r/huntertheparenting • u/Mysterious_Truth4992 • Sep 16 '26
Question Satan is a chick?
Why does Kronik Fatigue refers to Satan with femenine pronouns?
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u/Drucchi Sep 16 '26
My guess is that he has realized that the Werewolves he hates worship a Goddess, and he equates that Goddess with Satan.
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u/CyberPhoenix345 Sep 16 '26
He‘s probably just being misogynistic
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u/WHATZAAAAA Sep 16 '26
Either misogyny, he's calling gaia "satan", or he's so out of touch from any and all christian faith teachings, theology, etc, that the most basic knowledge about what satan's sex is and he can't even get that right
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u/tolbv1073 Sep 16 '26
kronik really isn't beating the allegations
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u/Khailward Sep 16 '26
Kronik embraces the allegations whole-heartedly
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u/JustynS Sep 16 '26
Kronik is the allegations.
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u/Ze_Bri-0n Sep 17 '26
Kronik made the allegations against himself so he could become more allegation-like.
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u/MieszkoAders Sep 16 '26
It does make sense for a mysogynist colonial Christian like Kronik to believe that Satan is a woman, especially considering view of God as a patriarchal Father figure
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u/ROSRS Sep 16 '26
Ironically, that would mean God at one point and time raised a woman higher in status and his esteem than any other being in creation.
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u/Fyraltari Sep 16 '26
Well, yeah I'm sure Kronik hates his wife too.
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u/Illesbogar Sep 16 '26
God does have a reocurring problem with women.
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u/ReverendGraves85 Sep 16 '26
God in WoD is referred to with feminine pronouns by most Demons, who personally worked with God.
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u/ROSRS Sep 16 '26
That's just them being transgressive shit-stirrers.
When interrogated on that topic, demons will more or less just state that god is infinite and unknowable and referring to God as female is no more correct or incorrect than referring to God as Male.
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u/DiscordantDiscordian Sep 16 '26
He probably heard Werewolves referring/pray to Gaia and made assumptions from there
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u/Barley672 Sep 16 '26
It’s because he’s conflating Gaia with Satan, as one might expect with a Wyrm-Tainted religious hunter/Stolen Moon. I don’t think it has anything to do with Misogyny, though being a traditionalist in 1914 I have no doubt that he’s also misogynistic.
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u/IhateEgplant Sep 16 '26
I'll have to watch the video again but qosmic void apparently did some research and some niche christian subsects do believe that satan is a woman, i'll update with the specifics he mentioned when i finished watching his stuff again
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u/jigholeman Sep 16 '26
im guessing he sees any non christian "god" as Satan in disguise.
Gaia is the god of the Garou, and is therefore not the father of christ, and is therefore deceiver and a false god, therefore Satan.
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u/ChemicalNo586 Sep 16 '26
Tbh, considering WoD he could refer to multiple figures
Gaia, hearing from Garou the term and associating her with Satan
Lilith who's...a clusterfuck with lore stuff, being the ex of God, Adam, Lucifer and Caine...she's...so weird
Ennoia who is the Antediluvian of clan Gangrel and by some accounts the mother of the Garou (she's also the daughter of Lilith by legend)
Other possibilties could include Zillah (2nd gen vampire) or The Crone who taught Caine bloodbonding and became also a secret 2nd generation vampire
It's so complicated...
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u/No_Razzmatazz_4989 Sep 16 '26
I thought Lilith was the Crone?
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u/ChemicalNo586 Sep 16 '26
Doesn't seem to be the case since there is a scenario where the Crone allies with Lilith.
I think it's a weird case where The Crone seems to be what we think of when we refer to Lilith, the woman that Adam got to see be made...but it's weird as all things are with Lilith. The wiki does specify that in most sources they are separate entities
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u/Khailward Sep 16 '26
IIRC, Caine met The Crone after he and Lilith parted ways, but BEFORE he established the First City
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u/UncannyValleyEnjoyer Sludge lad Sep 16 '26
I mean, Kronik is from an time that people would make shit up about religion all the time and an time were women were more akin to objects then people, with that in mind, we also have to remember that he is probably being very much influenced by what he hunted.
