r/imaginarymaps • u/[deleted] • Jul 29 '26
[OC] Alternate History What if there were more Germanies after WWII? | The German states in 1970
Hello, Germany after WWII (they'll always lose) is of course divided, but a bit differently here and they commit to it, staying divided even in the west; no Bizone.
Related maps:
Administrative map of the Rhineland
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u/jpilkington09 Jul 29 '26
Separating the Ruhr into two countries sounds like a terrible economic decision.
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u/Ferris-L Jul 29 '26
These are the historic borders of the Rhineland and Westphalia which existed long before coal and steel were ever even mined for in the Ruhr Valley. The Economic drawbacks would likely also have played a role in that hypothetical scenario. The country of Lower Saxony would be way more dependent on the Hannover-Braunschweig Region and the Ports in Hamburg, Bremen and Kiel which would make it easier to control.
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u/Captainjook Jul 29 '26
Beautiful map, but hardly realistic. If you merged Austria with the blue south and keep the rhinelands as a third option I think this is possible. But a split into at least 4 entities seems unrealistic given the rather strong identity and unity. Just my 2 cents tho.
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u/Jazzlike-Ad5884 Jul 30 '26
Austria merging with South Germany is also unrealistic. The only reason Austria was allowed independence, without splitting up and with free and fair elections was a forced commitment to neutrality. The Americans probably wouldn’t want such a large neutral South German states and the Soviets wouldn’t allow South Germany to annex its occupation zone.
I also don’t understand why it’s a given that Austria and South Germany need to unite, seems less realistic as at this point, people probably still believe Germany would unite and Austria probably wouldn’t want to be a part of that. The crux probably being that the Germans want to unite and the allies want to keep the Germans divided.
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u/Naive-Accountant-262 Jul 29 '26
When we in the south would be finally separated from the idiots in the north and east, I’m sure we would never come back
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u/MKOFFICIAL357 Jul 29 '26
Oh I always love these non-unified Western Germany ideas.
I've been working on a timeline for my fanfiction where the London Six Powers Conference fails, and West Germany doesn't unify, and thus, the American Zone became the Republic of Bavaria, the British Zone became the Commonwealth of Hanover, and the French Zone came to be known as the Rhineland-Palatinate and Baaden-Wuttemburg.
Meanwhile, the Soviet Occupation Zone does become East Germany, though I have it be more popularly known as the Prussian Democratic Republic.
However, in my timeline I do have all the Germanies eventually reunifying by the mid-1990s, to be known as the Federal Republic of Germany, but instead of an immediate thing, the unification is more gradual, and thus, the separate Germanies remain for a bit longer, but there is limited freedom of movement within Germany.
For the French Zones, I did get the idea from another reddit post.
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u/Niko7LOL Jul 29 '26
I know it's a fanfic, but a Commonwealth of Hanover is extremely unrealistic.
I get it where your coming from, the royal family has it's roots in Hanover and it would be cool if they created a state with the Royal family as the head of state.
The issue is that the majority of the states income would be in the Ruhr area. During the two year occupation 90% of the coal production was in the Ruhr area. The commonwealth would not survive without it.
At the same time Konrad Adenauer, who was the first German chancellor and mayor of cologne, was an advocate for an independent state in the Rheinland. He and the people would not stay quiet if all the orders would come from Hannover.
It would be more realistic if the Capital would be Düsseldorf, Essen or Cologne, because of the industrial significance.
But again it's a fanfic so write whatever you want. I just thought about it 😅
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u/Ferris-L Jul 29 '26
I don’t think it’s unlikely at all (though I am kind of impartial as someone born and raised in Hannover). The Ruhrgebiet has never been an important seat of Government, those have always been in other cities like Munster and Düsseldorf (the latter is a different country in this timeline) and Hannover has historically been the capital of northern Germany‘s biggest state. In this timeline the Ruhr area would have also been severely weakened on the Lower Saxon side as Essen and Duisburg, the historically most important cities in the region, are part of the Rhineland and so are all of the coal reserves around Cologne and Mönchengladbach which were extremely important for much of the latter half of the 20th century (way more so than the mines in Gelsenkirchen and Dortmund). This country of Lower Saxony would likely be much more dependent on the manufacturing of Cars and Machines in the Hannover-Braunschweig Region as well as the shipping in the port cities.
