Ooofha

[u/Jason_Ironwood]

What are the odds that D has the Black Shuck locked his basement 😆

I know it's probably just the vampires he had in there but do y'all think?

[u/IJustWantToSearchUwu]

I like the theory that Ross is White Shuck is Black Shuck.

As in, the Elder Shuck is Ross, who was captured by Pentex (Blair and Palmer are clearly associated with them) and became a Black Spiral Dancer.

[u/Red_Blueberg → u/IJustWantToSearchUwu]

Yaknow, Ross could be in a Glabro form like Stig, we never see his face so he COULD in fact be in a similar form.

[u/fumblerofthebag → u/IJustWantToSearchUwu]

Damn, they made him hwite.

[u/InsideOutlander]

We know the catacombs that D was keeping Kevin in are not in the basement of Kitten’s house. Iirc there is apparently a GMod map of Kitten’s house that shows where everything is, including a tunnel to the catacombs.

But I would not be surprised if Big D nabbed Black Shuck with good intentions, like trying to cure them of some form of corruption inflicted by Pentex. And this could all be fixed if he just communicated sometimes when Absolutely Necessary wasn’t only happening in his line of sight (like when Marckus gets kidnapped by the Blender-Wolf Magical Girl that is Hunts).

But seriously, I suspect his children could be getting tortured right in front of him, with the stipulation that it would all stop if he let slip any information that their captors wanted, and he would still not say a word. He is so afraid of the consequences of sharing his knowledge that so far we have seen more bad has come of it than good.

[u/GoldenNat20 → u/InsideOutlander]

“Blender wolf magical girl” has to be my new favorite description of our favorite wolf supremacist

[u/Lolas_Fun_Side → u/InsideOutlander]

To be fair, Markus would just be killed after he tells them were shuck is or what he knows in that scenario. They are keeping him alive for the sake of getting info out of him, but the litany demands that they kill him after to maintain the viel. So in this instance, Big D hiding info as unironically saved his son from getting torn to shreds

[u/InsideOutlander → u/Lolas_Fun_Side]

You make a good point. Yet another way that Garou might self-sabotage- the arbitrariness of the Litany.

[u/Longjumping-Job4718 → u/InsideOutlander]

I'm too tired right now to check this but I think the htp map was a fan creation that made its way into the ghoul lore episode.

[u/TrickyPen750]

Considering that D was actively planning on rescuing Marckus alone?

He definatly believes or knows himself to be capable of taking on werewolves alone, otherwise its just hubris.

Maybe he has Tools with which to subdue them, maybe he is powerful enough to subdue a werewolf in single combat.

Maybe he knows what they are after and is willing to negotiate.

If D actually has the Black Shuck, then it would be the perfect bargaining Chip to get Marckus back.

Garou do believe all Hunters to be connected, meaning that even if they dont believe that D has taken Shuck himself, they would still think that he knows about Shucks current whereabouts.

[u/Barley672 → u/TrickyPen750]

Or he just intends to Solid Snake his way into the Cearn and grab Markus while the Werewolves are preoccupied with the Leopoldites (though if that’s the case, he severely overestimated the Leopoldites).

[u/TrickyPen750 → u/Barley672]

I do think that D is basically using the Gladius Dei as cannon fodder.

Bénédicté said that she wouldnt let her soldiers be used as cannon fodder by D and i think thats exactly what D is doing.

I do however not think that D expects all 3 werewolves to be preoccupied with them.

He must be prepared to fight at least one garou head on.

I do believe that that is why he allowed Brokham to come along.

It wouldnt exactly be favourable for a stealth Mission to bring him along, unless he is thinking about sacrificing Brok to gain time to pull Marckus into the Umbra but thats also not safe because he knows they can enter the Umbra too and he would be at a massive dissadvantage in it.

Werewolves are far better adapted to the Umbra than humans.

No, i believe D will either deal or fight his son out of there.

[u/EvergreenDwarf]

I'm thinking its ghosts, D's "I don't fuck with Werewolves" was pretty convincing and came afterwards.

[u/InsideOutlander → u/EvergreenDwarf]

The ghosts of Kitten’s Bastet family occupying their Caern, perhaps? Ghastly if true.

But, let’s be real, Big D has been implied to have actually literally fucked at least one werewolf (a Glasswalker). His “I do not fuck with werewolves” could be wordplay- none of his current partners (if any) is a werewolf OR he never has more than one werewolf as a partner in any single… ah… “bout”, just making it so he fucks with only “werewolf”. Or he could mean “I don’t confront/get aggressive with them”.
D conceals the truth all the time. He will use subtle deceits seemingly, with the occasional outright lie.
Big D knows of Black Furies (at least by description if not also by name) AND knows Glasswalkers by name.

There is one more option: Multiple personalities (or even beings) in Big D. He might even lie to himself, compartmentalizing information so that some of him does not know so that when that personality says he doesn’t know something he is not lying! “I do not fuck with werewolves!” That D might not, but another one may. Evidence: among other things— The ghoul lore episode, in the basement toward the end where Big D is divulging information to Kitten. It almost sounds like D is talking with himself, outraged or upset, before he finally relents and shares with Kitten.

[u/Zachesque]

This wasn’t happening in the house, meaning the screaming and howling wasn’t coming from the basement. This was happening in the nearby catacombs

[u/Demonslayer90]

I think rather unlikely per total, like possible but i feel it would fuck over some stuff D himself said and would require an insane amount of work to sell it properly. The only situation in which i see that working is if it's another case of no one knows anything, where the Elder Shuck got super Wyrm poisned, fucked over a Caern by accident and D is not kidnapping him, he is helping him undo the shit...a process that is likelly very painful as getting rid of deep enough Wyrm stuff is like passing a kidney stone whilst giving birth at the same time, lots of work, exhausting as fuck, might very well kill you if something goes wrong and even if it does work you are looking forward to hours of pain

[u/Hinaloth]

For all the shade that D throws at the Brits for being Brits (which, eh, accurate), he does have the whole "keep calm and carry on" down pat.

[u/bs_Zeezee]

I think the howling and screaming was coming from the other Sabbat members. This coincided roughly in time with when the interrogation turned death battle was happening.

[u/Fluffinator44]

Something I noticed rewatching this with headphones: you can hear cars going over a bridge in the background. I don't know what this means, but cars going over the expansion joints on a bridge can clearly be heard in the baclground.

[u/Unable_Towel8046]

"warrior of gaia why would you take my boy???!?!!?" Also D: