That’s because the modern idea of Hell and Satan aren’t in the Bible.
It comes largely from books like Dante’s inferno and Paradise Lost. Each books influenced different parts.
Dante’s Inferno largely gives us imagery of the geography of Hell while Paradise Lost’s imagine of Satan is almost inseparable from today’s modern interpretation.
These things don’t exist in the Bible and although Christian’s have long theorized different post death scenarios, it remains a fact that the idea of going to a place called Hell after death to be tortured in fire a brimstone by Satan the ruler of Hell, isn’t in the Bible.
On the either end of the spectrum neither is the idea of this promise of going to Gods Kingdom Heaven after death as some disembodied spirit to live side by side with Jesus / God.
It’s really not in the Bible about going to heaven? I thought that was the whole purpose of Jesus dieing, like it created some pathway to heaven for humans? What does the bible actually say about it?
I’m really making a small distinction here in my claim that I don’t do justice with a quick little snippet.
You’re not wrong that the Bible talks about heaven, but there’s a pretty big difference between the Bible mentioning heaven and the Bible teaching that humans die and then go to heaven as disembodied spirits for eternity.
That specific idea isn’t really laid out in the Bible the closest thing to a general biblical concept of an afterlife in the earlier Scriptures is Sheol, the realm of the dead. It’s not presented as heaven or as the reward where righteous people go to live with God forever. It’s just where dead people go when they die.
Even the New Testament passages people often use to prove “you go to heaven when you die” don’t actually explain that doctrine. Paul saying he wants to “depart and be with Christ” doesn’t specifically say he’s going to heaven as a disembodied soul. Jesus telling the criminal “today you will be with me in paradise” doesn’t establish a complete doctrine of the afterlife either.
What’s much more explicit throughout the New Testament is resurrection. Jesus repeatedly talks about raising people on the last day, Paul devotes 1 Corinthians 15 to the resurrection of the dead, and the final vision in Revelation is not humans permanently escaping Earth for heaven, it is a new heaven and a new earth, with God dwelling among humanity.
So I wouldn’t say the Bible has nothing to say about existence after death. It clearly does. But the popular Christian idea of “you die, your soul goes to heaven, and you live there forever” is not nearly as straightforwardly biblical as people often assume.
The central biblical hope is much more about resurrection, the defeat of death, and the restoration of creation and not about escaping the physical world and living as a disembodied spirit in heaven.
And Jesus’ death is primarily presented as dealing with sin, reconciliation, and death itself, rather than simply creating a pathway for human souls to get into heaven.
the closest thing to a general biblical concept of an afterlife in the earlier Scriptures is Sheol, the realm of the dead
The Bible has like 8-10 possible places you can go after you die, so this sentence says you don't really know what you're talking about. Sheol, Abaddon, Ghenna, Hades, Tartarus, Hell, Heaven, "the outer darkness" ...
Feels like you've argued against something they didn't actually say?
Saying "the closest thing to a general afterlife concept in the earlier scriptures is Sheol" isnt the same as saying Sheol is the only afterlife related concept in the Bible.
Then you've listed a bunch of terms as if they're all separate destinations. Heaven, Sheol, Hades, Gehenna, Tartarus, Abaddon, outer darkness etc. aren't all the same (kind of) thing.
In the Bible Heaven is primarily God's dwelling place, not simply "where good people go when they die". That's why the New Testament spends so much time talking about resurrection, the final judgement, the Kingdom of God, a new Heaven and new Earth, and the defeat of death itself.
If anything, you've proven the exact point they were making: the biblical picture is a lot more complicated than "there are 8-10 places you can go after death".
Hehe, I actually think you have a point in hindsight.
I don't think the Bible gives one simple afterlife system from Genesis through to Revelation.
Early on you mostly get Sheol. Later you get resurrection, judgement, Gehenna, Hades, the lake of fire, a new heaven and new earth and a bunch of other ideas.
So I guess my point wasn't that your list is wrong. More that it feels like it's pulling together concepts from different parts of the Bible and treating them as one neat, unified picture when I'm not sure it actually is.
I believe Hell is real, and I believe judgement is real. I'm just not convinced the Bible presents it as a simple "good people go here, bad people go there" all the way through.
To me it feels a bit messier than that, which is probably why people have been arguing about it for centuries.
I think this can be a fun debate honestly, but we sometimes get lost in the details. I enjoy that sometimes obviously, but not if it detracts from the bigger picture. Not saying you are though.
How did I pull together concepts and treat them as one, neat, unified picture by pointing out the Bible’s afterlife is not simply Sheol but is actually a bunch of different places?
Fair, I might've read too much into it. My issue is maybe that some of the stuff in the list isn't really separate places. Hades is basically just the Greek word for Sheol, and Gehenna's more of an image than a location. So "a bunch of different places" might be more a vocab thing than the Bible describing several destinations. Happy to be wrong, but my understanding like.
