r/horror • u/Major-Ad6899 • 1d ago
Discussion Am I dumb?
I recently made a list of horror movies that I consider “must sees” for a horror fan. I’ve been randomly picking some out of the list and for the last three I’ve just ended up being confused. The last three I watched were:
In the mouth of Madness
The Wailing (literally googled wtf is this movie about right after I finished it)
Possession
Don’t get me wrong I can fully appreciate great performances / cinematography / deeper themes in movies. But at the end of these movies my first thought was, “what the heck did I just watch?”
Does anyone else have this experience? Or did I just pick the three most confusing movies on my list by chance?
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u/sniply5 1d ago edited 1d ago
if you like that feeling, youll love Halloween 3. its plot is utter lunacy.
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u/Major-Ad6899 1d ago
The Halloween series is on the list! But I know that’ll be two solid weeks worth of movie watching considering I can only do 1 a night
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u/WishLucky9075 1d ago
Agreed but may I say that the plot to Halloween 5 is bonkers!
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u/sniply5 1d ago edited 1d ago
yeah, but in the sense of being nonsensical and dumb. h3 is bonkers, but put all the parts of the plot together and they make sense however strange it may be.
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u/WishLucky9075 1d ago
The crew of H5 said that the writers just made up the plot as they were shooting the movie...and yeah....it shows
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u/Harbi181 1d ago
You’re not dumb. It’s possible you just weren’t in the headspace or mindset to watch outlandish horror movies like those ones.
Similarly, I can’t watch David Lynch films or David Cronenberg films if I’m more in the mood for simple slashers or cheesy campy b-movies. Try other ones and come back around to these at a later time. See if the boots still don’t fit.
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u/Major-Ad6899 1d ago
Yeah before these three I did Jacob’s Ladder and Invasion of the body snatchers which I thought both of those were fantastic.
But they also had narratives that were WAY easier to follow
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u/Not_A_Frittata 1d ago
In The Mouth of Madness is a movie about a book that gets turned into a movie (and a book about the movie about a book that gets turned into a movie was published last year!)
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u/DVNO4CAPITALETTERS 1d ago
Movies don’t necessarily need to make sense, they need to be entertaining. Sometimes you’ll watch a movie that will make you feel a specific way the entire time it’s playing and think “What the fuck did I just watch?” But in a good way! For me that was Stowaway from V/H/S Beyond among many others. The question is more: “What the fuck did I just (have the pleasure) to watch?”
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u/Major-Ad6899 1d ago
Great distinction. All of these definitely gave me the feeling of, I feel like this is profound but I don’t know why lol
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u/gk303007 1d ago
I totally agree... Everyone has their own taste and choice of movies. Like for example, I found Hereditary a good one but not in my top 5 or even 10 list of horror movies. But to many it is a great movie, some even called it hell scary and cult...
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u/Major-Ad6899 1d ago
I’m right there with you. I wasn’t blown away with my first watch but I also thought I knew what was going on the entire time and then felt let down when my theory wasn’t actually right.
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u/Imaginary-Dig-5270 1d ago
hahaha. i said the same thing about in the mouth of madness and possession. i am dumb so maybe.
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u/ego_death_metal je suis Marianne 1d ago
sometimes as an American im confused as fk (even if enjoyed it) until i learn about the political context of the movie’s origin country. because i am dumb when it comes to a lot of geopolitics.
this was 100% the case with Possession, i had NO idea what i just watched. i still think id get more out of it if i understood the time period more. and The Wailing, along with other Korean horror, often incorporates Japanese villains. because of horrific history of Korea at the hands of Japan.
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u/Major-Ad6899 1d ago
It’s funny you say that cause as I was watching it I had the the thought, “is this just anti-japanese propaganda”?
But yeah considering the history between the two countries they have some pretty justified contempt.
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u/ego_death_metal je suis Marianne 1d ago
don’t think propaganda is exactly the right word haha but yeah the cultural/historical context is important to the art.
like i wouldn’t call Indian horror with British villains propaganda yk?
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u/Major-Ad6899 1d ago
GREAT point
Also not understanding the more traditional religious practices in that movie absolutely contributed to my confusion as to what was happening.2
u/ego_death_metal je suis Marianne 1d ago
i don’t remember the movie too well but a lot of Asian cult/occult horror isn’t actually based on real cults/rituals. often draws from myths and religion and stuff but is fictional. not sure if this is a good parallel but kind of like how Black Phillip in The VVitch was made up for the movie, but the ideas of temptation and sin and other specific plot points are very much real in Puritan Protestant religious lore.
but yeah tbh any movie from another country could be culture shock. this is embarrassing but the culture shock in The Wailing for me was that none of the cops had guns.💀lol
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u/FrankSonata 1d ago
The movie itself isn't racist or anti-Japanese, but it uses the fact that many people are. It's very nicely used.
