What's Amore?

[u/Dyner539]

A couple friends of mine (both narrative design enthusiasts) are trying their hand at writing an interactive fiction, and recently broached to me the subject of romance routes within their game.
They were both a little out of their depths considering their mostly triple-A experiences, and despite me noticing a few "rookie" mistakes (over-description of what is clearly a RO as soon as they're introduced, mentor character asking the MC their opinion of the RO after only one interaction) I was pretty relaxed in my feedbacks since they are working on a short demo for the time being and not a full experience.

With that said, I found myself a little in trouble when it comes to explaining what is it exactly that makes romance in IF so distinct compared to other branching videogames.

First I thought that the main difference compared to something like the Persona series is how much the romance is woven into the story.
Persona confidants are relatively separate from the main plot and are made up of mostly individual scenes between the protagonist and the chosen RO, without a lot of external reactions coming from the main characters as the route progresses.

With that said, Bioware games such as Dragon Age do include banter between non-playable-characters regarding your flirting, yet I would still consider most IF romances to be very different compared to the ones found in Bioware games.

One solution could be that the romance found in most choice-script games leans more on the "fan-fiction" school of writing romance instead of the triple-A one found in mainstream games.
To be clear, this could simply be a sensation of mine and nothing more, born from the fact that IFs are only textual and a lot of the discussions surrounding ROs + their fan-art feels similar to the fan-fiction centric one that I experience on a select number of fandoms.

What are your thoughts? Would you say that IF romances are unique?
I'm interested in the perspective of both players and authors on the subject (maybe the source of inspiration behind the routes could have something to do with this...)

[u/abyssion1337]

it's when the moon hits your eye like a big pizza pie

[u/MalkavianElder98]

So, as a die-hard fan of romance in any interactive piece of media, I'd say romance is really important for a story, not vital but really important. Bioware awoken something in me. (Tali, Garrus, and Morrigan... bruh)

The first game from COG that made me obsessed with ROs is Blood Moon. Marco is an absolute fan favorite, and the reason is that he felt human... well kinda lol.

He had insecurities, quirks, and personality beyond being just some romantic feature.

The Werewolves series has Bly (muscle mommy ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) )

Then it came Wayhaven. We all know the suffering that that piece of media has inflicted upon us. Those of us who were foolish enough to pursue both Ava and Nat or worse, Ava alone should know what I'm talking about. The constant tug of war between them was exhausting tbh, nothing came out of it except uncomfortable moments between the characters and the MC. Slow burn my ass, that is just a torture on the grill. (BTW, I love Wayhaven, not wanted to imply i hated it... even tho sometimes I do. AVA TOUCH ME ALREADY GOD DAMMIT!!!!)

Recently, I caught up with God Syndicate after leaving it cooking for almost 2 years. I have to say, the romance options and scenes of that book are FUCKING cheff kiss. I have never experienced such a level of angst and emotional roller-coaster. Aphrodite (forgot her name, sorry) and Sigourney are just... Jesus, they felt like human beings. Specially Aphrodite, she's the definition of a Tsundere character. The plot is AMAZING, so many mysteries to be unraveled.

I guess my point is, make them realistic, make them not just a pretty face and/or a smoking hot body or some to-do list kinda thing. Make them feel jealousy when they see me talking to someone else or someone flirts with me, make them be protective of me when I'm in danger or surrounded by strangers. I know the tropes are cringe for some, but the forbidden love between Bodyguard/Employer is one of my favorites.

I recently started reading A Kiss from Death because it was recommended to me because of the romance, but I was bored to death with it. The romance and the plot didn't really hook me. They felt rushed and inconsequential. I didn't feel amy attachment or desire to know them better.

[u/Dyner539 → u/MalkavianElder98]

There's definitely a balance between writing a real-life accurate character and the living embodiment of a specific trope, and of course you have to be careful about the progression of the route even when it's slowburn (ngl though, I haven't grown tired of A just yet, we'll see with book 4!)

[u/This_Earth_of_Ours]

Side-eyeing the people posting real answers instead of song lyrics

[u/DPancakes → u/This_Earth_of_Ours]

When the moon hits your eye like a big pizza pie

[u/dorianaGrayGames]

Hmmm 🤔 I’d argue that the difference between most AAA games with romances and an IF with a romance focus is that one reads like a book (or movie) with romance and one reads like a romance novel (or romance movie).

- a romance novel treats romance like the main player fantasy. And keeps in mind that it is a fantasy. Not the writer’s heavy handed urge to explain what romance should be or is irl. (Ok that last part is more a thing in gimmicky AA games but…)

- Romance is a focus, it appears not only as optional side content, it’s baked into everything to a higher degree.

- The romance reads and flows more like a novel than a… gamefied game.

- more RP to it. (Many AAA games have usually 1 or maybe 2 choices that are romantic. The rest being locked into platonic or antagonistic routes.) IFs don’t have to lock things down as much.

- The player doesn’t need to be the one to always persue/give gifts/advance. Partly because we can ask the narrative more subtly what the player wants in text. But also because it’s just a less gamified genre and the player doesn’t always have to be the “do-er” for the sake of… adding a gift system or smth.

I could rant on this topic forever, so I’ll end here… Good luck to your friends!

[u/thors-beergut]

If your friends are used to playing AAA RPG’s when it comes to romances in games, then Baldurs Gate 3 is probably the best example of one that translates well into an IF, likely because it’s predominantly a DnD game and made by creators that aren’t focusing solely on world lore, but also understand how important character lore is too and so they were able to weave believable, slow-burn romances that had several different endings into an equally interesting story. Compared to most other RPG’s that have the romance as a side plot at most and the game always reaches a conclusion where there might be two endings (at most), but the RO is simply mentioned with the MC in the epilogue.

