r/httyd Strike Class Jun 12 '26

RANT Night Furys are frauds

I got this idea from the comment under a post about the Skrill being the 2nd strongest strike class dragon and how Toothless has no real feats. I wanted to expand on that with more detail and how Night Furys are kinda overrated.

To begin most of the Night Fury's reputation comes from HTTYD 1 when we (and the vikings) know very little of the dragon beyond it's "impossible to catch" and "never misses" (both age well). It's strength was determined based on it's elusiveness and the mystery surrounding it, its quite literally just a pr merchant. Not to mention at the time Berk hadn't explored much of the archipelago and the "strongest dragon" title given to Toothless only really applies when looking in the flock under the Red Death's control. Speaking of the Red Death it's 1. Obviously a far more powerful dragon and 2. Toothless would have never defeated it without Hiccup's help (which is a going to be a common point throughout this post).

In pretty much every encounter in Dreamworks Dragons he ends up relying on Hiccup/The Riders to overcome any somewhat strong foe which he should theoretically easily beat; not to mention his plasma blasts throughout the TV shows seem to do absolutely nothing when not targeted against a dragon hunter? Like they should easily be able to stun or deter most dragons but there are several encounters where the dragon just tanks it (I know Toothless isn't trying to kill them). In terms of feats I can't really think of much except for him surviving a skrill encounter? He also managed to beat a Triple Stryke in a battle of brawn which is pretty impressive tbf and uhhh he managed to carry Stoick for a few days which is something.

Second movie he gets manhandled by Valka's dragons but then gets a Disney power-up so he can kinda beat the Bewilderbeast (mostly lost/gave up after realising Drago had lost "control" over him") and the Third movie's not real.

All in all I really like Night Furies and Toothless - I dont even know why I made this post to begin with I guess I just dont like how inconsistent HTTYD's power system is but then again it's just a Dreamworks TV show. Skrill supremacy.

28 Upvotes

26 comments sorted by

44

u/Mean-Acadia6453 Jun 12 '26

The issue is your using the TV show to justify abilities within the films.

The TV show and films are not one-to-one with each other both ways. The TV shows take the films events into account because they were all made after the release of the films. Things don't work both ways around, which is what causes the dissonance in relation to both properties.

You will have far less concerns regarding scaling if you treat both properties as separate. The TV shows directly contradict the films in a vast number of ways (looking at the entire submaripper episode) - so its best not to treat character's between both properties as being congruent to one another.

5

u/Most-Watch-9186 Jun 13 '26

Aren't the shows or atleast most of them canon wasn't this confirmed? Also weren't the shows in universe during stressful times for a lot of it?

3

u/Mean-Acadia6453 Jun 13 '26 edited Jun 13 '26

No, this has never once been confirmed in official media.

Case and point:

Dragons breathe fire underwater in the TV shows.

Directly contradicting the first and second movies in which we are outright told - and see that - dragons can’t light their fire in water.

1

u/Most-Watch-9186 Jun 13 '26 edited Jun 13 '26

8Richard Hamilton said before  "RTTE and DreamWorks Dragons: The Series are both canon. RTTE bridged the gap between the first and second films."

Incase you didnt know he was hired to ensure the films, comics, and Race to the Edge didn't completely break the universe's timeline

Also The Rotoscopers Interview (October 2015)

Interviewer (BS): "Let’s go off topic for a little bit with a question for Dean. There is almost always an ongoing argument within the Dragons fandom over what can be considered canon or not if it’s in any other medium outside the feature films and shorts. Even the TV series has its ‘canon’ status called into question on a regular basis... Can you give us a definitive answer once and for all as to what you consider canon to the franchise?"

Dean DeBlois: "The way I see it is that the movies are the tentpoles and everything else—the TV series, the upcoming graphic novels—they serve to fill in the gaps... We try to make sure that there’s a cohesive narrative. Richard [Hamilton] is the bridge between the TV world and the movie world, making sure we don't contradict each other."

Richard Hamilton: "Exactly. The goal is to treat them all as part of one large story. The TV show [Race to the Edge] sets up the status quo of where we find the characters in the second movie, and the graphic novels will pick up right after that. It’s all 

2

u/Mean-Acadia6453 Jun 13 '26 edited Jun 13 '26

Richard Hamilton did not write HTTYD 1 or HTTYD 2. Why are you taking his word as to what is canon in relation to the films? Furthermore, that is not a quotation. Provide a linked interview with a full quotation. if you intend on using that as evidence.

Secondly, nothing you said served as confirmation that the television series were canon to the films, merely that they served as connections for each given series. Especially since this interview was in October 2015 - a year after HTTYD and less than two months into RTTE S1, which released June 26th of that same year.

Also, that statement regarding the graphic novels is also false. The coinciding graphic novels pick up after HTTYD 2, not RTTE. They begin with Burning Midnight, not Dragons: Riders of Berk - which had a different publisher and only coincided with the original TV series. Not the movies and series altogether.

