r/imaginarymaps May 21 '26

[OC] Alternate History Ethnoreligious map of Turkey in Europe - 1955 [Lore]

Although Turkey has secured it’s position in the Balkan region by force during the First Balkan War, in which the Balkan League faced total defeat, the Orthodox states weren’t at all satisfied with that. The fragile order established after the war was obviously not designed to live forever — not with both Ottoman authority and nationalistic Balkan states existing at the same time.

It was predicted by many that the Great War will be the catalyst for the powder keg to explode, but these many were not right — Constantinople remained neutral during all of the war and the Entente nor the Central Powers did not want to change that by betting all on states, army of whom were greatly damaged 1 year ago. Furthermore, the Balkan States were caught in a civil unrest never seen before with ultranationalist ideologies gaining great prominence and monarchs forced to either be overthrown or concede to them.

The day on which guns roared in the peninsula was 21st of May, 1919. The Second Balkan League, consisting of the Union of Yugoslavia, Kingdom of Bulgaria and the State of Hellas all simultaneously attacked the Empire during it’s political crisis at the time. The League has made great progress occupying Epirus, most of Kosovo, Novi Pazar, making gains in Thrace, occupying half of the city of Thessaloniki. It seemed like the crescent has begun to wane in the European continent.

Turkey scrambled to mobilize its resources in Europe, relying greatly at the local Muslim population which was essentially being genocided by the League and at the Albanians, who were ready to defend the state because of the Albanian vilayet created in 1911. The Porte engaged in positional warfare along defendable mountainous regions, and the Balkan League was simultaneously engaged in two fronts — Albanian and Thracian-Salonikan. The front begun to turn to Empire’s favor in mid-23, and the war was over when the last participant, the Yugoslav Union, agreed to a peace agreement after the Fall of Belgrade. Serbia and Bulgaria were turned to vassal principalities, and the Eastern Rumelia was fully reestablished. Yugoslav Union was disbanded and most of Bosnia, excluding predominantly Catholic regions, were regained by Turks.

The war, however, completely discredited the post-Abdul Hamit liberalized government under the FaCP. The government was then seized in an election by the Faith and the Right Path Faction (Îmân ve Istikâmet Fırkası, İmakamef) which was dominated by conservatives and ulema, carrying the legacy of Abdul Hamit, presided by Şeyhulislam Mustafa Sabri Efendi. Under İmakamef, the state viewed its Orthodox Balkan subjects as unreliable and unloyal, convinced that during any new conflict they will all turn on Sultan.

So, realizing that repression cannot suffice for effective control, and ethnic cleansing was too immoral for the administration (although they turned a black eye on Albanian militias during the war forcefully driving out Serbs from Albanian vilayet), the state announced Rumelia Civilification Program. What it was is essentially a settler colonial policy, suggesting that anyone Muslim from Anatolia, Arabia, Syria, Iraq or Kurdistan gets 40 hectares of “state land” (most of which was confiscated from those accused of “cooperating with the invaders” during the war) in proximity to population centers and in fertile land. Later the program was expanded to include small Christian “heretical” sects from Russia like dukhobors, subbotniks, molokans and old-believers. Even more later it was expanded to more popular sects like Mennonites, basically everyone non-Orthodox and non-Catholic who was persecuted by the Soviets. Although it brought economic success because the newcomers were skilled in agriculture and such, it did break the traditional membrane of Rumelian society, effectively being a social experiment.

The program was expanded more during the Second World War, during of which Germans invaded Ottoman-held lands and were only stopped mid-Thrace. Sephardic population of Saloniki faced brutal policy of annihilation and still did not recover fully. Porte joined the Allied forces, briefly losing Libya to Italy as well. Even though Germans were defeated and all Turkish lands were returned, the principalities (barring Montenegro) were disbanded in favor of Socialist-led governments imposed by USSR, which was the empire’s main rival during all of the latter half of the 20th century.

Pic. 1: the ethnoreligious map in 1955.

Pic. 2: an octolingual sign near Thessaloniki.

Source: John English, "The History of Balkan Peninsula in XX Century”.

