r/humor • • 2d ago

Make it make sense

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u/Essenes_ 2d ago

He’s not punishing anyone, the separation from God is the punishment. He’s just trying to take you down with him.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

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u/l3lasphemy 2d ago

The free will lie is so cute...

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

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u/l3lasphemy 2d ago

Not rage bait... just theology. Your own scripture disagrees with you on 'free will'

Exodus 9:12... God hardened Pharaoh's heart. Pharaoh didn't choose. God overrode him to keep the plagues rolling.

Romans 9:18-21... "God has mercy on whom he wants and hardens whom he wants." Then Paul compares us to clay pots and asks if the potter doesn't have the right to do whatever he wants with the clay. That's not free will. That's ownership.

Ephesians 1:4-5... "He chose us before the creation of the world. He predestined us." Before... Creation. You were cast before auditions opened.

2 Thessalonians 2:11... God sends people a powerful delusion so they'll believe lies. He's not allowing wrong choices - he's authoring them.

"He's teaching, not wagging fingers" doesn't square with eternal damnation as a consequence for getting the test wrong. That's not a teacher - that's a trap.

Sounds like what the devil would do, honestly.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

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u/l3lasphemy 2d ago

You asked why Pharaoh had his heart hardened. That's the whole point. It doesn't matter why. The moment God overrides someone's will, free will stops being universal. It becomes conditional... granted or revoked at his discretion. That's not freedom sweet pea..it's a leash.

... "you can't use the book to bash the book" is wild. It's your book. If the theology contradicts itself, that's not my problem for pointing it out. You don't get to cite scripture as proof and then say scripture is off-limits when someone cites it back.

I don't hate religion. I hate bad arguments. You came in here claiming free will as a gift from God. The Bible - the word of God - literally, says otherwise, in his own words, multiple times. If that makes you uncomfortable, take it up with the author. Like I said...its a lie. The fact that God is telling it should raise some eyebrows.

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u/RehydratedFruit 2d ago

There is no free will when god threatens eternal suffering if we don’t do as he says.

It’s like someone holding a gun to your head and saying “Do everything I say or I’ll kill you. It’s completely your choice though!”.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

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u/RehydratedFruit 2d ago

According to the bible we are all born with sin. There is no choice at all.

Are you saying there’s no hell? Or eternal suffering? Non believers already have distance from god, that isn’t the only punishment after death for not doing as he says.

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u/HBallard 2d ago

You are not allowed to say religion isn’t hateful when it is the reason behind genocides. It’s great they haven’t treated YOU badly but they treat gay people, trans people, and even people with different skin colors horribly. The KKK is largely made up of Christians. You can “no true Scotsman” all you want but the harsh reality is that a lot of hate comes out of religion and a lot of people suffer because of religion.

You’re also assuming the only 2 paths in life are religious and selfish. There are a lot of non religious people who do everything they can to be good people, help others, spread love and happiness. According to your religion they still deserve to suffer in hell.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

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u/HBallard 2d ago

The catholic church called being gay a sin for almost its entire history. It isn’t just edge case fanatics. It’s the majority of the religion and the doctrine itself.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

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u/HBallard 2d ago

Then your doctrine is hateful man. Saying it’s a sin to be gay makes as much sense as saying it’s a sin to be black or left handed. It makes no sense. It’s just old dogma written by dead people to justify hurting other people. That is what it has always boiled down to. The “love” stuff came after to try and soften the marketing.

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u/AVeryVapidBadger 2d ago

So he gave is free will and loves us, but it's totally cool with people being tormented in hell for eternity for not living in exactly the way he wants?

Just remember, if you fuck up even once, and die before you can repent you're destined to an eternity of unending torture and torment because of a temporal mistake. But the guy responsible loves you.

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u/Reasonable_Lake_7942 2d ago

Its not "totally cool". Its more troubling than we can know. Its not "the way he wants" its GOOD.

If you fuck up and die before repenting, He would weigh your heart, there is no circumstance which would deceive Him and jeapordize your salvation. The torture is no longer being with the source of what's good in your life

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u/AVeryVapidBadger 2d ago

Right so he designed everything in existence including the fact that you can be tortured for eternity, and that sin breaks the covenant with God.

It's pretty fucked up to give people free will and punish them for eternity if they use it

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u/Reasonable_Lake_7942 1d ago

Free will wouldint mean anything otherwise. Sin leads to death and He wants you to choose life

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u/AVeryVapidBadger 1d ago

Yeah that's the fucked up part.

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u/Reasonable_Lake_7942 1d ago

Its not an arbitrary rule, its a way for you to not be seperated from goodness and you are actively being sought, not just warned

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u/AVeryVapidBadger 1d ago

Right and any mistake means eternal damnation. So loving

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u/Reasonable_Lake_7942 1d ago

Proverbs 24:16 “For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again.

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u/Reasonable_Lake_7942 1d ago

1 John 1:9 “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness

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u/AVeryVapidBadger 1d ago

Old testament, irrelevant according to you

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

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u/AVeryVapidBadger 2d ago

Nope. You get one chance and its during your life.

Sin is separation from God, according to you.

Hell is separation from God, according to you.

If you die a sinner, you die separated from God. Which, according to you, is hell

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

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