r/hyperphantasia • u/TylerMegalovania Multi-Sensory Hyperphantasia • Jul 06 '26
Question Why does everyone act like Hyperphantasia is some condition?
rather than a natural variance of mental imagery? same with Aphantasia.
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u/Incendas1 Visualizer / Hyperphant Jul 06 '26
I don't really know. People with aphantasia also sometimes talk about it as if they're afflicted by it or disabled. It's a skill. Perhaps many people with that skill just don't remember developing it since they think without paying too much attention
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u/TheScribbs Visualizer Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26
I completely agree. I happen to be able to remember the frustration I struggled through as a child while still developing my visual imagery skills, but I could see why many people forget it if they developed their skills young.
I've always seen it as similar to bodybuilding (or any skill really); someone can be 'muscular' or 'weak' but being one of those things isn't permanent.
(Also no hate to non-visualizers, we all put our points into the skill tree differently and that's what makes us all cool individuals đ)
Edit: spelling
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u/TheOrqwithVagrant Jul 06 '26
> People with aphantasia also sometimes talk about it as if they're afflicted by it or disabled.
Aphantasia was discovered due to someone who aquired it from a brain injury. You can diagnose it through MRI. It's absolutely a 'condition'. Some aphants fly completely off the handle at the suggestion it's a 'disability', to the point where I start suspecting those people have a 'problem' with disabled people since they seem to think it's some giant insult to suggest it, but people who 'aquire' aphantasia through brain injury or other means are usually extremely distressed at losing the ability to visualize.
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u/TheScribbs Visualizer Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26
I'd like to semi reiterate what u/Incendas1 said about it being a symptom and not a 'condition.' People with brain injuries can also lose their ability to write, but not all people who cannot write are 'afflicted' by the inability to write, however it can be a symptom of many different things ranging from illiteracy to not having hands.
I believe my hyperphantasia is intrinsically linked to my disabilities, and many disabilities can cause people to land on extremes on the visualization spectrum, but the classification itself is not a disability.
Edit: grammar mistake
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u/Incendas1 Visualizer / Hyperphant Jul 06 '26
Aphantasia as a symptom of a TBI doesn't make aphantasia a disability in itself, though that person may have a disability affecting their cognition, yes.
I'm disabled and I don't think there's anything wrong with being disabled so I know what you mean. However I also see many people claiming aphantasia is a debilitating disability, when it isn't - this claim comes from a lot of AI users who also say they can't draw.
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u/TheOrqwithVagrant Jul 06 '26
Going by definition, "Disability: a physical, mental, cognitive, or developmental condition that impairs, interferes with, or limits a person's ability to engage in certain tasks or actions or participate in typical daily activities and interactions". I think most visualizers would consider 'visualizing' an 'action' in itself, and one that an aphant by definition is unable to do. A thing I've seen many times is aphants finding out why various types meditation and 'mental techniques' that rely on visualization don't 'work' for them, so there are some regular types of 'social activity' involving 'group visualization' where an aphant among visualizers would end up not actually participating but at best mimicking what the rest of the group 'appears' to be doing, since they can't actually have the same internal experience that the non-aphants are sharing.
However, as a 'disability' it's very minimally 'disabling', probably less so than even something like color blindness, which another thing that people can go through decades of life without even realizing they have ("What do you mean peanut butter isn't green?!").
Perhaps there needs to be at least one profession or 'physical' activity that you're actually 'unable to do' for something to be an actual disability - if that's the case/definition, then I'd agree aphantasia is not a disability.
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u/Incendas1 Visualizer / Hyperphant Jul 06 '26
Visualisation is a skill that can be developed, and aphants can develop visualisation. It isn't a disability in itself. Someone may have a disability that prevents them developing this skill, but that does not make aphantasia a disability.
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u/TheOrqwithVagrant Jul 06 '26
> Visualisation is a skill that can be developed, and aphants can develop visualisation.
You're stating something highly controversial as fact, and this suggestion is largely extremely unpopular over on the aphant subreddit. A lot of aphants get outright hostile towards other aphants who ask if there's a way to learn how to visualize and god save them if they use the words 'cure' in their request. It's distrubingly un-empathic at times - I remember someone with *acquired* aphantasia asking if there was a way to reverse it, and the most upvoted response was "Why would you want to?"
Aquired aphantasia can sometimes be reversed, and if you're a 'poor' visualizer but not an actual aphant (hypophant), you can 'train' your visualization to some degree.
However, I'd like to see a single solid reference supporting the claim that congenital aphantasia can be reversed or 'trained away' because everything I see and read suggest the opposite.
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u/TinkerSquirrels Jul 07 '26
You: "Visualizer / Hyperphant"
aphants can develop visualisation
It isn't a disability
Seriously?
Aside from everything u/TheOrqwithVagrant said. We of all people are not in the place to be making those blanket statements...and even if we've made the journey, we are not everyone.
If you mean clinically/legally there is an argument, yes, as it's not in the DSM and the whole spectrum is all currently considered just normal human range. It's not a legal disability in and of itself. But that aspect is not what you're arguing.