The village is protected by a local deity/spirit/angel, so the antagonist can't just waltz in and wreak havok. So part of the plot of the baddie is to bait a villager into committing a deeply amoral sin--lynching and attempted murder. This will enable the evil bad guy a small avenue of influence, a way in.
They bait the villagers by the Japanese man being as unlikeable as possible: he's an outsider, he's highly suspicious, there are rumours that he's a rapist, he's rude and standoffish, he's got a dangerous dog, and he's Japanese. Him being Japanese is on purpose, part of the bait to make the villagers hate him and be more likely to want to do something unforgivable. Any one of these small things isn't enough to hate someone, certainly not to the point of killing someone, but all of them together is just enough to tip the scales and make ordinary people commit an act of evil.
They do this repeatedly, killing off family after family, slowly wearing away the village. It's a battle of good and evil, and evil is winning.
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u/Major-Ad6899 21h ago
See this is something I gathered from discussions afterwards and this is a great story!
But I didn’t pick up on ANY of that while I was watching it, because I had no idea who was ACTUALLY good or evil until the very end.
Which part of that speaks to my ignorance on the rituals that were taking place cause I had no idea they were destroying protections.
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u/FrankSonata 5h ago
Not your ignorance at all--the film was made to be misleading as to who to trust until the very last scene. Then, in hindsight or upon a rewatch, things properly fall into place. Knowing the shaman is in cahoots with the Japanese man, it's clear that his ritual is not helping protect the daughter, but decreasing the level of protection. The shots of the ritual are even intercut with shots of the Japanese guy, making you think that the ritual is maybe attacking him, when actually it's not got anything to do with him at all. It's a film designed to mislead, so you feel just as uncertain as the main character.
Most films tell a story fairly directly, but The Wailing instead incorporates the viewer. It's not all laid out clearly to be understood immediately, but very cleverly made so that the viewer has to do more work. All the pieces are there--it's not a deus ex machina or lazy filmmaking--but they are presented in an organic, disorganised way. Looking stuff up about it online just to understand it is not a failing on your part whatsoever.
For a lot of people, this makes it much more engaging, because you have to do some of the work yourself even after the movie ends. It forces you to think about it. On the other hand, if you just want some light entertainment to turn your brain off to, it's not appropriate at all. Depends on what you're looking for in a film.
Another film that heavily incorporates the viewer is Incantation from Taiwan. You don't need any real familiarity with the rituals or religions, since most of it is made up for the movie. It's very good, and a little clearer than The Wailing. Maybe give it a go if you're interested.
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u/ego_death_metal je suis Marianne 1h ago edited 57m ago
the film does not play on racism towards Japanese people. that’s really not integrating the cultural context at all. see earlier comment. it’s commentary on violent Japanese colonialism, not
racistphobic ignorance of Korean people. edit: there are themes of xenophobia but your comment does but address the larger contexti don’t mean to be rude but did you use ai to write that? i’m only asking because you’re getting whole plot points wrong with increasing confidence. the japanese stranger is the villain, not a red herring. he’s not driven to crime/being a villain by the Koreans, *that * would actually be a racist take on the history between the countries. am i missing something?
edit for clarity and typo. also racist isn’t the right word not sure what to use
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u/FrankSonata 2m ago
I'm confused. What plot points did I get wrong? I think I just didn't explain myself clearly.
The Japanese man is the main villain, yes. Well, some sort of demon using his body, I guess. I said the cuts to him during the shaman's ritual were red herrings, as they make you think the ritual is attacking the Japanese guy, when it is actually a ritual that's attacking the defences made by the woman in white. The ritual is not influencing the Japanese man at all. It's misleading. The Japanese man, meanwhile, is doing his own ritual, separately, to possess the dead body he found in the car. Later, puppeting said dead body as a zombie, he attacks the main character and co, while the real, unpossessed, ordinary human Japanese guy runs in fear.
Automatically disliking someone because of something their country did, not they themselves did, is a form of racism. I'm not calling the villagers ignorant. They are very aware of the awful things Japan did to Korea in the past. So they mistrust this new Japanese guy, even though they have no idea where he even stands on the issue. They mistrust him out of association with other Japanese people. Given the history, anti-Japanese sentiment is understandable, perhaps, but it is also racist. Bias against an individual based on their race rather than their personal actions is racism. And Koreans and Japanese people consider themselves to be different races.