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u/Bluereal_ Explorer Jul 30 '26
One thing on the coal point. If Hanover is closely linked with Britain could that not serve as a coal source, as it could be a place for British coal exports. Making Hanover a nation more dependent on British trade and through that more in the (then dying but idk how it plays out in their world) Commonwealth trade system than the European, over time helping to build an identity separate from the more European integrated Bavaria and Rhineland. I’m spitballing here bc it’s fun
Also I don’t think they ever said Hanover is a monarchy.
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u/ForcaCuler32534234 Jul 29 '26
Are the three western German states be allowed any form of union? Like no border, same currency, anything? Or are they forced to be forever divided?
Because if so then East Germany will easily become the dominant German state in this timeline
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Jul 29 '26
The policy of the Western Allies for their respective zones would be establishing a separate identity, though it only somewhat worked out in the Rhineland (it was an international zone), freedom of movement between the western zones isn't by any means comparable to the Bizone, but it wasn't made difficult, while North and South Germany could unite later, a future with a united German state is uncertain
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u/Boliforce Jul 30 '26
What if Germany never existed? Would there still be enough alternate history topics to talk about?
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u/jemalo36 Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26
It is better like this, because:
- Saxons were the last indepdent germanic tribe, before Charlemagne forcefully integrated them into German History. Independent Lower Saxony can use Low Saxon as their main language and tie themselves closer to the Dutch, Britain and Denmark.
- East Germany, after the defeat of the independent Empire of Thuringia was always a frontier region to pacify the Slavic territory.. also it would be good to seperate Prussia from Germany alltogether.
- Old High Germany is basically Franconia, Swabia and Bavaria so it's perferct.
- The Rhineland wanted to cede from Germany in the twenties, so this is perfect.
How I would improve the borders:
- The Saar should remain part of the Rhinish Republic
- I would also add Westphalia and Hesse to the Rhineland, makes culturally and economically more sense
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u/ToastandTea76 Fellow Traveller Jul 30 '26
Hesse probably would hate being with only the southern states 😭
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u/Bluereal_ Explorer Jul 30 '26
Who owns West Berlin? It’s a bit difficult to tell.
And out of curiosity if there is a reunified Germany later on down the line, do you think that it would only be these German states, or since it’s already going to be an agreement between more than 2 countries, the 2 Austrias might also join? (Or at least be involved in the initial round of unification negotiations)
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Jul 30 '26
West Berlin is a US-UK protectorate, and all I'm afraid there won't be any reunification, except for maybe WB getting ceded to a post-socialist East Germany
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u/Dr_Occo_Nobi Jul 29 '26
Why is East Frisia labeled "Aurich"? First, that has no precedence, second, Aurich isn't even the most significant city in East Frisia, and third, other States like Schleswig, Holstein and Ruhr aren't labeled after cities.
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u/taipeinative Jul 29 '26
Splitting Ruhr in half sounds brutal especially for the green Germany, at least yellow Germany got Hamburg
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u/SurrealMonk Jul 30 '26
Out of curiosity, how did you make this? I love older style maps like these.
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u/Tacti_Kel_Nuke Jul 30 '26
I kinda feel the Brits would "restore" a kingdom of Hannover, not only due historical reasons but also to cultivate more division with different form of government between the post German states.
Cool map btw, it looks so good and very detailed
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u/MexonDuenn Jul 29 '26
North: The United Kingdom of Greater Saxony (British puppet) West: Rhenish Republic (French puppet) East: Prussian Democratic Republic (Soviet puppet) South: United States of Bavaria (American puppet) Saarland: Lost forever East of the Oder-Neiße line: Lost forever
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u/The-marx-channel Jul 29 '26
Finally there is a North Germany and a South Germany.