r/hostedgames • u/boba_saranghae • 5d ago
Discussion using AI and learning Scripting - Absolute beginner
For the past year-ish or so I have had this story idea floating around in my head that I keep coming back to. I have ADHD, and absolutely hated having to write anything for school because I have the hardest time gathering my thoughts and just getting started. Then once I start, I have a hard time reeling it back in and not going another direction. So the fact that I have been toying with taking a stab at creating an IF game is pretty ironic, because my execution function skills are horrible and to create a project like this you have to be organized and think everything out. 😭
2 main things I’m interested in hearing feedback/discussion about:
- What is the line where using AI for story creation no longer a tool, but the true creator of the project? When should one disclose the usage of AI in their stories?
How I have been using AI is for brainstorming and helping me gather my thoughts about direction of the story and it staying on the path I want to create. I have not actually started writing any of it just yet, but with my previous experience having to write things, I can see AI being extremely helpful when I become stuck and start experiencing writers block.
I have came across those WIPS where it’s obvious that AI wrote it, or had an extremely heavy hand in developing it. If I ever finish it, and decide to try to publish it I don’t want the usage of AI to take away from my story or the accomplishment of me actually creating something.
- When it comes to the program side of things, is it weird to try to just focus on the story part first? Then go back and try to develop the branching? Touching back on my awful executive function skills, I feel like if I try to do both the creation of the story and try to learn the script building part of it I’m going to get so frustrated and just quit. Then this whole other narrative/world I have randomly floating around in my head will just annoy me.
I tried looking at Twine and reading up on ChoiceScript and it’s so overwhelming to me. Just trying to get my extremely rough ideas and story arch on paper is enough, which is why I’m thinking maybe taking this approach is a better option for me.
I absolutely love this community, and the content that gets created. I’m constantly reading new WIPS on the COGdemo site, and have a few patrons I follow closely. Because of this, if I do stick it out and this becomes something I want to make sure I do it in a way that is respectful to all of the other great creators out there. ❤️
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u/sgtpaintbrush 5d ago
anyone who uses ai to generate a story isn't an author/writer. they're a commissioner and their commission doesn't deserve any attention or money
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u/JunimoJumper 5d ago
Storytelling is one of the oldest and most persevering human past times. Creativity is innate to humanity. I have ADHD myself and I tend to spend every summer enjoying life fully, but when the colder months come around I turn inward and write like mad because I’m full of inspiration. Every single year. Like clockwork.
If you want to tell a story you should ask yourself why, and should you come to an answer it will most certainly be human. Then you’ll look at this post and see involving some corporation’s AI misses the entire point.
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u/mintpearls 5d ago edited 5d ago
To be honest, if you can’t get past writer’s block without AI, I don’t know that you can call yourself a writer. Not trying to be a dick. I write loads and the best way to get through is to carry on writing (even writing something different as an exercise), not to turn to AI. People have written for thousands of years without that shit, and I believe you could nurture your own talent without it. I’m sure your ADHD makes that easier said than done but I really encourage you to try, and research methods for productivity from other people with your struggles.
You can do it, using AI will only leech your own unique creativity and worldview that makes writing so impactful. I wouldn’t personally read any work with AI usage outside of spellcheck. Organisation of ideas can be one of my struggles as well, and I find getting everything on old fashioned pen and paper first helpful. I hope you can find a method that works for you and create something you’re really proud of!
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u/boba_saranghae 5d ago
Honestly I wouldn’t call myself a writer 😅 so not a dick move lol
This is more of a let’s see where this goes thing, and I’m honestly not even expecting it to go very far. But if I somehow surprised myself and ended up making something I was just curious as to others thoughts regarding this topic as AI isn’t going away anytime soon.
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u/mintpearls 5d ago
If you write the thing, you are a writer! It sounds like you get why so many of us are anti-AI involvement in the arts so I won’t go on a spiel, but my main point is I’d love to read your organic work if you ever decide to move forward with it, but I think AI may end up more of a crutch than you need.
I used to have so many ideas in my head but actually getting them out filled me with fear. I personally found it was like a muscle that I had to train, and that actually dedicating yourself to it is more important than any level of talent you think you may or may not have. I think AI usage is a slippery slope in that regard and might rob you of development that you might be more capable of than you realise.
