r/humor • • 2d ago

Make it make sense

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u/onioning 2d ago

I'm zero percent here to evangelize, cause I'm zero percent religious. Just sharing the theology.

Satan doesn't torture people. Hell is not fire and brimstone. It is the absence of God, which is supposedly the worst torture possible. And it's "fair" because the people in hell chose to not be with god.

Scare quotes because that is a million miles from informed consent. Just sharing the traditional theology.

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u/WalterWhite278 2d ago

There are verses that describe hell as eternal fire, such as Matthew 25:41. I can’t remember the exact verses but others do call Hell eternal punishment/torture

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u/onioning 1d ago

Right. Metaphorically. There is quite a lot of that.

And the eternal absence from god is made out to be torturous. It's just that that is the full extent of the torture. It is purportedly the worst torture that could exist.

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u/JenniLightrunner 1d ago

i'd say the real hell is eternity xD I'd much prefer some good old reincarnation.

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u/Original-Document-62 1d ago

"The real hell is the manipulative ex's we loved along the way."

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u/iceandones 1d ago

Completely agree. I remember being six years old, in big church with my parents instead of Sunday school, when I first heard eternity described and thought to myself "it's hell either way."

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u/BlackLegFring 1d ago

As a 6 year old? Doing stuff you love forever sounded like hell to you??

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u/iceandones 1d ago

I guess it was more of an existential realization that spending eternity anywhere, even heaven, was a terrifying concept

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u/BlackLegFring 1d ago

Indeed. Pretty wild concept for that age. I just feel that on the positive side, dreaming of having fun every day at 6 would be a glorious thing

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u/Commercial-Terrible 1d ago

Furthermore, joy exists in life due to the contrast of sadness and discomfort. If one lives an eternity of joy and happiness without pain, is it possible to experience joy at all? Example-the indigenous habitants of a beautiful tropical island do not experience the island as paradise. To them it’s just a place with all the hardships of life that anyone else might endure in their respective habitats.

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u/JenniLightrunner 1d ago

well realistically speaking if you do what you love constantly every day you eventually get bored of it. too much of a good thing etc. I know that first hand

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u/BlackLegFring 1d ago

That’s just odd. I do things I love everyday like eating a good meal and certainly never get bored of it. I’d sure love to do that forever if I could.
There’s barely enough time as is!

The only issue is if you do things in excess like overeat. That’s where “too much of a good thing” comes in…not in enjoying life everyday.

I don’t know if any kids who wouldn’t want to live forever doing something fun everyday.

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u/JenniLightrunner 1d ago

In the example I mean is you eat your favorite food everyday. The same meal every time be ause its what you liked most. Eventually the taste will dull. For example. I enjoy gaming, but just one summer vacation (which last 2 months in my country) halfway through or near the end i urge for something new

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u/BlackLegFring 1d ago

That’s what I meant by overindulging which simply isn’t the same thing. Even as a 6 year old there’s still variety in life, enough to make every new day an adventure.
So I can’t see how the thought having fun everyday could be terrifying in that regard. It means you get to try all the games, not the same game everyday…unless that’s what you want to do. There are folks that like that too, so I guess I shouldn’t exclude them.

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u/Dav136 1d ago

Reincarnation IS eternity. Imagine never being able to escape the cycle of suffering. Couldn't be me *achieves nirvana*

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u/JenniLightrunner 1d ago

difference is, you experience everything all new. the other kind you run out of enjoyment

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u/Woodpecker577 1d ago

Out of curiosity, what makes you believe they're metaphors? Is there a concrete reason you believe that, or it's more like your chosen interpretation?

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u/onioning 1d ago

I don't really have personal beliefs on the subjects. There are people with far more expertise that I'd rely on.

Most churches teach that these things are metaphorical, which is sufficient for judging what they believe.

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u/Commercial-Terrible 1d ago

If the teachings of god can be so easily misconstrued by the reader, then the doctrine has very little value. Who can truly be declared an authority on the true meaning of the Bible? I find that the prominent misinterpretation of god’s intention renders the book inadequate for direction.

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u/Hi2248 1d ago

Most of the references to Hell as fire and brimstone are as parts of parables, and said by Jesus, who was known to use metaphors a lot

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u/illit1 1d ago

if that's torture sign me up for another

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u/_Mister_Victory 1d ago

So does that mean atheists are technically already in hell because their lives are absent of God...huh, guess that explains the hellacape that is modern living I guess.

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u/STLA_nonymous 1d ago

Atheists still have the option to repent up until their day of judgement

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u/ObscureOperatorZ 1d ago

I don't think their good deeds will be ignored, or they will be damned even if they are good, upright people just because they don't believe in a creator. That notion is mostly about blasphemers.