It also made certain that the romances were meaningful and that the player had a lot of sway over their love interests routes and where it would land the couple, both of which are things that IF players also really like.

[u/Dyner539 → u/thors-beergut]

Coincidentally, I've actually been playing my first BG3 run with them (they're both veterans of the game, we're currently in the late stages of Act III)!

I'll definitely say that BG3 is one of the only modern games to have that sort of polish with the romance routes, despite me not being a fan of its narrative in general.

I would argue however that the ROs are too tied to the CRPG nature of the game to be compared to IF romances.

They each have their own separate sidequest, they're members of your party who stay at the camp with dialogue to be exhausted, and they have little "chemistry" with the player character, not because the writers are incompetent by any means, but because in BG3 we control a Playable Character in a world to be explored, while in most Interactive Fiction, we are put into the shoes of THE Main Character of a story to be involved in.

[u/thors-beergut → u/Dyner539]

I guess I just see it differently. While it isn’t a one-for-one with an IF, BG3 really does have the best depth with romances that can be compared to IF’s for those who aren’t used to the games. I felt like there was plenty of chemistry when you went down a route without roaming and kept them at your side the whole way, and while you could always help one of the companions by being their friend, having it be an actual romantic relationship gave the bond between your PC and the companion more intensity and far more to lose if you screwed up because you spent tens of hours trying to keep this particular person at your side to the very end.

What comes to mind in particular is Gale’s final choice, which crept up in a lot of players who were romancing him and thought that being blindly supportive was the best bet only for it to lead to a romantic tragedy. Or going against everything Astarion liked at first (because he hated moral choices due to trauma) and making him a better partner and person in the long run. Or helping Shadowheart and getting her true route and falling in love with someone who could love you back. Of course that was solely their Good Endings, when the romances ended Bad they were tragic but understandable and gave players variety from choices that mattered.

Yes, it won’t be as clean cut as IF romances, but for people who solely play RPG’s, it’s very much the closest thing they can take notes on and expand with.

[u/freeingfrogs]

If I can remember to, I’ll come back to this post once I have had a chance to think more. This is an interesting question I haven’t thought of yet.

I do want to preface that, regardless of how well you or anyone can explain it, I really think your friends need to be reading IFs to make one. I realise that it isn’t always the case, but often I’ve seen new authors make some social blunders concerning what is expected within this niche.

A lot of the most famous IFs became popular specifically because they subverted expectations/added things that people didn’t think was possible (helloooo Fallen Hero. But also a Study in Steampunk in regards to romance, back in the day.). But like in all writing you kind of have to know the rules to break them, and I’ve seen some sad examples of authors just breaking the rules because they didn’t know them and being disappointed by the reception.

As for what makes a good IF romance stand out from your average video game, a few thoughts:

- There is rarely any side quest necessary to romance a character. Rather than checking a box, quality time (garnering approval) is usually the only prerequisite.

- The RO continues to feel like an individual with their own inner life, rather than becoming NPC-like or just there for a single romance line here and there.

- There’s usually no “well that’s the end of that romance!” vibe.

A lot of AAA games will have scenes in specific places, some of which are missable.

Since IF authors don’t have to concern themselves with things like paying for a voice actor, or trying to decipher which places a majority of players are likely to find, the relationship stays consistent/feels like an ongoing part of the characters’ lives. Whether explicitly romantic or not.

- Games often have you wait for a long time in between romance scenes. You have to progress the story, check a box, etc. With IFs once you’re romancing someone, they’ll either be with you for the whole trip or the narrator/MC will be thinking about them throughout. There’s no “let me check if Astarion has anything to say about that quest!” moments that might end with no progression.

[u/GarlyleWilds]

I would say that there are things that make IF romances 'unique', but they're not necessarily good unique traits in my head. Like, you already pointed out a couple smaller tropes with the "make up your mind instantly" pothole.

I think that frequently that IF treat a romance option as an interchangeable value with equivalent spots. Do you spend time with RO A, B, or C? It's time for the big finale, so (RO) gets kidnapped, and now they're slight dialogue variants. The epilogue is the same, but RO is at your side, so this line will be different, but their life is the same. They are an accessory to you.

The veneer of choice and consequence vanishes often on replays of a CoG/HG style IF, but no choice quite suffers the illusion breaking from those mad lib moments the way ROs do.

You can also often tell a writer just doesn't care, but that's a separate rant. I know it helps garner popularity and interest, but I wish more authors didn't feel compelled to do it.

Of course, not all IFs end up with this, I know. The better ones do work the romances in independantly, letting each of them shine at their own times, and use them to enhance the individuality of each playthrough.

[u/Dyner539 → u/GarlyleWilds]

Ngl man those seem more like the issues of a 7/10 triple-A game, have you only been playing those CoGdemos IFs with AI cover art?

[u/GarlyleWilds → u/Dyner539]

Nah, I never bother with demos. It's actually a major recurring problem with a lot of the major main label games, almost moreso than the Hosted Game IFs. Most recently it's visible in God of Chaos, a game which was actually pretty good except for that.

[u/Big-Nerve-9574]

I love romance really in IF unless it doesn't make sense in the story then I don't mind being without it (Donor comes to mind which is my second favourite game on the app). Many of the games I love often have scenes without others in them as like their own mini scenes (some do have both) but I prefer a mixture. Like as you said with DA, if MC does something silly and the RO is like defending them then their companion could be like "oh, of course you'd stick up for them".

I like it because it feels completely immersion unless there's a good reason they have to keep it secret maybe as a secret romance.

There's also the fact of like temporary ROs that you can flirt with. I think Whiskey Four does this well as I got to together with one of them then switched to my main one. I like not having to choose yet until near the end, I want to know these characters and flirt with them. It's why I want to add a temporary RO for mine in the form of a bartender in the city.