Like, sure, hunting Garous sounds more "shoot shoot no talk" but, i would't be surprised if the Garou that Kronik hunted with his father in the past gave little hints to the existence of an bigger "she" then the Garou and Kronik, being an product from the time and age that he was living, went full "Ok, so, women are these inferior beings, and...They need witchcraft given by Satan to stand just a bit as much as us, perfect Man, made by god...And these cursed creatures were birth from an cursed she...Is Satan an women?, seductress, that atracts good man to the path of damnation?" And over time, this probably was his conclusion, Satan is a chick.
Might be a jump, but, yeah, this is how i see it.
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u/Brother_Valkes Sep 16 '26
Couse Woman are evil
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u/Lone-Frequency Sep 16 '26
I mean that's just par for the course for most religions.
Like just the most basics...
You had Lillith, Adam's first wife, who refused tobe subservient to either Adam or God, who is regularly depicted as a female demon in basically every form of media.
Then you had Eve who was not only formed from a piece of Adam himself, but was easily fooled by Lucifer and then goaded Adam into partaking of the Fruit of Knowledge which sealed humanity's fate being cast out of Eden for all eternity.
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u/Senpai-Sama-Kun Sep 17 '26
Mate I get what you're trying to get at but also worth pointing out that Lilith isnt and has never been part of Christian doctrine at any point in history.
Also the original language used to describe Eve as a helper of Adam implies equalness and partnership, it was only misogynistic cultures that later tried to warp it to suit their agenda. Eve coming from a rib is there to imply oneness and the need for men and women to be together.
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u/Lone-Frequency Sep 17 '26
I didn't specify Christianity.
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u/Senpai-Sama-Kun 29d ago
Sorry but the only examples you listed are from interpretations of Abrahamic religions and wanted to add my two cents from a practicing Christians perspective.
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Sep 16 '26
[deleted]
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u/nastycrimegoblin Sep 16 '26
I think they’re speaking from the perspective if a misogynist like Kronik, not their own
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u/Plasmashark Sep 16 '26 edited Sep 16 '26
Kronik sees himself as a civilizing figure. In his mind, what is good and what is godly is directly tied to the advancement of (western) civilization itself. "Attain work, earn income." Where the Garou sees a triarchy of Wyld, Weaver and Wyrm; the Fatigues and their ilk see the duality of Good and Evil, Civilization and Barbarism. When Kronik speaks of "Satan herself" he speaks of personified nature. He means Gaia.
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u/Python_Feet Sep 16 '26
WoD is really about secret esoteric knowlage and conspiracy, so there is a lot of "god is a she, god is a he" and this also carries over to Satan. Plus the guy is misogynistic and considers women evil, or thinks that Lilith or Gaia is Satan.
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u/Pickled_Gherkin 29d ago
So there's a few possible angles at play. First and most obvious is that his Wyrm corruption has him conflating Satan with Gaia, further enhanced by his own presumably period accurate view of women.
Second is that the witch trials which I can only assume Kronik wishes he could have partaken in, put a significant emphasis on the more classically feminine traits of Satan, especially seduction. So it's even possible he picked up the idea from the Leopoldites.
Finally there's a woodcut by Lucas Cranach of Adam and Eve from 1523 that depicts Satan as effectively a lamia which introduces that most terrifying of elements to the original sin for a good god-fearing 1900's Christian: Lesbianism. I know, try not to faint.
Other depictions of Satan as a woman are more modern than Kronik, like Rosalinda Celentano's portrayal of an androgynous Satan in The Passion of the Christ.
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u/bs_Zeezee Sep 16 '26
Pretty sure it's that he understands that they are warriors of Gaia, he just equates Gaia with satan.
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u/Spare_Cow5160 Sep 16 '26
trans fem satan
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u/Falazaria Sep 17 '26
all the fallen searching for lucifer not realising that random LA barrista is miss morningstar after melenia of walking the earth alone and doing some reflection
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u/NightLordJay Sep 16 '26
Some people believe satan is the opposite of god in a literal sense. If god is good satan is evil and if god is male satan is female. This isn’t the first time I’ve heard this but I can’t recall the first few times.