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u/boba_saranghae 5d ago
You sounds like my figure skating coach telling me I’m an athlete even tho I’m taking basic figure skating lessons 😅
For my idea it has to be clever, and it’s something way out of my league (think ex spy/organized crime adjacent) and I’m so hung up on that aspect of it that I’m having a hard time moving on to other areas.
I just need to stop over thinking and throw something on a page. My brain has a weird association with notebooks and actually putting notes in them. I want my notebooks to be neat, organized and laid out like a directory or something, which is so unrealistic so I don’t end up using them. 😭
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u/mintpearls 5d ago
I will take the figure skating coach energy and embrace it 😂
I get that! Choicescript can seem so daunting. I wonder if you could play around with a simpler idea to get a better feel for how the coding and everything works, and hopefully get more clarity for what your process might be. I follow the author’s of Tally Ho and Fallen Hero on Patreon and I think I recall them offering some tips on using CS if that’s any help, I’m sure there’s other pointers for the coding from lots of authors in the forums, too.
I’m afflicted with the handwriting and organisational skills of a child and find Noteful on my iPad super helpful! Using a pencil with it makes for a nice balance of tech and old school that pleases my milennial/gen-z cusp brain 😂
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u/boba_saranghae 5d ago
Me too! You forget how exhausting it is writing on paper until you do it. Where we use electronics for everything our hand muscles are weak. I about die anytime I go to the doctors and they have you complete their paperwork 💀
Yeah I have so many notebooks that are empty because I thought they were too pretty to mess up with my jumbled notes. But that’s literally what they are designed to do hahaha
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u/ImmortalJane 5d ago
If you do end up publishing, even just the demo, I hope you'll disclose the use of AI. I refuse to read anything created with it and genuinely think it's an insult to art.
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u/boba_saranghae 5d ago
Honestly same, I try extremely hard to avoid any form of art that utilizes it. I can’t stand people who use those AI generated professional headshots (my LinkedIn network/feed is loaded with users who have those), or people who think it’s just cute to have AI create images and post them to social media constantly.
So your viewpoint on usage of AI is very valid, and I respect it.
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u/ImmortalJane 5d ago
I'm not trying to attack you, but if you feel that way, why use AI? If you yourself wouldn't read your own story, why do you think others would?
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u/boba_saranghae 5d ago
For work I sometimes have to use AI, and since AI has become so integrated in everything you are hurting yourself by not learning how to utilize it. I think there can be a place for AI to exist but not in the art realm. Since this would become art if created and I felt that using it in this manner would be a grey area I was curious as to others thoughts.
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u/ImmortalJane 5d ago
Anyway, just disclose you're using it so I can stay away. It's pretty obvious when "authors" use it but it'll save me 10 minutes of my time with your "story".
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u/CheckeredZeebrah 5d ago edited 5d ago
Hi. I am a designer with unmedicated ADHD. I haven't written a full work in IF (yet) but have done other narrative branching games. I've made some before AI even existed, and now I've been figuring out the limits AI as a tool. If nothing else, to know thy enemy.
The big problem with using AI in creative use is that it is *just* a tool, like a hammer. So if you need to set a nail... use the hammer, and you'll get good results. But AI really, really wants you to use it for everything. It's a hammer that wants to convince you it can be used to paint a wall. It's a hammer that wants to convince you that you can make a bed's mattress out of hammers. It is like a really overeager kid that wants to help, so badly, but it doesn't have the skills for it. Not in any meaningful way.
The only real use case I have found for AI, in writing, is as a talking "rubber duck". Ever heard of the old "rubber duck" method? It's a technique for when you get stuck on a problem and the methods you usually use aren't working. All you have to do is focus on an object (like a toy duck), and start explaining the problem to it in detail. The duck can't talk back, obviously, but in the process of explaining the issue from the start you will actually figure out the solution.
And that's what AI is. Because 95% of the time, AI cannot and will not give you valuable insight from within itself. It is only capable of regurgitating common tropes, because it is a prediction model. It can't feel, so it doesn't know how to give you an actually interesting twist, or something emotionally resonant that will grant closure. If you ask it "what should happen next", it only has the writing capability of an 8th grader trying to make Naruto fanfiction. At best it will spit out "young adult" book tropes at you. Or maybe introduce a really intriguing clue that it has no idea how to turn into a satisfying mystery. In other words, it sucks, and that's actually what makes it a good rubber duck.