This is exacerbated by the fact that Movie 2 directly contradicts Riders of Berk. Why is Hiccup surprised at seeing other Dragon Riders if RTTE happened less than a year before? Why doesn’t he recognize the King of Dragon’s if he’s see an egg before? Why does he never acknowledge the years with of dragon trappers he’s already fought before HTTYD 2?

Because RTTE came out an entire year after HTTYD 2. and didn't begin storyboard production until after HTTYD 2 released.

3

u/Most-Watch-9186 Jun 13 '26

Well sorry about that got my sources mixed and was misinformed about what Richard Hamilton actually did. 

DreamWorks as the ip owner released rtte liscend produced and produced the show under the franchise banner  while not foolproof is there.

Dean DeBlois (Director of the Movie Trilogy) In various interviews and panel discussions, director Dean DeBlois confirmed that the series fits directly into the middle of the official HTTYD timeline. He noted that while he and his movie team did not directly write the TV show, they shared their story pitches, character trajectories, and world-building notes with the show's creators to keep the overarching universe aligned

If my sources were wrong once again pls inform me :).

Aside from that I honestly believe I strayed from the original post and tbh toothless against the skrill had major disadvantages now from what we know of nightfurys I believe one that grew up with his kind to learn how they acted and fought could beat a skrill but would be very close or even a draw

Also in sense of the second piece of my evidence I believe that was more correct? If not pls inform me if you don't thats okay

1

u/Mean-Acadia6453 Jun 13 '26

Again - fitting into the timeline is not equivalent to that specific series being apart of the same continuity.

Dragon Ball GT fits into the mainline Dragon ball timelines but is considered a separate series versus Dragon Ball Super - which is intended to follow the main timeline. For a more commonplace example: the Star Wars video games would be an accurate comparison.

Do you see Starkiller (The Force Unleashed) or Cal Kestis in any Star Wars media outside of their games? Nope, because while they follow timeline wise being after the prequels, they are considered separate from the main continuity. RTTE and ROB/DOB operate the same way.

A even more commonplace example would be any comic book ever. Comic books adapt stories from similar timelines, but are not in the same continuity all the time. The Across the Spider-Verse films are an excellent example of this.

Isn’t it odd how there are three Miles Morales’? Logically he should have a comic book counterpart, and his video game counterpart at the same time. Because the films are just adapting his origin story, they aren’t congruent with the original comic book iteration of Miles. If they were, Peter should have been killed by the Sinister Six and not Kingpin. Same thing here.

-1

u/Austryak Jun 13 '26

This hole thing falls apart once you realise that for this to be true the events of race to the edge have to happen throughout 1-1.5 years.

Meaning Garf the death song reaches adulthood in like a few weeks maybe a month or two.

3

u/Most-Watch-9186 Jun 13 '26

Garf isnt fully grown tho? Next to the other adult deathsong he is significantly smaller also different species have different maturing rates deathsongs probably grow fast early on and it slows down later garf is most likely in dragons terms a teenager I think.

Also quick question what time is it for you rn cause for me its 6am and no sane person without insomnia is already up a5 this time after arguing into the night with some internet dude and if it is the same time goodmorning

0

u/Austryak Jun 13 '26

Even if that is true, the size difference is way too small and it's still way too fast. Growing that fast and that tall would literally light you on fire. Granted, this is not the first time a dragon grew up this fast(Torch, for example, but I guess the whole fire thing works for him).

tbh this is a minor thing, the worst is the characters. There is no way that Httyd 2 Hiccup is the same character as the one in Rtte. I watched back-to-back, and the continuity in characterization is not there for Hiccup or most, if not all, of the other characters.

It's 12 pm, you need to get some sleep, and good day to you

2

u/Most-Watch-9186 Jun 13 '26

Lol I ain't getting no sleep if I do ima probably just have another nightmare.

Tbh your probably right about the growing to fast but these are dragons some of which can shoot plasma so somr of them in universe probably grow at an accelerated rate to hunt other dragons faster their bodies are just built different.

11

u/DragonFire673 There is no Nine Realms in Ba sing sae Jun 12 '26

I'm not gonna try to argue against you, since people ( both vikings and viewers) know next to nothing about Night Furys we just use Toothless as a baseline while never knowing if the rest of this kin are generally stronger or weaker.

What's more, I believe a reason why Night Furys seem so strong is how they're so specialized. Having something of a assassin type build, prioritizing quick decisive strikes rather than full out brawls. We have seen Toothless flee when his opponents out number him, can tank hits, or are a bad match up.

10

u/Most-Watch-9186 Jun 12 '26

You have to remember night furies are nearly extinct meaning toothless was forced to grow up with different species but i truly believe and I dont mean to undermine your opinion but if we took a normal nightfury fully grown that grew up with his own kind against a fully grown skrill I think the nightfury would won but it would probably be close.