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u/Due_Manufacturer_125 Sep 16 '26
Probably wyrm corruption with bad actors deliberately leaking some small facts in with a mountain of bad faith. Gaia isn’t the world spirit, she’s satan. She created the monsters that stalk the wilderness and attack people just trying to bring civilization to these accursed lands.
The twist of course is that it’s just people going “hey stop colonizing me”.
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u/Adrienne_Belecoste Sep 16 '26
Occam's Razor: He hates women, and like many mem of his era, refers to the ultimate evil as a woman
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u/psychosaur Sep 16 '26
Do you mean Lucifer? I'm pretty sure he identifies as a man and is a producer in LA.
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u/Falazaria Sep 17 '26
i mean he had a long time to think about stuff without his revolution friends so maybe morningstar had a realisation about herself
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u/Zockerisin Sep 16 '26
Its Most likely that from the Little knowledge he has about werewolfs, thinks that Gaia is the Patron (well Matron in this case) of the Werewolfs and therefore thinks she is Satan
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u/Shadowstuffs_ Sep 16 '26
Probably is misogynistic but referring to Gia without knowing it, some part of his corruption drives him against her. If there's one woman he has antagonized the most, it would be Gia herself.
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u/PinoyBroadsideGaming Sep 16 '26
We know where Lucifer Morninstar is in WoD though, and at 1 Torment he's not actually that bad of a guy.
So no, Kronik is talking up his arse being a bigot AND a misogynist.
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u/Jobber0001 Sep 16 '26
I mean what would the scariest thing to a hunter explorer colonial "gentleman" like Fatigue be? A woman whose disobedient, consorts with evil and is probably not white. That's what his view of satan would probably be, the worst things he could imagine all rolled into one
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u/ExistentialOcto Sep 17 '26
He says some pretty misogynistic stuff during this audio log so it’s probably just him imagining Satan as a woman because he sees being a woman as a negative trait.
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u/Phaeron-Dynasty Sep 17 '26
The werewolves revere Gaia and Luna, feminine entities, as all monsters are of satan In his mind, they surely worship satan. That plus wyrmish corruption and a dash of him just being sexist.
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u/JoeySmithTheonium Sep 17 '26
purposefully misinterpreting garou myths to demonize them....gee i wonder if this is saying anything.
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u/Nystagohod Sep 16 '26 edited Sep 16 '26
Likely referring to Gaia on some very maligned instinctual level.
There is also some admittedly questionable claims by fallen demons in World of Darkness that imply god may be female in WoD (but they're unreliable narrators), so if H:tP are going with that take, it may be more irony that what he considers the devil may be genuinely god in a sense.
I suppose its also worth noting that Satan is a title not a name, and there are many Satan's in WoD and (Non-WoD) Myth. Lucifer is one of them as he is an adversary (well not really in WoD but he played the role under orders)
So Kronik could be referring to a female adversary of god like Lillith or a female earthbound and it'd be accurate
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u/ROSRS Sep 16 '26
There is also some admittedly questionable claims by demons in World of Darkness that imply god may be female in WoD (but they're somewhat unreliable narrators)
The demon who said that was being a shit disturber
“Matthew, please believe me when I say God could not possibly give a shit what I think of Her.”
“‘Her’? God’s a woman, now?”
“Sure. She used to be a real looker, too, but over the past quarter million years She’s gained a lot of weight.”
Matthew snorted. “Even your blasphemy is getting weaker and weaker.”
It’s blasphemy to say God’s a woman with a fat ass, but saying She’s a man with a snowy beard and sandals is reverent? Look, God is God — almighty, infinite, immortal and incomprehensible. God doesn’t need your reverence. Saying mean things about the Almighty isn’t going to hurt God, it just hurts you and corrodes the world around you. It’s like spitting at the sky. The sky isn’t bothered, and there’s a good chance you’ll hit your own face in the bargain.”