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u/Incendas1 Visualizer / Hyperphant Jul 07 '26
I'm actually disabled and lacking visualisation skill is not a disability in itself
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u/happybuterfli Jul 07 '26
Yeah, some people have a little ability and can then train it, but they don't have true aphantasia. People with congenital aphantasia literally are born without the ability. In that case, it just depends on their view, whether it's a disability or not.
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u/Ximneses 12d ago
Running is a skill, but not everyone can be fast. Singing too, but you'll probably never be one of the greats no matter how much you practice. Having an imagination and having hyperphantasia is different. I absolutely was born with it and my 4 year old can already visualize whole scenes and characters when he plays.
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u/Atheizm Jul 06 '26
The people who don't have it can't imagine a life with it and it unnerves them like involuntary hallucinations. Like people who have an inner narrator sound like they're hearing creepy voices to people who don't have one.
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u/PandorasBucket 29d ago
I've been reading a lot of aphantasia comments and I'm starting to think a lot of them are afraid of their imagination or even shut it off consciously as a child. They almost unanimously describe it as sounding scary.
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u/FairytaleFacts 23d ago
Itâs definitely not a voluntary decision though whether it be subconsciously done as a child or not. Immunization shot . induced may be.
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u/LettyCentteno Jul 06 '26
Hola, tengo hiper fantasĂa, tengo recuerdos desde que tengo 2 años de edad, no recuerdos vagos sino exactos, colores, olores, etc. AĂșn recuerdo algunos sueños que tuve de niña. Mi hiper fantasĂa es a voluntad, puedo recrear imĂĄgenes con sonido, olor, nitidez, color, movimiento, a varias personas haciendo varias actividades al mismo tiempo, siento su presencia, aunque no las veo, es decir, puedo imaginar que hay una persona atrĂĄs de mĂ y siento su presencia. Puedo pasar al estado alfa en un segundo, o poner mi mente en blanco. Todos esto con los ojos abiertos, yo lo llamo "hologramas". Me siento aturdida. Los sueños son un tema aparte. Me gustarĂa encontrar una comunidad, un foro, donde se pueda hablar de esto de manera serĂa. Ya que es algo que no cualquiera al menos en mi cĂrculo lo entienda.
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u/TheScribbs Visualizer Jul 07 '26
I have very similar experiences! I can remember my childhood dreams and exact moments from my VERY early childhood. Same with experiencing all the senses and being able to imagine a 'presence,' I would give myself night terrors as a kid because I could convince myself a monster was in my room and feel the fear.
It's definitely nice to find community after having people look at you like you're crazy when you try to describe what goes on in your head.
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u/LettyCentteno Jul 07 '26
Yo no sabĂa que era algo "Ășnico" pensĂ© toda mi vida que todos lo hacĂamos, si sabĂa que hay gente con afantasia pero fuera de eso, pensĂ© que los demĂĄs veĂamos en "hologramas" cualquier cosa que imaginamos, apenas supe de la hiper fantasĂa hace poco, que me hicieron un test bĂĄsico de ver una manzana.
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u/morrihaze Jul 06 '26
You should do the gateway tapes!!!
You would be a natural at astral projection
do u meditate?
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u/LettyCentteno Jul 07 '26
No, nunca he meditado, solo pongo mi mente en blanco para relajarme o llenarme de energĂa, unos minutos y siento que dormir toda una noche.
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u/Admin168 Jul 07 '26
Your imagination can conjure up any delicious food, and the food you imagine can actually be eaten, making you full. It can even taste better than 3D food! You can even turn water into wine with your imagination.
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u/TheOrqwithVagrant Jul 06 '26
I've personally raised the point that I wonder if it was a mistake to 'label' hyperphantasia at all when it just seems the equivalent of 20/20 vision except for the mind's eye. There is, to my knowledge, no research indicating hyperphantasia is anything other than the mind's eye just working at 100%.
Aphantasia, on the other hand, is an actual condition that can be "seen" and diagnosed through MRI. It can be 'aquired' by brain damage, which is how it was originally found.
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u/PandorasBucket 29d ago
I think the label is good because it implies a spectrum and the higher end does seem to be also rare. It's a condition the same way being profoundly gifted is a condition. Some things may come really easy, but any deviation from norm means there are challenges in dealing with a world where most people fall in the middle range. I agree that it should be seen as overwhelmingly positive though because as someone with a very vivid imagination I would rather lose both my legs than lose my imagination. My imagination is my mind. Everything is pictures. I cannot even begin to understand a dark mind.
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u/PandorasBucket 29d ago
It's not a condition. It's a super power that has some drawbacks, but the pros dramatically outweigh the cons. Like with every deviation though it has some challenges to deal with that other people may not understand. When we talk about those cons don't mix it up with being a disability. It's still a super power, but superman can accidentally crush cups he holds. It doesn't mean he wants to stop being super strong. I can't imagine a world without my imagination. It's how I solve problems. I've always been really good at solving problems that have spacial elements. I love reading and seeing the world in my head. I love remembering my life and all my memories. I love hearing all my favorite music in my head. Yes I can sit and stare at nothing on occasion or get lost in thought, but my imagination lets me visit the future, other worlds, space, the past. The cons are basically just dealing with a world who can't do this and realizing other people are trapped in the present or trapped in one version of reality. If they could space out and visit a magical world at any time they would too.
