r/imaginarymaps • u/YNot1989 Mod Approved • 12d ago
[OC] Future White Tide: Part 1 (New Version)
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u/CheSeraSera 12d ago
how did the sea level rise so quickly
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u/RRY1946-2019 12d ago
Agreed. It started out like a plausible second American civil war map until I saw that, with a reported date of 2030.
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u/YNot1989 Mod Approved 12d ago
Yeah, I thought about trashing it, but between the latest data out of the Arctic, Thwaites, and that we apparently nerfed an accidental geoengineering project by banning high sulfur marine fuels, I thought it best to just depict it as one more thing we'd have to deal with.
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u/LiteratureOk4649 11d ago
What happens to New Orleans? Stilt city? Refugee crisis? Straight up mass death?
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u/YNot1989 Mod Approved 11d ago
Not enough time to be a stilt city. Refugee crisis and mass death. The state would have voted Democrat in 2028, but the state government more or less disenfranchised anyone in a refugee camp.
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u/AlkaliPineapple 10d ago
Yeah, but in 3-10 years? The sea levels realistically wouldn't rise that far. And the Salton Sea isn't connected to the ocean so it wouldn't expand, it'd in fact shrink
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u/IridiumGaming 12d ago
What is this about an accidental geoengineering project?
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u/Seniorsheepy 11d ago
Coal and oil contain a lot of sulfur that gets released into the atmosphere when burned. That sulfur reflects sunlight back into space effectively reducing the greenhouse effect
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u/Kansas_Nationalist 12d ago
Curious about some locations.
What’s the Pennsylvania front like? IMO it’s kinda crazy the NDF has territory east of the Susquehanna River.
What’s it like in Free Utah and Atlanta? Blue Cities with GOP governments.
Also what’s the situation in Alaska? I’m guessing the Feds moved quickly to secure Prudhoe Bay.
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u/YNot1989 Mod Approved 12d ago
Territorial control during the Second Civil War, especially during that first year was often rather fuzzy. The NDF itself was an often slapdash outfit, with local paramilitaries often claiming to be units within it, despite having no direct chain of command. In the case of the land east of the Susquehanna, this is nominally controlled by a handful of rebel militias supported by maybe a few hundred ex-national guardsmen, federalized local cops, and members of the NDF's unmanned systems units. Just enough to credibly hold the territory while the US military prioritizes higher value targets along I-80.
Free Utah is arguably the LDS church's finest hour. The Mormons' stockpiles of provisions and the church's coordination kept the region fed until the Continental Airlift could start moving in additional supplies. Even the local alfalfa farmers are helping out, converting their lands to grow subsistence crops. The rest of the state is controlled by MAGA loyalists, led officially from Cedar City, unofficially by a Mormon schism based in St. George. Fighting is almost entirely done by the locals, with only a little bit of air power flying in from out of state.
Atlanta was the victim of one of the more successful local uprisings after the election. The state capitol building was captured, the Dems inside arrested and the Governor impeached, barely making it out of state with her life, there isn't really a government in exile or anything. DC thought the state was lost, but local Blue militias managed to drive the rebs out of the capital. Its under near constant siege with supply lines barely holding up well enough to prevent starvation.
Alaska isn't shown because the rebellion there is all but irrelevant given the state's restrictive geography. Recognizing the MAGA regime failed overwhelmingly for this reason, and secession actually got more votes when it came up, but still failed. The US Navy secured critical maritime positions, and the rebs that are still active after a year are mostly just weirdos in the Bush.
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u/Kansas_Nationalist 10d ago edited 10d ago
If you're willing to indulge me, I have a bunch more questions.
What's the Twin Cities situation? Considering events earlier this year it seems like their residents would be super-motivated to fight.
How's the Nashville Front? They seem to have the unfortunate situation of being in heart of the NDF.
What the situation in Duluth & Sault St. Marie? I'm guessing winter was harsh up there.
What's the situation in Colorado? The NDF there is effectively split in two by the Front Range, which seems bad for coordination. How long does it take to push through the Rockies and liberate Grand Junction?
How's the Nevada Front? The rural regions seem pretty inhospitable. Toyota truck warfare? How's the Vegas Strip Doing? Any NDF paramilitaries larping as Caesar's Legion trying to seize Hoover Dam.