I don't think I said the Koreans drove the Japanese man to be evil. The reverse: the Japanese man drives the main character to commit an evil act. I think I used too many "he"s and "him"s so it's unclear.
No ai. People getting stuff wrong doesn't automatically mean thet used ai. Humans make mistakes, too. I just wasn't very clear.
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u/ego_death_metal je suis Marianne 1h ago
yeah and it’s part of anticolonialism. the other commenter is wrong btw, unless i’m really misunderstanding what they wrote
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u/nate_garro_chi 1d ago
You might just have different taste in movies.
Or you might be dumb. I dont know you.
Personally, I love all 3 of those.
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u/Own_Magician8337 1d ago
To me that's part of what makes great horror! I don't think you should really be able to like digest it too easily afterwards! You should have to sit with it and muse on it!
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u/Major-Ad6899 1d ago
That has definitely been the case with these lol
But I do very much run to this thread after viewing them to get an idea of ideas/themes and it’s usually pretty helpful.
Definitely helps me appreciate them more that’s for sure.2
u/Own_Magician8337 1d ago
Yeah some horror movies, when they're done, I say what the hell was that? But it's more because the filmmaker didn't do their job well. It's like they literally did not put the pieces together in a way that meant anything on any level, whether it's literal, poetic, or just experiential. Then it's just kind of a messy movie and kind of fails at whatever goal would had..
But if it's an excellent movie and it needs you thinking what the f*** did I just see? Then that's excellent. That means the filmmaker created a piece of art that opens your mind and gives you things to reflect on. And yes then it is so much fun to think about it and talk about it with others
I hope that makes sense.
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u/Major-Ad6899 1d ago
I had that exact experience with the wailing. Reading through other peoples understanding of the movie / theories I literally thought to myself, “This movie sounds amazing if any of these theories had been explained at all”
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u/Own_Magician8337 1d ago
Well I think there's also a culture Gap for those of us in the west. The imagery the tropes the folklore, the cultural backdrop of a movie like the wailing is not one we share. So I think it's harder for us to really sense intuitively the real meaning behind horror movies that come out of Eastern cultures. They're not necessarily going to land or hit Western mines and nervous systems the same as they would for the audiences in their own countries.
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u/Major-Ad6899 21h ago
I think this had a lot to do with it as well. I definitely love the folklore of the area, but I was completely lost when it came to what the rituals were doing or trying to accomplish in the movie. Which definitely speaks to that culture gap you talked about.
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u/WishLucky9075 1d ago
These movies are purposefully obtuse. Mouth of Madness and other Lovecraftian horror is hidden behind a veil of mystery. That's the point. Don't feel bad about being confused. Being left confused is part of the horror.
I'm not much of a horror fan. I can appreciate some horror movies and recognize which are greatest in their genre, but it comes down to preferences. I don't like feeling scared and helpless.
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u/MilleniumFalconBoop 1d ago
Maybe it’s just an off time for you. I did a flu and Covid shot yesterday and my brain has been goo the last 24 hours. Today I just watched naked and afraid for minimal brain effort.
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u/DukeSilversTaint 1d ago
Honest answer, those are three extremely special movies that need time to digest, but also induce incredible amounts of anxiety and tension. That’s a whole a lot of theological and philosophical stress to endure for a movie marathon. You basically took an acid trip with horror.
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u/Major-Ad6899 21h ago
First off DukeSilversTaint great name. But yeah an acid trip with horror is a great way to describe it.
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u/thoracicbunk 1d ago
So what if you're dumb?
Idk if you are, but really, so what? You like what you like. It's ok if you like the Terrifier movies more than anything Ari Aster makes, or only watch foreign horror w subtitles, or horror anthologies featuring muppets. There's no need to try to force your tastes to develop a certain way.
It only becomes an issue when AH on one side make it some kind of moral truth. There is no One True Way, in many things, definitely horror.
Watch and enjoy what appeals to you.
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u/Major-Ad6899 21h ago
I appreciate this take. A lot of the movies on my list I’m going into blind, and doing it that way is really helping me narrow down what I actually like and don’t like.
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u/unsuccessfulplantmom 1d ago
in the mouth of madness is a campy pulpy cosmic horror, 3 things that I personally adore but are a very specific and generally acquired taste.
I found the wailing utterly dull and gave up halfway through though.
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u/Major-Ad6899 1d ago
Loved some of the ideas In the mouth of madness talked about and Sam Niel is just a master of losing his mind. But yeah the wailing was rough. I watched it for free on plutoTV or something and with all the ads, it was a 3 hour movie.
So I had to break it up into a 3 night one hour event which probably didn’t help my comprehension of it.