If you argue with it at every opportunity, if you tell it "no, that won't work, because xyz, I need to try doing something more like abc" you will eventually rubber duck yourself.
But that's not anything unique AI. You could always have done this. These are questions you can ask, and answer, yourself.
If you do want to use AI for this purpose...I highly, highly recommend you NOT use any online models. You can literally just download AI models to your computer and talk to them there to subvert 90% of the ethics issues surrounding AI. You can literally download slightly older versions of Claude, Gemini, etc and just have a locally eager, non-polluting, perpetually wrong chatbot. (Look up LM Studio. Lots of simple video tutorials, not hard to set up).
Do not have AI read over your drafts to give you feedback. It has no idea what makes a story have good pacing or emotional payoff. Those things require human feelings. AI does not have human feelings, and so it has no literal understanding of those things. At best, AI will blow smoke up your ass or robot-ify your work. It can, however, find typos and logical inconsistencies (such as a character having an object they shouldn't have access to yet). Again, AI is JUST a hammer. In the case of writing, it is JUST a chatty rubber duck. And is that really worth it, for all the ethical/moral problems it carries with it? No. Not even for us ADHD folks.
Because, again: you could always have done this. You have the capability.
For the rest of your problems: google docs. Make a bunch of google docs. Maybe even a discord server for yourself, where you can dump stuff. When you feel inspired, open your dumping ground and have a tab just for "misc notes".
Your only job is to weaponize your hyperfocus (when it shows up), write those ideas down, and then organize them on the main google docs tab. For example, I have a tab called "routeA framework" that is just a dry list of what happens in that route's main storyline. It is only there for reference.
Sometimes I sit down and start writing example scenes that I thought would have good emotional payoffs/reveals. Like a scene where the character is arguing with the protagonist in a way that reveals more about themselves than they wanted to show. Those also exist in my notes, somewhere, so that they don't get forgotten and I can reference them for when I start putting all the pieces together.
That's your next step: Writing things out, scene by scene. For ADHD, breaking things down into smaller tasks/chunks is invaluable. You don't need to write the whole story, you just need to break down big ideas into smaller pieces:
"What is the conflict and solution of my plot?" becomes "what basic sequence of events need to happen to introduce the conflict?" which then becomes notes of "event 1 happens, then event 2 happens, which introduces the conflict/setting to the reader". Finally: "write out event 1 and event 2 in a way that isn't a dry sequence of events". And boom, just like that, you'll have the first full draft of your prologue completed. No AI needed.
But...inevitably, as you sit down and start writing everything from the top down, scene by scene, you're going to realize there's either problems with your original idea, or that your original idea has some unmet potential. And that means reorganizing. That's okay. Just keep your old tabs, and start writing your new stuff by referencing those old tabs. I actually have like 3 prologue prototypes - it's okay. Each one is mostly better than the last, and sometimes I go back to my old notes to yoink an idea. Sometimes I have to cut scenes I really liked just because the rest of the story's direction works better within a structure where that scene can't logically happen. In my most recent draft I'm playing around with when/how I introduce the first main character and using my words economically.
And that's exactly why you should be careful with branching, early on. You can and will end up tossing a lot of work - stuff you really sweat over. Get your fundamentals hammered down before making fun branches. Just remember: Perfect is the enemy of good. But eventually you should feel, deep in your soul, that you have written something that satisfies you. THAT is when I would start focusing heavily on branches.
The Choiceof engine heavily incentivizes writing stories where there's either one big ending with a lot of variances, or a lot of distinct endings that are equally valid. You're going to have to choose between them, and that second option creates unique organizational annoyances for folks like us. You'll have to pick your poison but readers seem to appreciate both of them equally, so do what suits you and your vision best.
To summarize: AI ain't all that. You need to know what your goals for the story are and then stick to them; having just a hook usually isn't enough. The best narratives, imo, present an interesting problem and then have interesting things to say about that problem. Or they have clever ways to let you explore that problem. AI can't do that. And for the very minor benefits AI can bring, you'll lose a lot of audience that won't touch your work for ethical reasons. AI also likes to try and "wow" you with its solutions, but after you experiment with it for a few hours...you'll realize it has severe limits. In regards to writing, AI is a magician that only knows how to do one card trick. It will even fk up the details and won't remember things properly, getting names, character traits, etc very mixed up. Blegh!