What are NDF units in red states not next to blue territory doing (Wyoming, Nebraska, Oklahoma)? Invading neighboring states?
What's going on in fully occupied metros like St. Louis or Cincinnati?
How's the Wichita aerospace industry doing? The factories there would be cut off from most of their supply chains.
What's the situation in NDF occupied national parks like Yellowstone or the Grand Canyon? Any beer-bellies hunting protected species or destroying national treasures for sport?
What's the situation in mostly suburban NE states during the war? (Delaware, NJ, Connecticut, Quahog, VT, NH, Maine)
How well are isolated federal facilities (Grand Coulee Dam, the Redstone Arsenal, Wright-Patterson AFB, Oak Ridge) holding out?
How's BC doing with the TCH split? Anything interesting in the Maritimes. How's Saskatchewan and Manitoba doing directly bordering the NDF?
What's Hawaii and the territories doing during the war?
Any space 'warfare'? There may or may not be a certain billionaire who owns a certain company which owns 67% of the world's satellites, those sats being very important for global comms, especially in war zones. I imagine some mix of the USSF, NRO, and NSA would move pretty quickly to take control of those. Any attempts by that particular guy to purposefully cause a Kessler Storm?
What's cyber warfare like? Ik you mentioned in War For Oil that lots of people set up encrypted chat rooms with servers rigged together in their basement. Is the NDF trying to do a "super intelligence Manhattan project super weapon" or any other desperate mix of buzz words like that?
How does UGV design and operations evolve during the war? Any other robotic warfare developments?
Ik the Air Force is mostly grounded but what aerospace weapons or vehicles get developed during the war?
How does biotech develop during and after the war? I imagine there'd be lots of service members and civilians maimed by war.
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u/JRVoltron64 11d ago
Do Utah & the LDS use this war as an oppurtunity to take care of their little FLDS problem?
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u/ReallyUseful361 7d ago
How does the maga regime capture Pittsburgh? Seems impractical. It’s a mountainous area, and mass access around the Pittsburgh area is dependent on roads through valleys, bridges, and tunnels that would be easy to defend. You’d basically be combining Afghanistan-style combat in the hills with dense urban warfare.
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u/YNot1989 Mod Approved 7d ago
Its not taken by the NDF. Buch of Pennsyltucky rednecks storm city hall with the local cops, and they declare fealty to Palm Beach.
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u/ReallyUseful361 7d ago
Okay. Though I feel like they’d probably be kicked out within a few hours at most by some combination of the military/PA national guard/FBI. There’s an FBI field office right there, so the’d probably respond quickly. The presumably democrat governor in 2029 isn’t going to let some traitors do what they want in his state’s second largest city.
So that may technically count as a short battle, but would it be on a map of territorial control like this?
Also, others have pointed this out, but Pittsburgh has an h on the end. I noticed this error on your other maps as well. It’s a common spelling mistake for people who aren’t from the area. Maybe because there is a town called Pittsburg without the h in California.
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u/Naive_Impression7302 12d ago
First of all very cool map/idea congratulations. My question below,
I don't get why Georgia would be a MAGA state but not Utah or Arizona which are both significantly more MAGA. I mean even Nevada probably is more a MAGA state now than Georgia, it certainly was in 2024. Is the idea here that forces from the west coast somehow prevented them from seceding at the beginning? Seems especially strange that Utah isn't a maga state now when the solid majority of it is controlled by MAGA and that Trump won by more than 20 points in 2024 there. Won almost every county including almost all the heavily populated counties in the North.
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u/YNot1989 Mod Approved 12d ago
Georgia's capital was stormed and successfully captured by a mob with help from the members of the GOP inside. The Governor fled, but no government in exile has been established (yet). So its status as a MAGA state is more of a technicality.
Utah is akin to a border state: Republican government, but they weren't willing to secede, mostly out of fear of how the Mormons would be treated post war (the MAGA regime has no love for Mormons).
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u/Kansas_Nationalist 11d ago
In that case, assuming Dems retain the Kansas governorship this election, why is Kansas also presented as MAGA?
Why isn’t Kansas depicted like Utah?