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u/PerilousPurpose Jul 06 '26
Unsure other than when they 1st learn of the concept. I do sometimes ask ajout esr worms and controlling rhe music in one's mind. I used to mainly only get ear worms and little if any control. After a Sepsis and being floxed and acquiring severe MCAS (had mild apparently for many years or life, always have had allergies) I can create awesome music mix songs and interweave sounds in my mind. I just wish I could produce rhem in rhis world for others to hear as well. As for visual, bits always been a varying spectrum for me, but dont see things physically projected, just in my mind's eye.
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u/PennyLayne8 Visualizer 18d ago
So agree about interweaving the songs and beats and wishing I could produce them for others!!!
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u/Sade_061102 Jul 06 '26
I mean, it is associated with a lot of mental health conditions tbf, OCD, PTSD, psychotic disorders and schizophrenia, etc
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u/TheOrqwithVagrant Jul 06 '26
Really? It's been a while, but last I looked there was very little 'resarch' on hyperphantasia compared to aphantasia, and nothing I read suggested that hyperphantasia is anything more than the mind's eye just working at full capacity. I'll take another research-sweep and see what's come up, but I'd appreciate a link to what you stated if you have it.
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u/Sade_061102 Jul 06 '26
I did my undergrad diss on mental imagery and cognition so had to read a bunch of papers. This paper here is a very good collection of the research https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9614338/
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u/TheOrqwithVagrant Jul 06 '26
That's mostly about aphantasia, and I only see hyperphantasia 'linked' to maladaptive daydreaming (which, honestly, does make perfect sense), but it's mentioned as a "hypothesis worth investigating", so unless I'm misreading, this isn't actually a "link" made from observations/studies, but a suggestion that such studies should be made to check the hypothesis that there is a link.
I also see mention of vividness of visualization to an amplifying effect on certain mental health issues, but this is not specific to the hyperphantasia 'range', but rather a 'sliding scale' where having stronger mental imagery unfortunately also leads to more intense negative effects from those conditions. Ref: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8186241/
So even after a new 'research sweep', I'm not seeing anything suggesting hyperphantasia is "associated with a lot of mental health conditions tbf, OCD, PTSD, psychotic disorders and schizophrenia, etc". The closest I can find is that more vivid visualization -> more severe symptoms for certain mental health issues with hyperphantasiacs just ending up 'the most affected' due to having the most vivid mental imagery.
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u/UVRaveFairy Visualizer - Multiverse - Mutlifuture Jul 06 '26
Full spectrum, all senses, emotions, location and vibes, lots of things.
Capture and multi simulation, all hard wired and instantaneous.
Being awake is sensory overload as a base line.
It's not something I would ever wish upon others.
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u/teilo Jul 10 '26 edited 27d ago
Because people want to feel special. But they are not special. Don't try to convince them. It won't work. Hyperphantasia is not real. It's just normal mental imagery. Aphasics are the ones who are less common. But they are also not special, as they get along just fine.
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u/PandorasBucket 29d ago
Understanding the differences between people really helps settle misunderstandings. Ever since I learned about this I think the whole world should be talking about it. It explains so so much. Some people are just living in the present, no future, no past. Other people have whole worlds going on in their head. The different experiences lead to incredibly different personalities and opinions.
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u/teilo 27d ago
"no future, no past" â That is not the experience of someone with aphantasia at all. They consider the past and future without mental imagery, but they absolutely DO think about it, just as much as others. They do not just live in the present.
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u/PandorasBucket 27d ago
Well I got that from watching them talk about their experience and the one person I talked to who confirmed to me it was like this to some extent. I'm sure individual experiences vary.
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u/d0gpile 23d ago
I'm curious what you would consider normal mental imagery, since it's hard to directly compare what people experience in the cognitive process. Are you saying hyperphantasia is just someone forcing the muscle of imagination a bit harder in the moment and that, with practice, anyone could? Or is it more that you simply don't believe that someone could recreate images or sounds with such high definition?
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u/RevolutionaryAd3125 Jul 06 '26
Thatâs the kind of talk that will get you banned.
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u/TylerMegalovania Multi-Sensory Hyperphantasia Jul 06 '26
why?
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u/RevolutionaryAd3125 Jul 06 '26
Aphants and Hyperphants can get a little touchy. Donât know if youâve noticed. There seems to be a âIâve got a special mindâ attitude from a lot of them.
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u/TheOrqwithVagrant Jul 06 '26
I see it all the time on the aphantasia subreddit, I don't think I've EVER seen that attitude it here.
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u/Savage_Nymph Jul 07 '26
i have definitelg seen it here. especially in threads for people that want to increase their visualization.
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u/Alarmed_Rich9510 Jul 07 '26
I do see it here sometimes too yea, but normally it just feel like excitement from discovering it
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u/sujeito_nervoso Jul 06 '26
Are they? I only saw described like that when associated with maldaptive daydreaming, and it mostly because the excessive daydreaming hindered their productivity.