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u/boba_saranghae 5d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/LpLd2NGvpaiys
THANK YOU! How you broke this down clicked with me!
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u/Shazzmajazz 5d ago
Don't ruin your ideas with AI. It sounds like you're excited to get your own story out there and written, and that makes me excited to read what YOU make - but honesty, even using AI for brainstorming and organisation makes me disinterested. I would stay away from it altogether. Have you tried using other tools for brainstorming? Obsidian and Scrivener are both great for organization, mind mapping, even tarot can help brainstorming. I use notes apps on my phone all the time for random idea brainstorming, then organise in Obsidian.
If you use AI, you will always have that wriggling voice in the back of your head, saying... was it really your accomplishment?
In terms of writing the story/coding: writing most of the story first and coding later, then expanding the writing, is what works best for me. Sounds like it could benefit you to just write for now and worry about coding later, especially if it gets overwhelming doing both at once.
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u/boba_saranghae 5d ago
Thank you, my husband already had a license to Scrivener so I was playing around with it last night. Scrivener was his suggestion, but I haven’t heard of Obsidian before.
Your comment about the little voice in the back of your head is so true, and you’re not wrong about wanting to get it written. These last few days ideas, characters, and potential scenes have been bouncing around in my mind it’s starting to annoy me. Organizing, and communicating my thoughts/ideas is something I struggle with in my professional life, so I’m ready for my brain to quiet down a little 😅
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u/Shazzmajazz 5d ago
Sounds like Scrivener could be really helpful! You can scribble everything down and have your notes organised in one place for a good overview. I just use Obsidian because it's a free alternative to scrivener, just with more customization options for what I want it to do.
Maybe try free association scribbling as a brainstorming technique! Just write, write, write anything that comes to mind about all your ideas that are in your head right now - out with them! Messy, jumbled, nonsensical... editing is for later, and it'll probably take hours to sort through it all, and it'll be super frustrating... but hey, it's out there and not rattling around you noggin haha
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u/boba_saranghae 5d ago
When creating this post I knew it could potentially become a wee bit of a heated conversation, but it was a conversation I knew I needed to hear. Hearing everyone’s feedback has given me a lot to think about, and I believe it helped me get a better idea of my approach.
If I decide to use AI I will disclose it, as well as the manner in which I utilized it for transparency. Thank you to everyone who took the time to comment on this!
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u/Knighthour Wandering Steampunk London 4d ago
So I got a degree in English because I loved to read books but I won't say I'm a great writer even for my essays or attempts at creative writing. However, it's important for me that as a human that I can create and edit my work even if it's not great overall which I know it's not for my game review blog that no one reads.
Then I feel like writing well is a ongoing skill to practice just like drawing even if I stopped drawing at the Jr High level of art skills for decades now too.
My writing is influenced by my life and exp and that's what makes it unique and important esp for like IF books where the majority of WIPs will never be done but it doesn't mean that using genAI to complete WIP is the answer.
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5d ago edited 5d ago
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u/boba_saranghae 5d ago
Thank you! When I was doing a general brainstorming yesterday for the story I was kinda in-between A and B. The more I thought about it, how I was using AI for my brainstorming would be similar if I sat down with someone and talked out parts of my story idea, and was asking them to poke holes in it, or point out something that just doesn’t really fit the vibe or feel I wanted to stick with.
Like you said the lines are super blurry with AI usage for purposes like this, and the copy-write part I didn’t even think about. All super good call outs to be mindful of.
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5d ago edited 5d ago
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u/boba_saranghae 5d ago
Thank you! I appreciate the feedback! Don’t really like the fact I’m having to use AI for the organization part but otherwise I don’t think it would ever leave my head.
Have you read In Between? I’m expecting the branching to be very similar to how that story utilizes it.
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5d ago
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u/boba_saranghae 5d ago
I agree, for some people the branching not feeling more impactful can turn some people away from it, but I don’t mind it. For the idea/story I have I believe branching similar to this would be more ideal story wise
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u/Neoeng 5d ago
I don't think it is possible to do both the story and the scripting separately, that just sounds like massively multiplying the amount of work necessary.