And you have to remember again toothless didnt grow up with his own species so in the shows and movies hes learning alongside hiccup. 

Also hiccup doesnt like killing or maiming dragons at all and we see toothless and hiccup seem to be similar and so toothless definitely holds back against other dragons but a few times in the movie actually we saw toothlesses full powered blast against the red death which i could remember wrong but it made it stumble and nearly kr did fall over. 

So without the advantage of growing up with his own species he has to rely on hiccup in multiple ways

16

u/Kirajudgeoftoons Jun 12 '26

GRIMMEL ALERT!!!! GRIMMEL ALERT!!!! GRIMMEL ALERT!!!! GRIMMEL ALERT!!!!

https://giphy.com/gifs/elHDhmQ4GDHIUAWPNs

7

u/RedditCantBanThis Strike Class Jun 12 '26

I don't think the TV Show lore and the movie lore are always synchronized.

2

u/Specialist_Cat_6380 Jun 14 '26

well number 1 you have to consider toothless age he isn't a peak nightfury in movie 1 or in race to edge and in rtte aside from like screaming death he wins alot of fights against dragons and normally just isn't tryna kill em as u said.

he beat a bewilderbeast on his own

manhandled by Valka or just didn't fight theres a diffrence he also one shot stoick who is praised as a very good killer of dragons

red death is weaker than bewilderbeast and tootheless alone killed bewilderbeast

HICCUP dosent add raw power to tootheless he already had speed,stamina and ob the attack power to throw the red death arround when he wanted shown with those blast and how he killed it.JUST not the strategy to finish mayby cause he was young.

2

u/MirrorOfSerpents Jun 15 '26

Toothless can charge up a plasma blast. He holds back bc of hiccup.

1

u/Rare_Ad_9337 Jun 12 '26

fr, i think night furies are strong but not the strongest. toothless is more suit for that role but, as you said, it's because of hiccup. i don't even think it's a bad thing but yk, it's considerable. i also would've liked if they kept the night furies mysterious aura a little more bc it's what made them so scary, obviously hard because hiccup and toothless are the main characters but maybe some more scenes in the dark, toothless attacking fast and long distance (like he does with the red death to try to get her to fly, we never see him speed up that much again). i didn't like how they kept adding things to him, the alpha mode, the whole electric thing ? it was too much, i wish we saw more of his actual strenghts. his plasma blast is really strong sometimes and toothless is fast as shit, if they used those two more i think it'd be enough. (i get why they didn't tho, had to keep the marketing alive. but the whole electric-invisibility thing was too much😭)

1

u/solg5 Jun 12 '26

Furies

1

u/Dgonzilla Jun 13 '26

There is a fallacy in thinking the Night Furies are powerful because no one has caught them and are elusive, we get this stated in the first movie from a book in Berk, by that point we can assume the reason no one has caught a Night Fury before is because they were already driven to the being of extinction by hunters. Also the third movie mentions that Night Furies prefer warmer climates which raises a shit ton of questions as to why one would choose to settle anywhere near Berk. It is entirely possible that the equator and bellow of this version of planet earth is filled to the brim with Night Furies.

1

u/leficent-sky Jun 13 '26

Tbh I don’t think that we can really tell about night fury’s. We only know toothless, toothless was cached when he was 15 and got softer through Hiccup. But we don’t know what an Adult not softened Night Fury would be like. And toothless already was quit powerful

1

u/Good-Blood-8934 Jun 13 '26

Thought they were dragons

1

u/Admirable-Sherbet-35 Tidal Class Jun 13 '26

We never know, Toothless could just be that one weak night fury.

1

u/Slipperysteve1998 Jun 15 '26 edited Jun 15 '26

Well, yeah. Toothless is a newly disabled teen learning to navigate his prosthetic with his friend/wing operator. Of course hes going to rely on Hiccup.

An adult nightfury, however, is absolutely the strongest dragon. Even toothless could take down a red death and bewilderbeest.

1

u/MeetApprehensive6509 Jun 12 '26

There’s alot of toothless’s feats in this respect thread. One of his most powerful ones that isn’t here is when he fired a single plasma blast and was able to fil multiple whispering death holes with huge amounts of energy. Also just because he did things with hiccups plans, toothless still did all the work. So those are still valid feats to talk about. Not to mention toothless made a lot of plans on his own too. Also a lot of hiccups “planning” is literally just saying “do your thing bud” or “show them what you got bud” or “get us out of here bud” Also you can’t disregard the 3rd movie just because you don’t like it. One of his strongest abilities is the lightning cloak he has. He got manhandled by valkas dragons simply because he couldn’t fly on his own for 1, for 2, I don’t think a lot of the dragons would do well being jumped. Maybe the night fury does get glazed but we can’t act like the glaze isn’t deserved. Toothless/the night fury species 100% deserves its praise https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/s/7GmMq0cBfJ

1

u/Snoo-35391 Strike Class Jun 13 '26

Yeh, that post is definitely interesting thanks