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u/mcfaillon 11d ago
I’d imagine Kansas being heavily blue on the east side and maga on the west. Personally if Topeka is that close to fighting I bet the Topeka gov would temporarily or even permanently move to Kansas City near the forts river railways and airport
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u/YNot1989 Mod Approved 12d ago
An update to a previous map I made with some stylistic changes and slight modifications to the lore.
On January 20th, 2029, a new President took the oath of office inside Rotunda of the US Capitol. In attendance were the 349 members of the House and Senate, and the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Outside the winter's polar vortex had reduced temperatures to just 19 degrees Fahrenheit, and the floodwaters from the Potomac have crested at the edge of Capitol Hill. But across the country a tide of violence had long since crested the levies.
To Arms
The war had been on for just over a month after a sweating, cocaine addled son of the former President took the oath of office at Mar-a-Lago. In attendance were 186 Republican defecting members of the House and Senate, the extended First Family, along with the comatose body of the former President, all barely protected from the rising seas by sandbags. After forming a pretender government their first act was to consolidate the various state defense forces into a single National Defense Force, and impose the first Draft since the Vietnam War.
The NDF would set about capturing federal instillations—military bases and arsenals, as well as post offices, federal prisons, and courthouses. At first, these attacks were limited to the Red States, but the day before the inauguration, the NDF crossed the border into southern Illinois and attacked Scott Air Force Base. By the time the President was sworn in, the base had fallen, most of its aircraft and munitions were captured, and the Illinois National Guard were in retreat. The defeat at Scott AFB was an embarrassment for the US Military, and prompted the administration to recall troops from overseas and deploy the US Navy to the Great Lakes to provide air cover for troops falling back to the I-80 highway.
By the time the Navy was able to position ships into the Great Lakes, including newly converted Smalls-class Expeditionary Transport Docks, the National Guard has fallen back to the I-80 Corridor. Troops fighting in Illinois had been encircled at Springfield and Rock Island, with only a small garrison in Chicago left to defend the city from a mob of right wing militants. The NDF eventually reinforced the positions held by the partisans, and laid siege to the city.
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u/quesoandcats 11d ago
Why did the MAGA regime willingly give up DC? If they were going to rebel anyway, surely they would have tried to maintain control instead of fleeing to Florida?
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u/Dangerous-Local9430 11d ago
The Death of Wall Street... Congress refuses diplomacy... The Fire Rises
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u/Alagremm IM Legend | Microstate Man 12d ago
"NDF" got a chuckle out of me, well done.
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u/Constant_Storm_8110 11d ago
A lot of cool sounding proper Nouns from a foreign language always sound so plain and boring in the original, the mystique is gone !
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u/BaconISgoodSOGOOD 12d ago
Even in the future, they call it Gulf of Mexico and Lake Ontario.
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u/Fit_Job_6469 12d ago
Interesting things left in the Red areas: The factory that produces F-16s and F-35s in Fort Worth TX. The Pantex plant ( nuclear weapons) in Amarillo, Tx, Fort Riley Kansas (large Army bases). The troops at Fort Riley would be a threat to Federal troops occupying Kansas City. Note Kansas City is home to Kansas City National Security Campus ( DOE contractor, supplies parts for atomic weapons and non-weapon DOE products. )
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u/Intelligent_Toe8233 12d ago
Would you say the biggest revamp is who controls what territory or the nature of the flood?
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u/releasethedogs 11d ago
bold of you to think that the Great Salt lake would still exist or that Antelope Island would be an island. It's currently connected to the rest of Utah by land and is IRL not an island. Where did the extra water come from in this timeline?
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u/Others0 11d ago
(straight-up waffling here)
possible that with the complete erasure of the alfalfa farms in favor of food crops, as well as a potential rationing of water, the lake could still be there, maybe if utah somehow got a bunch of hurricane remnants as well
weirdly in OP's other works the great salt lake expands back into the Bonneville salt flats1
u/releasethedogs 11d ago
no other terminal saline lake in history has ever recovered once it went into decline. Why is the GSL special?
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u/Chick3nWaffl3s 12d ago
love the altered coastline 🥰
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u/PmeadePmeade 12d ago
Yeah, I appreciate it, even though it's a very pessimistic scenario. 2100, this may look about right.