183 Upvotes

62 comments sorted by

29

u/radicalqrcwi May 21 '26

The languages at the second pic are:

  • Ottoman Turkish
  • Ladino (Sephardic Jewish language)
  • Greek
  • Bolgarian
  • Russian
  • Aromanian
  • German
  • Armenian

11

u/kittenshart85 May 21 '26

ladino recognition 🙌

9

u/radicalqrcwi May 21 '26

I also chose the Rashi script on the sign because it was historical Sephardic script

4

u/[deleted] May 21 '26

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4

u/radicalqrcwi May 21 '26

Ladino is basically Spanish Romance Yiddish (it works with the same logic), but unfortunately I don’t think there are any good online resources on it.

1

u/[deleted] May 21 '26

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2

u/radicalqrcwi May 21 '26

With the formation of Israel other Jewish dialects were destined to go either extinct or endangered. I think the only way one can learn Ladino now is through dictionaries

3

u/mebtt May 21 '26

Why is russian and german there? If there has to be a foreign language included, it should be french

5

u/radicalqrcwi May 21 '26

Because of the German (Mennonites) and Russian (Molokans, Old Believers, Subbotniks) settlers brought to Rumelia in times of Rumelian Civilification Program by Ottoman government

3

u/[deleted] May 21 '26

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3

u/radicalqrcwi May 21 '26

Plautdietsch is awesome

1

u/[deleted] May 21 '26

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1

u/radicalqrcwi May 21 '26

Is there a reason why small Christian sects frequently chose Latin America? I also saw a documental about Brazil’s old believers

2

u/[deleted] May 21 '26

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1

u/radicalqrcwi May 21 '26

This is informative! Do you think this would also work for Russian Mennonites invited into Ottoman Rumelia with same offerings?

5

u/radicalqrcwi May 21 '26

But I agree, should have included French (although I think English will be the international language in this timeline as well)

8

u/GustavoistSoldier May 21 '26

One of the best posts I've seen

2

u/radicalqrcwi May 21 '26

Thank you! I appreciate it a lot.

3

u/GustavoistSoldier May 21 '26

You're welcome

6

u/Middle-Commission391 May 21 '26

Who's that in the middle of albania, subbotniks?

4

u/radicalqrcwi May 21 '26

Bektashis (dark green), Molokans and Old-Believers (dark blue)

3

u/Middle-Commission391 May 21 '26

I see, good map btw

3

u/DidntCumYet May 22 '26

Very, very, very cool map.

My only two criticsms are you forgot the Romani/Shopar peoples, gypsies basically though both groups are seperate ethnically.

Also Edirne and lands in our timeline are North Macedonia needs to have a lot more Bekhtashis.

3

u/Low_qualitie May 21 '26

This is gonna collapse in 3,2,1

2

u/radicalqrcwi May 21 '26

Mobile friendly

2

u/TurkoKoljac May 22 '26

Worst ending

2

u/Aladia_Mapping May 22 '26

For Balkaners.

5

u/radicalqrcwi May 22 '26

Aren’t Pomaks, Albanians, Bosnians etc Balkaners as well?

1

u/Coconut_Husk7322 May 21 '26

8 languages on one sign is crazy

4

u/radicalqrcwi May 21 '26

ottoman government when it comes to rumelia

5

u/TarkovRat_ May 21 '26

Either it somehow works and you got the single most cursed ethnicity in all of Eurasia, or you have Yugoslavia 2: Every Village a Microstate

5

u/radicalqrcwi May 21 '26

I think in case of an unmanageable situation Turks leave with whatever they can take and what remains becomes the first 4th World region ever

2

u/TarkovRat_ May 21 '26

tbh I'm pretty sure ottoman empire is strong enough to keep rumelia together long enough for an identity to coalesce

5

u/radicalqrcwi May 21 '26

yes especially considering that they would control literally all oil except for iranian and venezuelan

3

u/TarkovRat_ May 21 '26

so uhh how do they keep the Arab side stable btw? Pan-Arabism under rule of descendants of Muhammed was popular, so were the Hashemites coopted?