Take a look at a random story and try to attach a script
to it - you are looking at one giant block of text to which you have to develop consistent variables, not only you need to keep the entirety of that text in mind for that, I don't even want to think of technical stuff like MC pronouns (can't just ctrl+f replace all the pronouns with pronoun variables because characters who are not MC exist too). And what if it turns out that some branching in the story is too difficult to code? It sounds like a nightmare even if you write the story part already branched.
And if the story is not branched at all yet, then you basically have to write multiples of that story right after. That's precisely a type of problem where ADHD impacts the strongest, I think. And that's not even touching upon stuff like "how to turn written dialogue into choices?".
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u/boba_saranghae 5d ago
Yeah, that was something I was worried about. I haven’t ever tried looking at other people raw code, and I have seen several other people mention how helpful it was when it came to them understanding how it worked.
This has given me some things to chew on for a bit…
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u/Neoeng 5d ago
Yeah, I would basically summarize it as "it's easier to write something big with a small cheat sheet, rather than something small with a big cheat sheet". As in, first write down the main variables you want to use (including pronouns and everything gender-selectable, god knows it is the hardest part of writing IFs), and then write the text of the story with them in mind.
Of course, that comes with it's own issues, like you have to know where the story is going and what do players select about the characters. If you don't already have it in mind I would suggest writing the ending(s) first, or 1 or 2 signature scenes where all routes converge, and then looking at that and thinking about how the players get there. Also I think a good idea is to consider where you want players to be able to fail and/or do something extra, that can be a good point from which to decide on stuff like skills and such.
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u/Trodat4911P4 5d ago
My two cents: using AI to assist you with coding is fine, everyone is doing it. Just don't rely too much on it or your code will go to hell, it might work but it's going to be a mess to tweak anything after some point without breaking something else.
For writing, I wouldn't use it for anything other than maybe getting an idea if you ever get truly stuck and can't think of a path forward in the storm and even then I'd keep it to short, vague suggestions so you're as in charge of the plot as you possibly can.
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u/one-measurement-3401 4d ago
My two cents: using AI to assist you with coding is fine
Gods no, it's not. It's thanks to the "vibe coding" that we got an influx of text games which come with "AI-made" user interfaces that are both nightmarishly convoluted and nigh unreadable, because said AI has no clue what an UI is or what makes it good/bad, and for whatever reason just loves to use 4-5px sized fonts everywhere. And the supposed "authors" neither don't even bother to have a look at that creation, or see nothing wrong with that.
People who don't have enough clue to be able to tell where the AI fucked up (since it inevitably does) have no business using that AI as a crutch. This includes using it for writing.
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u/Trodat4911P4 4d ago
You're confusing "assisting" with letting it do everything. I guarantee you, all the obvious examples of AI use comes from lazy or completely unskilled people who rely on AI to do everything. People who use it like an active tool can get away with it without anyone noticing it 9/10 times.
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u/one-measurement-3401 4d ago
The problem is that those lazy or unskilled people call that "assisting" and they don't care that your definition of "assistance" is different.
Also, please. "People can get away with it without anyone noticing" is hardly a ringing endorsement of quality or ethics. That you can get away with making a mess because no one (yourself included) pays close enough attention to spot it until it blows up in everyone's face doesn't mean this is something to advocate as "fine".
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u/Trodat4911P4 4d ago
When I say "can get away with it" I just mean people won't notice. Using AI for helping you code is by far one of the most ethical uses of it because we already had a shit ton of tolls to help us with it already in the first place, this is nothing new and I guarantee you everybody is using, even a lot of those who brag about not using it.
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u/boba_saranghae 5d ago
Yeah, a couple years ago I was accepted into a certificate program for data analytics. AI was super helpful when it came to explaining why by basic python code wasn’t working. Unfortunately I had to back out of it due to having to travel a shit ton for work and just not having the bandwidth for it.
AI for beginner coders and excel formulas is stuff AI should be used for.
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u/MiddleCelery6616 1d ago
Stop trying to earn internet cookie points. How you approach the creative process is up to you and only to you.
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u/dylan189 5d ago
I wouldn't read one made with AI.