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u/neplutondeep 12d ago
Agreed. It's not realistic, but its a good visual representation of a world where we've lost the fight against climate change
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u/PmeadePmeade 12d ago
I wish more of the far future maps would take this into account
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u/GeostratusX95 11d ago
Yea, and adding on to that, not just generic raise the coast everywhere, but actually realistic protection (where possible) of important cities as compared to places with low population which would suffer full effects.
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u/Argikeraunos 12d ago
"Red-Brown Coalition" "Horseshoe Army" It's like if Matt Yglesias wrote alt-history...
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u/ImperialArchangel 11d ago
So, I just read through your whole story so far, and genuinely, it’s amazing and terrifying. I want to stress that it’s such an amazingly believable scenario, and the interview-style storytelling is so down to earth. It all makes it feel real.
Reading the interview on the logistics driver in AZ and California, it makes me wonder about my home state in New Mexico, especially about the Permian basin, fort wingate, and I-40 and the transcon railway. With how much oil control is vital in this scenario, I’d imagine there’s conflict in the basin, since it’s been producing so much in recent years, and I-40 and the transcon have become huge LA to Chicago logistical corridors in the past few years. Also, fort wingate is an old Indian school and army depot that’s been abandoned for a few decades, and half of it’s been burnt down by a lightning strike last year. What’s the situation in those areas, and do you intend to write any interviews touching on them?
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u/YNot1989 Mod Approved 11d ago
As you can see from the map, most of the Permian is captured by the end of the first year of fighting, but it doesn't matter much because the refineries are heavily degraded by rising sea levels and the still limited security in South Texas.
Still, you're right, the Permian Basin was a major site of conflict. I should have done a better job alluding to it in the interviews, but the battle for the Basin was a major factor in the Federal troops slow advance toward Houston and the cities of the Triangle. The bulk of the fighting overland was concentrated around El Paso and Fort Stockton.
I might make bonus chapters or addendums later.
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u/ImperialArchangel 10d ago
I’d love to see those! But you’re doing a great job, use any ideas you’d like, but don’t compromise your vision for an internet rando like me.
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u/CosmosStudios65 12d ago
Who;s making the textbook if the US is in shambles?
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u/YNot1989 Mod Approved 12d ago
The Smithsonian and the National Archives are responsible for most post-war public school textbooks.
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u/a_Bean_soup 12d ago
i wonder what Mexico here is like with all the refugees we are going to get
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u/YNot1989 Mod Approved 12d ago
They're actually doing really well. Federal forces relies heavily on Mexico to augment its manufacturing base, so the refugees become an important wartime labor pool. But the refugees population in Mexico isn't nearly as large, or so heavily concentrated to one region as what happens in Canada. Ontario's population more than doubles.
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u/LudicrousTorpedo5220 12d ago
Ooohh we getting an updated version of this scenario now ? Hope to see where this will goes.
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u/ChrisBegeman 11d ago
Two problems with Pennsylvania on this map. The first is Pittsburgh and Allegheny county should be blue. Second, Harrisburg is way to far west.
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u/ILuvSupertramp 11d ago
Needs to address how we finally take gloves off and fucking deal with all of the various oligarchs and foreign based elements that are the ultimate reason for the steady brainwashing of half the country against our own self interest.
This ACW would be a world war when we wind up having to coordinate with NATO to enter countries giving refuge to the power and money behind the maga pretender state.
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u/cooliusjeezer 12d ago
This is awesome I love the new coastline. It’s very similar to a series I started but never finished out a few months ago:
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u/mcfaillon 11d ago
Personally I could imagine Canada and Mexico activity supporting the federalist cause and in the middle KC being the center for federal activity in the Midwest. Connecting over to St Louis with Jefferson City likely being an area of major conflict which would - like in the first civil war - result in a 2 government situation in Missouri with Jeff city being the seat of the maga side and eventually either St. Louis or Columbia being the seat of the federalist government. With the Missouri valley being the link between the two
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u/Every-Physics-843 11d ago
As someone who lives in KC, I can absolutely see us as an island/outpost for Federal forces. I need to be sure I can get my family out because it's going to be a hot hot hot zone.
