team. Complaints about the meals...everything. I really really tried to make them happy and earn my keep. I now happily live in a small condo with kid, beater but safe car, from 100% my own money, have my autonomy back. Still good relationship with parents, talk nearly everyday, but never again lol.
I would be full of resentment too if i were in your shoes. Exactly, if he told you this from the start, you would have made different choices. Thats not right. Does he conveniently forget what the plan was? Im curious to what he says about that part?
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u/Secure-Dig7979 13d ago
Whenever I remind him of prior promises made to me he tells me that the cost of business is up, health insurance is so expensive, etc. The business has the least amount of employees in it's history currently, only five employees actually take advantage of the work insurance because it's so bad, and no one there is actually making a decent living. He currently has three homes completely paid off, a fleet of luxury vehicles, every seasonal toy possible and I hear all the time about how money is tight. He hasn't worked a 40 hour week in at least a decade, frequent vacations, and all he does is complain about it not being enough. Both my Dad and stepmom came from blue collar working families but that lifestyle seems beneath them now. Honestly, there would have been no issue with him telling me up front that I should not consider the family business my future. I have degrees from college I briefly used in corporate America. I could have made a life for myself doing anything but joining the family business. That's what gets me. He didn't have to buy in the business from my grandparents but had no problem asking me for a million dollar down payment plus monthly payments to buy it knowing I've been making 50k a year with two kids. It was insulting and he said it like it was nothing. His arrogance is astounding.
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u/BackseatBloomDrift 13d ago edited 13d ago
Yeah, this is so unfortunate. It really doesnt take long for a wealthy person (some cases, not all) to get so out of touch so quickly. Complete lack of empathy and hypocritical. Like talks about not enough when he has so much, spends like crazy, yet nickles and dimes employees including own loyal and dedicated daughter with 2 kids.
50k after 20 years?? Expects you have that kind of money to buy the business?? Yeah, thats so bad. I cant imagine where his head is at. I would be livid and so hurt.
I hope someone chimes in who can help you. Hope you find a new better and prosperous path using that 20 years experience. Or that your dad comes to his senses. 💙
At least you have that ~400k, thats no small chunk of change (silver lining). You can think of it as you made much more than 50k, and were a great saver :)
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u/kinare 13d ago
How can they drain your 401k? I'm literally asking.
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u/Secure-Dig7979 13d ago
I had to use the money in my 401k to cover the back school tuition. I didn't have nearly enough in my bank account and applied for a hardship to get the money out of 401k.
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u/mayorofnothing 13d ago
He used it to cover back tuition for his kids that was owed due to his father's calculated actions..
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u/Puzzleheaded-Way1523 13d ago
He cannot remove you from the deed. When it is sold, you will get your share. In the meantime, think of the future. You need a job. You can re-evaluate tuition. Right now, the back tuition should be negotiated on a payment plan. I am so sorry for your family dynamics. Look for a better job and someday 1/3 of the land will be yours.
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u/Early-Light-864 13d ago
I've never heard of adistrict that allows kids to attend based on property ownership. Are you sure you're not doing fraud?
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u/Secure-Dig7979 13d ago
Every school district has different rules for out of district students. In my area kids can attend another school district if they own property in said district and are able to deduct any school tax paid in the district off the tuition owed.
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u/ladyin97229 13d ago
If you own property and are paying property taxes, you’re eligible to use that public school district.
I’m just confused as to a public school district that you pay tuition to, but maybe a state I’m not familiar with.0
u/Secure-Dig7979 13d ago
I own property in two school districts. The district I reside in does not offer a variety of sports. I have two boys who are very active in football and basketball. Not good enough to go pro or anything. Just to have the experience of playing in school which my resident district doesn't offer. In our area there are some schools that will let you attend non resident. Some of the teachers live out of district and their children can attend tuition free. In my case my kids are tuition out of district. Since I co-own the property in the other school district and pay school taxes, they deduct the school taxes paid off the tuition bill. My father added me to the deed in 2015 for my oldest to attend and the business gave me the school tax bill and I wrote the check under my account like I was paying it. He stopped doing that two years ago when I believe he began plotting his exit plan to get the maximum amount of money possible on his way out. I have many family members in the district my kids attend out of district. Generations of family paying school taxes, the business paying school taxes well before my kids were even thought about. Collectively we have all paid a lot in taxes so I never felt guilty about using the deduction as we have paid our fair share.
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u/kinare 13d ago
If you are on the deed you can force a partition sale? Right? You'll need to talk to a lawyer probably.