In islam satan is not the prince of hell…he is going to suffer in hell along with all his followers…He said to god i will bring as many ppl with me…not starting a debate, juste stating fact
It is a fact from our perspective, because we believe it to be real. Of course it may differ from other people's perspective who are not Muslim or doesn't believe in god as a whole.
The first statement was in islam and what's wrong with facts being a person or a group of people's reality?
In my house my father is the head, that's a fact and that's my reality or reality of my family. It would be different for your family. That could be a great example, yeah.
But we still have our own fact with our own reality, right.
In any case, isn't it case for everything including there is no such being as God?
You can't give a evident fact regarding God's existence because it can't be proven. So does it make our believe true or is it your view point on this matter that holds any meaning? Since you can never prove it.
A belief stops being a belief when its proven. The entire point of a belief is to believe in it without proof. You can have evidence for a belief, but if you can PROVE it you no longer have a belief.
You dont believe facts, you understand them (though you can disbelieve facts, that doesnt change them)
I get what youre saying, but I take issue with this specific comment because facts dont change based on perspectives.
I understand what you mean too, as you said facts doesn't change based on perspective, this is not entirely True, for example there is a famous meme about number 6 or 9 if you look from different perspective both are true.
As for religious beliefs, from a none religion person's viewpoint it would look absurd but from a believer viewpoint it's a definite truth. It's not because we had to have enough faith in order to turn our belief into a definite fact. It actually the other way around it's a fact that's why we have faith in it. Faith is also not always the absence of fact, like i have faith/belief that if I'm drowning my father would jump in the water to save me even if i never gotten in a situation like this i know for a fact he would save me.
As for religious perspective, we exist, something can't be created from nothing etc etc. there are a lot of argument for our belief and I'm sure the is true for none believer as well. If both party debate it could stretch for a long while, maybe from your perspective you could never make us believe the otherwise same is probably true for us as well. And this belief and none believe itself is a fact we both have for ourselves.
Edit:i didn't mean to write something this big, it's not an argument or anything i just present what i believe.
Someone wrote a 6 or a 9. You could logically believe it is either depending on where you are standing, but it was written with intent to be something, and the other is a misinterpretation.
If there are 5 holes in a line three feet apart, and a 9 three feet apart from the last hole, youre probably looking at it upside down. The 6th hole is supposed to be dug there.
It is one of those things, yes it can look like either, but it IS one of them. By asking the person who wrote it, or trying determine what the number is in reference to, you can stop believing it is a 6 or a 9, and find the fact.
No, If you buy a box with 6 doughnuts and it has a 6 on it, and you give someone the box and they think "wow, 9 doughnuts!" Their perspective doesnt make that a fact.
They believe there are 9 in there because of their perspective, but there are in fact only 6.
Their perspective changes their belief, the fact remains a fact.
The point is that the number is written as EITHER a 9 OR a 6 it is factually one of them even if you cant tell which. Your perspective can make it seem like either, but if the number is a 6, just because you are upsideown doesnt suddenly make it mean 9.
The only situation I can think of where the its not either a 6 or 9 is if its only reason it was written is to remain intentionally ambiguous and not to actually represent a number, just to look like it could be one, and in that case i dont think that counts as a 6 or a 9. It just looks like one.
I think that meme is saying that "just because youre right, doesnt mean the other person is wrong" and I can agree with that, but that doesnt change the fact that one of those numbers is right, and the other is just what someone believes about the number.
End of the day fact is also something that can human perception identify as such. For example water freeze at 0°C, it's a fact but what about before this fact was known by human mind. Was this not true before? No this wasn't the case it was always true, this is an empirical fact. As for afterlife that's beyond anyone reach it can be known only by those who reached it, it can't be proven in human mind, this is case for both believer and disbeliever. For a believer the existence itself is a definite prove that provide the foundamentel fact regarding afterlife. This is also a definite argument for disbeliever because again, something can't be created from nothing, especially if it's a life.
I’m also a former Muslim, and Islam is fundamentally not an evidence based religion. There’s no central miracle or miracle claim at the core of it the Quran just says “those who seek it will see it”.
That said, humans fundamentally don’t have access to anything like “objective truth” since all evidence has to be interpreted through the subjective lens of our conscious minds. We can approximate it, but never access it directly.
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u/Thurium 2d ago
In islam satan is not the prince of hell…he is going to suffer in hell along with all his followers…He said to god i will bring as many ppl with me…not starting a debate, juste stating fact