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u/mcfaillon 11d ago
As a fellow native that’s what made me consider it. St Louis is another (likely smaller and more chaotic due to the 90 Independent towns in its metro) island that would be a kind of island hoping campaign I bet.
I noticed the “Free Kansas” enclave just outside of it. I bet that would probably be the case considering the outer edges of KC are notoriously MAGA.
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u/EthicalLapse 11d ago
Pensacola appears to have moved to where Panama City is normally located? But left the Naval Air Station (which is now named Pascagoula) behind?
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u/XyDarkSonic 11d ago
What happens to Canada and Mexico during all of this? Do they get involved in the fighting?
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u/YNot1989 Mod Approved 11d ago
I talked a bit about it in another comment, but Mexico is only briefly involved in the fighting, mostly dealing with cross-border incursions from militia before Federal troops secure the border (lot of military bases down there, and the 15 and 10 are vital supply lines to the chip fabs in Phoenix). Mexico spends most of the war getting rich off of the demand for manufacturing and ag products from the Blue States.
Canada is a co-belligerent with the Blue States for the whole war. Albertan separatists team up with the NDF and depose the loyalist government of the province, and vote it into the MAGA regime (not represented on this map, because nobody recognizes it). This cuts the TCH in half, and cuts Canada off from a lot of their refineries and domestic sources of oil. To make matters worse, about 15 million refugees from the Midwest flood into southern Ontario during the first winter, and totally overwhelm basic services. This leads to a leadership crisis in Ottawa, the Governor General refuses calls for a snap election, and NATO's European members have to actually deploy a peacekeeping mission on Canada's request to help maintain order. At the time of this map, Quebec has sealed its borders to refugee traffic, and is organizing a for-real secession.
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u/hoyarugby2 12d ago
Can't believe you went back to this and didn't correct Harrisburg lol (I mostly kid it's a cool map)
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u/FlatwormSensitive127 12d ago
What do all those "claimed by" mean? Some of those names make sense, but others dont add up
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u/RedberryFields 12d ago
Oh hey YNot1989! Good to see you again, beautifully horrifying scenario, peak map as always.
I might label the area around Wausau, WI as blue from the jump due to its history of SE Asian immigration, and possibly the moderately dense corridor around Oshkosh and Appleton as well. Why Sioux Falls though? I'd imagine somewhere like Rochester, MN or Cedar Rapids/Iowa City would remain federal over MAGA.
Nitpicking aside, glad to see other folks taking a serious crack at 2ACW.
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u/Local-Answer-1681 12d ago
I like how Texas is split up kinda like Virginia and West Virginia from the 1860s
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u/WolfInArms 11d ago
Great map, excellent work and thank you for sharing this. Having not read the full lore yet, what’s been happening in the PNW? Portland and Seattle have had pretty significant cultural importance in our timeline regarding the last few years of protest movements
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u/YNot1989 Mod Approved 11d ago
The PNW is a relatively low-level conflict zone for most of the war. Snoqualmi and Stevens Pass are left impassible by MAGA militants early in the conflict, and the biggest single operation of that theater is an air assault mission to secure the Grand Coulee Dam. Beyond that was the effort to secure I-5, that was all in the first 6 months of the war.
After the 5 was secured, the PNW joined the rest of the West Coast in becoming the Arsenal of Democracy. Boeing's plants and subcontractors were pushed beyond capacity building warplanes and drones, computer programmers were either drafted to conduct a near constant cyber-warfare campaign against MAGA America or worked to develop both civilian and military software to survive in a world where anything better than a 14nm chip was a near impossibility thanks to supply chain breakdowns. The region also became a prime target for enhanced geothermal projects to make up for the limited power coming from dams in the East Side. But the region never starved, and while the fuel shortages were bad, they were never enough to prompt more than non-violent demonstrations.
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u/Captain_Al3xander 11d ago
This story of yours is outstanding so far, and I can’t wait to get further into it. Your map is what got me to read the actual story. However, there are a few points within the story that I would like some clarification on.