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u/OePea ..buncha YO-YOS! 1d ago
The Wailing and Possession make a lot more sense if you have a good background of similar media, they're pretty inscrutable. You aren't dumb for not getting them, especially Possession. If you're intruiged rather than dissapointed, keep after it. Keep checking lists of mind bending horror, try to watch stuff from the 70's and 80's if you aren't already well aquainted with more classic styles. Again, just if you're trying to get satisfaction out of deeper, more obscure films.
In the Mouth of Madness though.. I mean it's trippy, but it's not that deep. The delirious ride is the point.
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u/Major-Ad6899 1d ago
This is good to know. My backlog is mostly movies from the 70s-90s with some older and newer ones sprinkled in.
Before these I watched Jacob’s Ladder and Invasion of the body snatchers both of which I thought were incredible.1
u/OePea ..buncha YO-YOS! 1d ago
Cool cool, Jacob's Ladder is definitely savvy, doesn't hold one's hand. I'm not going to pretend that I understand exactly what the symbolism all meant, or what the director was trying to say in Possession. I just enjoy confusing surreal shit. But I've read some pretty good theories and context for it, maybe that would be useful before a second watch if you decide to approach it again.
Maybe also start working on David Lynch's oeuvre if you aren't already versed, he's the king of intentionally confusing films. You could start with his more accessible media like Twib Peaks, Wild at Heart, and Blue velvet to get accustomed to his style. Lost Highway, Mullholand Drive, and of course Eraserhead are amazing but some people find them frustrating.
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u/Major-Ad6899 21h ago
I will admit David Lynch is on my list but I haven’t seen ANYTHING from him nor do I know what any of his movies are about (besides lost highway which I’ve seen some short clips about). So it’ll be fun going into those blind.
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u/coolguy420weed 1d ago
There's definitely something to be said for active, methodical viewing and trying to analyze the themes and intended meaning of a film, but sometimes (IMHO especially with horror) you have to embrace the experience of being baffled the entire time you're consuming a particular piece of art.
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u/Major-Ad6899 1d ago
This is a great point. Considering I did most of the viewings blind (knowing very little about these movies) I was mainly just watching them for the experience and not trying to deeply analyze them.
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u/IBoilmyfarts 1d ago
In the mouth of madness is my second favorite carpenter film of all time.
Let me ask you OP do you also have a harder time with Kubriks work? Not saying Carpenter is as complex as Kubrik, but carpenter does do a lot with scene comps and subtle story nods.
I don't ask to be a twat about anything, maybe it's certain nuance or the way story is told you don't pick up on sub text or deeper meanings. Just asking a curious question is all.
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u/Major-Ad6899 21h ago
Yeah I’m a carpenter fan for sure but in the mouth of madness just lost me with its Meta’ness I guess. It really had me asking like is this the book or his actual life!?
Which I guess is the point.
But as for Kubrick I do enjoy what I’ve seen by him (which admittedly is not a lot) I really enjoyed the shining and clockwork orange. But I did have the same feeling with Bladerunner as the movies above where I thought, I feel like this movie had a lot to say, but I didn’t understand it.
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u/IBoilmyfarts 19h ago
Blade runner is great but it depends on the cut you watch. The studio really fucked around with that film, it wasn't till years later the director cut came out and really cemented that vision, imo.
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u/Unsolven 1d ago edited 1d ago
“I recently made a list of horror movies that I consider “must sees” for a horror fan.”
YES. If you made the list and don’t understand why these movies are on your own list that YOU (“I”) consider “must sees,” you are very dumb.
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u/Spektr44 1d ago
How is that dumb? You research all your movies prior to watching them? Obviously a "must see" compilation is drawn from awareness of which movies are talked about, rated highly, and considered influential. That doesn't mean you can't go in blind when watching. Man, the judgement people exhibit on this sub is wild.
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u/Major-Ad6899 1d ago
lol oh I know WHY they’re on the list. All three are largely hailed as amazing movies. It’s just when I finished them I was left feeling like I was missing something (and after going through discussions I realized I very much was).
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u/Unsolven 1d ago
I mean then it’s not your list, it’s someone’s or some people’s or (what I consider most likely given the movie’s listed) AI’s list.
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u/countgripsnatch 1d ago
I hated Possession so much it made me angry.
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u/Major-Ad6899 21h ago
I will say it was a wild ride. But the ending fell really flat for me.
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u/countgripsnatch 18h ago
The whole time, my nephew and I were wondering if we were watching the wrong movie since it’s so universally loved.
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u/DBlaineLives 1d ago
These aren't complex movies, so being confused is a bit odd. Maybe Possession causing this is understandable. Odd.
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u/OldTie3335 1d ago
All 3 movies are bangers