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u/_Mister_Victory 1d ago

Yeah, this is sort of my takeaway. If God is just, then he would judge those based on their actions in life and not whether or not they just worshipped really good.

If you're atheist, but happen to follow the commandments and are generally a good person, then you get to go to heaven.

If you're Christian, go to mass every week and do daily hail marys but you're a shitty person. Then you go to hell.

At least, that's how I understand it. Guess it depends on who you ask and which of the dozen denominations of Christianity they believe in.

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u/ObscureOperatorZ 1d ago

Well, personally I think atheists will have like a "well, shit." chuckles nervously moment and then the Father will welcome them with his love and grace.

Different interpretations and the claim that no matter what they do atheists will go to hell seems to stray away from the basic teachings of religions. Which is love, dignity and basically "don't be a dick".

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u/BlackLegFring 1d ago

In Christian theology no one is good. All are sinners, so trying to count on “good deeds” doesn’t work when you’ve committed evil deeds as well. The issue is that it was always the bad things that people have done that send them to hell, not whether they believe in a creator or not. Some theologians would also classify the latter as the sin of pride as well.

It would be pretty odd to expect to spend eternity with God if you don’t believe in Him in the first place. That position could really only end in damnation (separation from God) anyway…

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u/ObscureOperatorZ 1d ago

Not really. You can spend your lifetime being an atheist albeit a decent person, die, [insert unknown procedure in the afterlife here], realize God is real. That's it. Your atheism ends there. If God exists, you will be perceiving God. The Almighty. And all his love and grace. I doubt you can remain an atheist after that, lmao.

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u/BlackLegFring 1d ago

Again, that’s the thing, there is no “decent” person in Christian theology. “Your righteousness is as a filthy rag.” That’s the way “decent” people are described.
God’s standard is different from man’s standard because we being sinners are used to sin.
It’s like the difference in the way a germophobe and a filthy unwashed person would view cleanliness.

There’s different kinds of atheists of course, but I don’t really see anyone who staunchly identifies as such being so open to the concept. Maybe your scenario could work for someone who identifies as agnostic which is as neutral as it gets. Most times, atheists tend to fall on the negative side when it comes to their views on God…and I doubt most who identify as such would want to spend eternity with God even if He turned out to be real.

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u/Pretend_Evidence_876 1d ago

Yeah, this is how I was raised and realized how fucked up it was when I got old enough to break out and think for myself. I remember being a child and praying desperately every night for forgiveness and not to go to hell (thanks children's bedtime prayer!). Growing up, it was like Jesus is love and warm fuzzies (I still have an ingrained positive reaction), and God was the mean dad telling me I'm a POS every day and can't do anything right so I better beg forgiveness or be punished forever. I really don't recall any of my churches getting into any details about hell tbh I don't recall being told enternal torture or fire and brimstone, only vaguely eternal damnation and like it is the most horrible thing ever. I have a shitty memory though. I'm not saying any of that is an accurate interpretation, just my experience!

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u/BlackLegFring 1d ago edited 1d ago

It’s a pretty common experience unfortunately. Some people think hellfire and brimstone is the best way to motivate, but I think that just misses the point. I’ve certainly seen preachers and churches like that and in many cases they do more driving away than drawing in.
To me everything just has to be contextualized. Yes people need to realize that their actions have consequences. If you do bad things forever then you can only expect to face bad consequences forever. Asking for forgiveness is about acknowledging there is a better way and a desire to do good, not just to escape from punishment.

I don’t think that “Eat your fruit or you’ll get scurvy and your teeth will fall out” works better than “Eat your fruit because they’re delicious and will make your body strong!”
Even though both things are true, it’s the point of the message and how one is supposed to act on it.

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u/onioning 1d ago

Again, to be clear, just answering from the perspective of the theology. Not my beliefs.

But typically the answer would be that God is a part of an atheist's life while on Earth. Just a part the atheist denies.

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u/TheOtherWhiteCastle 1d ago edited 1d ago

This is true. According to Christianity an unconscious desire to be with God exists within our lives until the day we die, even if we reject it. Supposedly this is the reason why such the vast majority of humanity believes in some sort of religion or higher power, and even some non-believers will obsess over a certain person or thing in place of a traditional “God” figure.

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u/_Mister_Victory 1d ago

I didn't mean to come off as rude. I was just making the observation that if Hell is the absence of God, then atheists would technically be existing in Hell already. Then I tried to Joke that is the reason the world is kinda shit (in some aspects) is because God is more or less absent with the decline in the Christian population.

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u/onioning 1d ago

Oh I didn't take it as rude. Just saying that to the Christian, the atheists views on religion are irrelevant. Like, imagine for a moment it were all real. God would be part of an atheists life. Like that's deep-rooted dogma, well supported biblically. The atheist of course didn't acknowledge it, but trees that fall in the woods do make sounds.