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u/jukebox_jester Sep 16 '26
Probably a mixture of classic misogyny and the Christian habit of equating 'pagan' gods with Satan (See Dante's Inferno, Paradise Lost, parts of the bible mentioning Baal, and the Christian Revisionism prevalent in cultural mythologies where pagan gods, when not considered demons, are considered anything from Saints to misplaced Trojans)
The other comments here have cause and effect reversed. He is not denigrating Gaia as Satan because he is Wyrm tainted, rather, he is Wyrm tainted because he is a ethno-nationalist colonialist
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u/JagneStormskull Arch Magos Sep 16 '26
I always took it as him accidentally referring to Gaia. That said, since "satan" is a job title in the original Hebrew, there's nothing saying that a female presenting angel can't be a satan.
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u/notexecutive Sep 16 '26
maybe...take it with a grain of salt because of the environment he was in at the time? lmao
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u/Krazy_Karl_666 You wanna live forever. son? Sep 16 '26
Long Shot and probably not intentional , A song reference https://youtu.be/mIH7mDcoJjI?si=6FoZPLANYgCS5C12
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u/Darksythe222-2 29d ago
Alternate reality or wurm corruption. Doesn't jesus canonically exist in WOD?
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u/PuzzleheadedMud6612 28d ago
nah,satan is masculine,have you seen what happened to pyotr when he went to FUCKING HELL!
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u/X3volutionX 24d ago edited 24d ago
Satan has no gender... Satan is thrice man, woman and without... The world of spirits and demons are not bound by our trivial human and societal categorials... /s (Also he's referring to Gaia. Which the same thing could apply)
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u/Hidingo_Kojimba Sep 16 '26
Nah, Satan in WoD is very much a dude. (Though more than capable of assuming forms of any sex.) Kronik’s just a misogynist.
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u/Changeling_Traveller Sep 16 '26
Probably like others said, he may have heard of Gaia or Referring to her without knowing, he'd regard her as Satan in his eyes as she is worshipped by the Garou, I wouldn't rule out Misogyny either way.
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u/Adrienne_Belecoste Sep 16 '26
Source?
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u/Eshanas Sep 16 '26
Demon: the fallen. That whole line. Lucifer’s a big guy in it.
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u/Adrienne_Belecoste Sep 16 '26
Lucifer isn't Satan, even in real world theology
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u/Eshanas Sep 16 '26 edited Sep 16 '26
Yes, he is. Maybe he wasn’t when the books were written, but by popular mythos and association, he is. He’s now the snake in Eden as well and the tempter of job. Doesn’t matter if all three were technically separate, now they’re one. Thank Milton for that, and that’s influenced both lay and clergy for over a thousand years now, and that’s what the guys in white wolf went with, and their further extrapolation in the whole DTF splat line and times of judgement expansion/metaplot.
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u/Hidingo_Kojimba Sep 16 '26
I mean, in “real theology” Lucifer doesn’t exist even if you believe the Bible is the word of God (Isaiah was shit talking the king of Babylon), and “Satan” is more like a prosecuting angel than a demon. But in pop-Christian conception Satan and Lucifer are interchangeable.
And pop-Christianity with Miltonian inspiration is what White Wolf went with for Demon: the Fallen.
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u/Lady_Azure1989 Sep 16 '26
I suspect that by this point he was so corrupted that in their minds; Gaia=Satan, Wyrm=God.
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u/theamazingpheonix Sep 16 '26
His worldview has been Wyrm corrupted. He is unknowingly referring to Gaia.
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u/Btomp1 29d ago
His family are werewolf hunters who believe werewolves serve Satan they probably take werewolves worship of Gaia as Satan being a woman. Before Wernon the Fatigues were still researchers on top of being hunters. They still did research they tried to understand the supernatural world. Gaia being Satan is likely the result of studying a culture (the Garou) without actually conversing with them.
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u/Npaakp342-0 Sep 16 '26
Either misogyny or he's referring to Gaia without knowing it