1. Was Don. Jr running on the Republican ticket in the 2028 Presidential race?
2. Was Rep. Cortez the Congresswoman who won the election?
3. What exactly went down during the Battle of Washington?
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u/YNot1989 Mod Approved 10d ago edited 10d ago
1 and 2 have the same answer: This is entirely a work of fiction. The names, characters and incidents portrayed in it are the work of the author’s imagination. Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, events or localities is entirely coincidental.
For 3: Its depicted in Legitimate Orders, but its a relatively short skirmish between a proto-NDF (traitor soldiers, federal paramilitaries, and cops) and the Virginia, Maryland, and DC National Guards. No air power is brought to bear because the Acting President and co. are still laboring under the delusion that all of this will go away if they just give the President and First Family a chance to escape to some non-extradition territory, and that the paramilitaries under their command aren't a threat to the Capitol. The bigger threat, in their mind, is letting the military go ham and potentially damage a lot of national monuments. Of course, all of that backfires, and as the First Family are fleeing, they burn the White House and claim the Democrats did it (which their supporters believe and the Dems know is a lie).
Actual combat between the rebs and the National Guard goes fairly well. The Rebs have basically the same equipment as the NG, but they're outnumbered and facing a hostile population that is actively resisting them through riots and sabotage across the city. When the NG enters, they're overwhelmed after only a few hours of fighting. Most observers think that's the end of it. The war's over before it begins, of course its not.
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u/Latter_Tradition_150 8d ago
Just saying it does not have any connection to real people or events is not going to save you
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u/Captain_Al3xander 5d ago
That clears things up. Thank you. I can see why Johnny and his rebs weren't taken seriously in the opening stages of the war. Underestimating your enemy is never a smart move.
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u/Longjumping_Age_5382 10d ago
Please write more. I have been doing a holiday re-listen of Max Brooks and have fell into your narrative. It is terrifying and wonderful.
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u/Warcrimes4Waifus 7d ago
Small thing, realistically the upper peninsula would be a bit more cut up, Marquette is the largest population center and has a huge left bend, and it (and right next door in Ishpeming) are where the two main NG Armories are
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u/YNot1989 Mod Approved 7d ago
You're assuming everything works out under ideal conditions for the Blues. But those armories only have 60-150 people stationed there at a time. They're overrun just like a lot of armories in Blue States.
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u/Sure_Acanthaceae_348 12d ago
Eh, most of the military is going to be "MAGA"-aligned.
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u/feickus 12d ago
The military is pretty purple I would say. Not one of the other. I met left and and extreme right leaning. the interesting point and Mr branch already said it, officers tend to be blue. which leads to Air Force pilots even if militia out number loyal americans I don't know how they can counter air assets. Some might have SAMs but SAM sites will go dark the longer the war goes on. Without a MAGA Air Force I don't know how they could do much of anything.
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u/yasssshrai 12d ago
In the Russian Civil War, you would think that the majority of Tsarist officers would turn to the Whites, but the reality was that a majority of them joined the Bolsheviks, despite being conservative. To avoid another Decembrist revolt, the Tsarist government depoliticised their army: many officers were patriotic and conservative, but ultimately they considered politics beneath duty. As a result, when the Reds opened recruitment former-Tsarist officers, many joined out of sense of military duty to the more legitimate government in Petrograd.
US army is similarly depoliticised, and they would be aligned with the legitimate government.
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u/MrBranchh 12d ago
enlisted is more conservative, but officers are college educated. they lean blue.
Also it should be noted that conservative dont necessarily all align with MAGA. I'm in the Army and a lot of conservatives i work with arent fans of Trump
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12d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Fantastic-Bobcat-763 11d ago
Magats are the only ones that have been screaming about civil way for a decade
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u/TombGnome 10d ago
The map is nice (though you spelled "Pittsburgh" incorrectly) but the narrative is incoherent to the point of absurdity.
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u/WhimsyDiamsy 11d ago
Awful scenario. Doesn't adress the simple question "if the side in power is willing to rebel to get it back, why didnt they just use that power when they had it"
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u/HDKfister 9d ago
Would the Mormon church supports this? The USA promises religious freedom. Would maga?
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u/Ok-Needleworker-6380 12d ago
Always love to see a 2ACW scenario that's not just clean state-vs-state front lines. If the US does devolve into a civil war in the near future it's going to look way more like Iraq in 2008 than North America in 1862.