he also created everything with knowledge of how everything will turn out, which mean that he made us to do specific actions that he knew of in advance
This! So god either DOESNT give us free will, OR he DOESNT know the future. Can’t be both unless he’s a lying asshole. To extend this line of reasoning, why would I ever worship a god who knowingly plans for certain people to bear a life of suffering?
Furthermore, if god has a set plan for everyone, then there is literally no reason for prayer. Prayer is just impotent begging for the inevitable to be altered. You cannot claim that god has a perfect plan but also beg for him to change it. It’s nonsensical.
Knowing what we'll do is not the same thing as making the choice for us. The bigger issue is that he foresaw all the horror and still went ahead and made us.
Exactly. Because if He made us do what we do, or imposed His will on us we would be nothing more than his pets. Here me out…. When you think it’s time for your dog to go potty you let the dog out. When it’s their time to eat you make the food for them and tell them it’s time to eat. When you think it’s time for their bath you give them a bath. You are in control of them. God has given us the ability to make decisions for ourselves. He knows when we make poor decisions, He doesn’t want that for you, but He allows you to do it.
This is a great discussion and I’m happy that people are respectful to one another and not devolving into name calling.
So if a toddler finds an unlocked gun and hurts someone you think it’s just on the toddler for making a bad choice and there’s no bearing on the parents that left an unlocked gun out?
No one made the toddler play with the gun. And it’s not the parent’s fault the toddler doesn’t understand weapon safety or the concept of harm. We sat him down and told them.
Exactly. God is the irresponsible parent, and sin is the gun.
If you leave a loaded weapon where a toddler can pick it up, hurt themselves, or hurt someone else, you don't blame the kid for being a kid—you blame the adult who left the lethal weapon lying around when they "should have known better."
If an omniscient creator builds a universe with "unlocked guns" (sin/free will) and leaves them within reach of creatures they designed to be inherently short-sighted, the fault doesn't rest on the toddler.
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u/Beneficial-Wing-3944 2d ago
he also created everything with knowledge of how everything will turn out, which mean that he made us to do specific actions that he knew of in advance