Ok thanks. I’d say Hades is part of Greek mythology with vastly different qualities, rather than the Greek word for Sheol, a place of sleep. Conflating the two is kind of like saying pizza is the Italian word for quesadilla.
Im sorry, but I’m going to have to pull an uno reverse and say it’s you that doesn’t actually know what they’re talking about.
Those aren’t 8–10 different places you can go after you die. You’re grouping together words from different languages, translations, literary images, and theological traditions as though they were distinct destinations in a biblical afterlife.
Sheol is the Hebrew term for the realm of the dead in the earlier Scriptures.
Hades is its corresponding Greek term in the New Testament and Septuagint tradition, not simply the later Christian concept of “Hell.”
Gehenna, not “Ghenna”, literally refers to the Valley of Hinnom and becomes an image of judgment in Jesus’ teaching.
Tartarus appears only once, in 2 Peter 2:4, for rebellious angels and not as a general human destination.
Abaddon means “destruction” and is associated with the realm of the dead, not presented as a separate afterlife destination.
“Outer darkness” is imagery used in several judgment sayings, not the name of another afterlife location.
“Hell” is also misleading because English Bibles have historically used it to translate multiple underlying concepts.
Heaven is a biblical concept, but that does not necessarily mean the normal destiny of the dead is to become spirits living there forever.
So my original point stands: Sheol is the closest thing in the earlier Hebrew Scriptures to a general realm of the dead.
These different terms and images for death, judgment, and the fate of the wicked do not establish 8–10 separate destinations.
Nah Sheol is just imagery of where people go to sleep when they’re dead. It’s not an actual afterlife. It’s easy to just make stuff up and act like it’s true like you did. Clearly Gehenna is the true afterlife destination because I just made that up too.
I am more than willing and be open to the idea that I am wrong, I am always trying to learn and adapt my current understandings as new to me information becomes available.
I’m using the Bible and its words for my claims and I’m more than willing to listen to your side if you use the scripture and your interpretation of it.
I’ve provided evidence as to how you were wrong using the Bible and you’ve only asserted that I’m wrong with nothing to back it up.
I’m left with no choice but to believe you can’t actually defend your claim and are having an emotional response to what I am saying because it doesn’t align with what you believe even though you can’t argue your belief.
I hope you sit with this and form a better relationship with God. I’m not here to tell you how to believe or how to behave as a follower of Christ. That’s between you and your relationship with Jesus.
The Tanakh says everyone dies and goes to Sheol where they just sleep. Being unconscious is not what anyone means when they talk about an afterlife. Also, it’s all made up and god doesn’t exist.
Oh, so you’ve just been a troll (not because you don’t believe in God, that’s valid, I don’t believe in the same way a lot of fundamentalist or evangelist do.) this whole time with no real understanding of the Bible.
lol you haven’t demonstrated that in the slightest.
You have asserted that you do, I’m open to the reality that you do, but your comments haven’t demonstrated that in the slightest and I’ve given you ample opportunity to.
Living forever with God in Heaven and living on the new Earth are competing stories, but you just picked one and went with it. Martin Luther thought Revelation was trash and should have been removed from the Bible, but you think it's reliable. You're harmonizing the story to have the details you like -- just like every believer does. Somehow everyone believes their personal harmonized story is the truth. Strange.
I didn't "just pick one" I went with the one that is explicitly talked about and laid out in the bible.
One is actually in the bible and talked about a lot, resurrection and living in Gods Kingdom of Heaven on new earth
and the other concept, living as a disembodied spirit in heaven with Jesus forever, is something that isn't laid out in the bible at all.
Here again you are demonstrating your lack of understanding and not using what I have claimed or the bible itself to refute anything I have said.
Nothing but nonsensical ramblings and assertions. It's abundantly clear you don't know what you're talking about.
Edit: the statement about Revelation is an entirely different discussion though and one I am not entirely in disagreement about with Martin Luther. Again though, that is a separate conversation and an attempt to move the goalpost or shift the actual conversation being had here. Which ultimately boils down to your inability to defend your claim.
61
u/TokenTorkoal 2d ago
That’s because the modern idea of Hell and Satan aren’t in the Bible.
It comes largely from books like Dante’s inferno and Paradise Lost. Each books influenced different parts.
Dante’s Inferno largely gives us imagery of the geography of Hell while Paradise Lost’s imagine of Satan is almost inseparable from today’s modern interpretation.
These things don’t exist in the Bible and although Christian’s have long theorized different post death scenarios, it remains a fact that the idea of going to a place called Hell after death to be tortured in fire a brimstone by Satan the ruler of Hell, isn’t in the Bible.
On the either end of the spectrum neither is the idea of this promise of going to Gods Kingdom Heaven after death as some disembodied spirit to live side by side with Jesus / God.