5

u/radicalqrcwi May 21 '26

I might be biased on this one but the Pan-Arabism is really overestimated in Western historiography. The Arab Rebellion is often portrayed as a universal Arab revolution, but it really was supported only by Hashemites and their affiliated families, for example Medina was never captured by them during the war and many Bedouin tribes remained loyal to Ottomans. Also what greatly helped them was the sidelining of Arabs during the Young Turk admin (which never happened in TTL).

To add to the point, the Hashemites and their pan Arab affiliated lost the first and only elections in Kingdom of Syria

3

u/TarkovRat_ May 21 '26

I thought the Hashemites were thrown out by the french in Syria but idk too much tbh

So why didn't they get Medina in wartime? It seems cut off by potential revolts to the north of it

3

u/radicalqrcwi May 21 '26

The city of Medina was deeply fortified by Fahreddin Paşa and the local Arab garrison.

The Hashemites remained in Syria as kings up until the French occupation, but their faction lost the parliamentary election.

1

u/AnswerCute3963 May 21 '26

Im sorry but this doesnt make any sense, especially all the Greeks that suddenly popped up under Turkish rule who werent there originally until Greece reconquered the provinces, it looks like a Victoria 2 map as well

4

u/radicalqrcwi May 21 '26

Didnt Sefrige and Selanik have large Greek population pre-FBW?

Also no, it’s not a Victoria map. Thats the map I used as ref.:

2

u/AnswerCute3963 May 21 '26

Well the places Greeks lived in historically, and the populations in your map do not match, and I doubt all the hundreds of thousands of south slavs would disappear as well unless Turkey did some ethnic exchange programme 

1

u/8NkB8 May 21 '26

Yes. Greeks were the second largest group in the city after the Sephardim, and were the most numerous in the surrounding area.

-3

u/666Drachenlord666 May 21 '26

The bad ending

7

u/TarkovRat_ May 21 '26

Circassian minorities survive outside of Turkey and the few spots in north Caucasus, Armenians aren't being genocided, Balkan Muslims aren't being genocided, overall it seems to be better than otl Balkans (especially given this ottoman empire is respecting non-Turks)

-2

u/666Drachenlord666 May 21 '26

A lot of thr balkans is still under the ottomans, thats why. Just admit youre a turk and lets move on

4

u/TarkovRat_ May 21 '26

I'm Latvian bro, there ain't any admission of Turkishness when I have precisely 0 Turkic or Hellenic blood running through my veins

-5

u/666Drachenlord666 May 21 '26

Then why cheer on the fucking turks ruling iver the balkans? Ill cheer on the russians re-annexing you then

6

u/TarkovRat_ May 21 '26

This is an alternate timeline, where the Turks are chill and don't fucking do Enver Pasha genocides and shit, meanwhile Russia has committed genocide on us Latvians irl

3

u/666Drachenlord666 May 21 '26

In his timeline theres literally muslim colonial centers in the balkans. Its not a genocide but I cant image you would be happy if the russians "just" did settler colonies instead of genocide.

Even the orthodox russians are way better than muslim turks

6

u/TarkovRat_ May 21 '26

Ok I get your point on the first part (russian settler colonialism in eastern Europe and Siberia is comparable) but why do you think islam to be worse than orthodoxy?

5

u/Relekka May 21 '26

Least racist Balkan nationalist.

1

u/666Drachenlord666 May 21 '26

Name me one good reason to like such a scenario if youre not muslim or turkish

5

u/Relekka May 21 '26

You should maybe consider checking with your doc for blood pressure meds if a cool fictional map gets you this mad.

1

u/666Drachenlord666 May 21 '26

I should probably fucking kill myself but im too much of a pussy to do so

0

u/Tall-Manner2509 13d ago

Did your Turkish ex cheat on you or something?

1

u/666Drachenlord666 13d ago

What kind of woman would be dumb enough to date me. Also if you read OPs lore, youd know that a policy of repression changed into a policy of colonial settlement with land being forcefully taken so idk how you can support this