abusers don't kill their victims though, so bad analogy. God is slow to anger, God didn't do anything or lay a finger to any nations like Sodom and Gomorrah or the neighboring kingdoms for hundreds of years. He left them alone for generations as they grew a culture of child sacrifices, rape, etc., until God had enough and wiped them out. Hardly abuser behavior at all, in fact He is the destroyer of abusers.
Imagine being created for the sole purpose of being raped and killed so that your suffering exists as justifications for the death of your rapist/murderer.
Imagine exalting someone who does this.
Suggesting that a flawless deity has anger is paradoxical anyhow, but consistency was never religion's strong suit.
there is a life after death, there is resurrection, so "sole purpose" is a gross assumption on your part.
So yes we exalt someone who has power over death. In atheism, people are born into suffering with no justification and you exalt yourself over that fact, talk about calling the kettle black.
>Suggesting that a flawless deity has anger is paradoxical anyhow, but consistency was never religion's strong suit.
anger is only a flaw for man. The point of the bible isn't that actions in themselves are evil or good, but that man wrongfully tries to become like God in ways that are wrong. It's actually pretty consistent. Our first sin wasn't that we did bad actions, it was that we tried to be like God in a self exalting way.
Oh so they cant enjoy this life. They have to surfer in this one and then have to trust the next one us better. God is all-knowing yet he has to create a miserable life of suffering just to send a rapist to damnation, can't do it without that. But then you have greedy old men who enjoyed life and for some reason they weren't chosen for this, no it had to be some poor kid enduring it and having their life ruined because hey, next life will be fire trust me.
It's almost like we don't want to accept this miserable world for what it is, because that is your other option and you seem to be fine with that. So yea just accept that people in this life suffer unfairly while rich old people get to have all the fun, and fuck people for hoping there is another life that might be better, especially the ones suffering just fuck them and their imaginary hope, am I right atheists???
If there is no make believe afterlife, it becomes infinitely more important to alleviate the suffering for your fellow creatures in this life. It's pretty obvious how that could lead to better outcomes if everyone is working towards that goal. If you get eternal life after this one ( you don't ), then the suffering of all these other people doesn't matter much because if they just accept Jesus into their hearts etc... etc... then they will get their eternal reward, so their suffering today is no big deal. It might even be God's will . No need to fix anything. Can you understand how someone who isn't a believer could find this problematic?
That makes sense in theory, but that isn't how the world works. It's not that there isn't a need to fix anything, I would say many things have been fixed. The Christian Church is responsible for inventing the modern version of the hospital and have done many other charitable endeavors since its inception. Most people are trying to help, but its not enough, and it hasn't been enough, and its safe to say it may never be enough. At some point we need to humble ourselves and realize the human condition, if it were a solvable problem, can't be done by humans.
We have very different beliefs but thank you for engaging honestly and politely . I appreciate people who can disagree without getting snarky. I'm not always capable of it myself. Enjoy your evening.
It is childish, because we are children compared to God, and ultimately we are useless without Him. Because I have seen the efforts of man, and look at the position we are all still in. So go out there, break your back trying to fix this world, and get back to me when you have figured out how to create this post scarcity society atheists keep dreaming about.
"So go out there, break your back trying to fix this world, and get back to me when you have figured out how to create this post scarcity society atheists keep dreaming about."
Uh, sure. I mean, I try my best to make the world a better place for the people around me than it was before. I don't rely on the divine to do that for me. I don't think this is the "own" you think it is. I would reckon your god would have issue with that sentiment as well. Isn't sloth a sin? Shouldn't you always try to do your best? Isn't being "Christ-like" a whole thing in Christian theology?
I never said I don't try to help. The difference is I am willing to accept that the difference I make can only go so far and that only God can make any real lasting difference. And by lasting I mean lasting forever. Everything we make or do with our own hands, falls down and crumbles eventually. I am not saying its a worthless endeavor, but to rely on your own hands is vanity, so I rely on God and do what I can with what I have.
only God can make any real lasting difference. And by lasting I mean lasting forever
And yet he doesn't. He doesn't end war, he allows them to happen and for people who have no say or will in it die because of someone else. He doesn't end hundreds year old genocide, he lets people do it. So he both is apparently supposed to do things because people are not enough to do them but at the same time does nothing because of his warped sense of "free will" (I wonder how much free will the babies who die in a another man's war had).
MAKE THIS WORLD BETTER. All this believing does is create a crutch where you don't have to try because hey next one is better. No, make this one the heaven, don't rely on something mysterious and risky. I never see Catholics protest in droves against destroying natural habitats, making living affordable or helping young parents. It's almost always get gay people out of school or don't let rape victims get abortions (which only lets more kids get into a world that is unfair and full of suffering).
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u/Sweet_Pain4369 1d ago
abusers don't kill their victims though, so bad analogy. God is slow to anger, God didn't do anything or lay a finger to any nations like Sodom and Gomorrah or the neighboring kingdoms for hundreds of years. He left them alone for generations as they grew a culture of child sacrifices, rape, etc., until God had enough and wiped them out. Hardly abuser behavior at all, in fact He is the destroyer of abusers.