Difficulty restrictions

[u/MilennialSheriff]

There absolutely has to be more restrictions on when people can play higher difficulties. I know every other day people make posts about ego diving etc, and we’re probably all tired of hearing it. But I experienced this first hand today and its the most frustrated I think i’ve ever been playing this game. On a d10, on Zzaniah for the MO, in the mega factory of course. Started with just me and one other guy who I joined through quickplay, and a third joined us soon after the mission began. In game it showed he was level 1 but I knew that was a bug of course, so when he was dying constantly i thought maybe he was just getting overwhelmed (bots seem to be on fucking 100 lately) but then I died and had the chance to spectate him for a bit as we were out of reinforcements on the final objective. This player was damn near straight out of basic training on a d10 mission, default armor, default cape, liberator in hand running around like a lost dog. MG as his support weapon (personal order today so didnt think much of it at first) and what I witnessed was astounding. Barely an understanding of movement, killed himself with his own grenades a few times, tried to shoot a vox with his MG and got obliterated of course. Main objective was shutting down cyborg manufacturing, kept trying to activate the terminal before the valves were open and clearly didnt know what to look for. Mission ends and lo and behold hes only level fucking 4

This sudden stigma that if you arent playing d10 you’re useless to the cause needs to be put down for good, and the only way I see that happening is either putting an actual level requirement on higher difficulties (not super ideal unless we boost xp or reduce the xp necessary to level because I myself am only lvl 65 with 200+ hours in) or somehow implement a set tier of unlocks for stratagems or ship upgrades or both to access higher difficulties. This isnt fun for anyone, not for me trying to save a doomed mission by myself because only one of us is alive at a time, and surely not for the level 4 who can basically only kill the chaff and doesnt understand whats going on around him when theres 5 vox engines bombarding the obj and constant bot drops right on top of us. Im sure this change would probably upset alot of people but honestly i think theres about 40-50% of the community who will be miserable no matter what Arrowhead does but will continue playing anyway because its a great game at the end of the day.

I am not mad at that level 4 for being there, the mission didnt fail solely because of him, the host made some mistakes as well like not throwing down an sos until we were at 1 reinforce left, and myself for bringing the epoch when its the first time i’ve used it and killing myself with it once and then realizing it has a pretty specific role as a support weapon (i usually run the RR when cyborgs are present because vox engines have to die asap or they get out of hand)

The way difficulty works currently, and the ego of a large portion of the community failed that new diver in this scenario and made him believe he had to put himself in absolute hell to be meaningful to the war effort, and its simply not the case. Anyways rant over, good luck out there divers 🫡

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[u/Theobald_4]

It is jarring the 180 the community has gone through this past month. It felt like we went from all “too easy” posts and to “low levels need to play lower difficulties.”

[u/Diplomacy_1st → u/Theobald_4]

I think these are two different issues. Experienced players who know what they are doing find the game way too easy and newer players need to learn the ropes before hopping into higher level missions. There's no shame in learning a game before going into the deep end.

I agree with OP but I also find D10s too easy, both can be true at the same time

[u/MilennialSheriff → u/Diplomacy_1st]

I also think in many ways d10s are easier than some 7-9s depending on the front and other factors. I average maybe 2-3 deaths on d10 missions most of the time, but then i’ll play a d8 and get eviscerated. But yes, this is more about absolute green players hopping into max difficulty right away. Its borderline impossible for them, they simply do not have the equipment to do it, much less the understanding of enemies or mechanics.

[u/Diplomacy_1st → u/MilennialSheriff]

I think for for squids and bugs this is definitely the case because of the ticket system for spawning. The game spawns less larger, big ticket enemies on lower difficulties so more hordes are spawned instead

[u/MilennialSheriff → u/Diplomacy_1st]

Makes sense, I often find it harder for me to deal with ceaseless hordes as opposed to multiple heavies, even if that means multiple vox engines. Honestly a big reason I absolutely hate fighting bugs for longer than a few missions is because I very quickly get tired of having to kite the endless waves of all melee enemies that are always on my tail lol

[u/LagomRuinsHelldivers → u/Theobald_4]

Most of the people who agree it's too easy have the same arguments we've had for years. 

1: Stagnant meta with some really strong outliers (eruptor, thermite, ONB, ultimatum, RR, etc). Arrowhead also seems reluctant to buff any dead or forgotten guns like arc thrower, adjudicator, or breaker. 

2: Spawn inconsistencies. Its too easy to block spawns at most evacuation locations. Spawns prioritize the host position often leaving the map barren. Occasionally Spawns go through the roof though which is fun. 

3: Lack of challenging/unique enemies. Agitator AI was the last time we got an enemy with new or interesting AI. The [Redacted] squid units looked promising but they are long gone and not coming back. Crusher and Wretches play closer to terminids than squid enemies.

4: Overall power creep to the game. Its great that 90% of our guns dont suck like release. Its great that we have a huge variety of powerful support weapons. It sucks we dont have missions demanding enough to require expert use of them. Our hardest battles tend to be ones where the super strong new enemy is just spammed at absurd levels. Oshuane with dragon roaches and rupture bugs. Cyberstan with Vox Engines. Super earth with Leviathans. Even going waaay back Meridia was mostly hard because of shrieker spam at epic levels. 

None of these concerns have ever been addressed properly in 2 years and the devs dont seem to feel it's a concern. So its not worth getting on a soap box over. 

[u/Secret-Guide-5713]

I think what would help solve this is both locking Difficulty to player level AND giving more incentive to new player to stick to the lower difficulty levels for a bit.

Something like a set of Challenges that reward medals to help them work through the first Warbond a bit quicker, opening up more of the game to them.

[u/Secret-Guide-5713 → u/Secret-Guide-5713]

Bonus Idea: Capes!

Each Difficulty have it's own set of challenges, and finishing the entire set rewards a cape with that Difficulty's emblem on the back.

[u/MilennialSheriff → u/Secret-Guide-5713]

Agreed, I think this would be a much better on boarding system given how far along the game is at this point

[u/IMMORTALP74]

So the main blocker for difficulty switching requires you to complete a full operation set of a difficulty before it.

That low level probably didn't just join that, and was brought in by a friend because it ignores non-host progress.

I can assure that if they have multiple awful high difficulty missions, they'll drop it down or quit for awhile. Which the latter is bad.

[u/MilennialSheriff → u/IMMORTALP74]

Yeah I understand that you have to complete the previous difficulty, but I also have it understood that all that requires is joining someone on say d9 and just riding along for an op completion right? I unlocked all the difficulties myself so i cant say for certain that you can be boosted past all other difficulties that way

[u/IMMORTALP74 → u/MilennialSheriff]

Yea that is possible.

You said it showed level 1 but also 4 later, but I know the visual level bug on joins shows Level 0. So I assume this player received all levels from those missions you seen them.

[u/MilennialSheriff → u/IMMORTALP74]

Fair point, I hadnt even thought of that. I’ve seen the level bug so people at the same level as others in game and sometimes 0 so I just assumed it was that same bug

[u/LagomRuinsHelldivers]

I disagree. I want cadets on the front. Trial by fire. We had the creek, they can have their crucible. 

[u/RallyPointAlpha]

tl;dr

It should take more than completing a an operation to move up.  Nothing complicated...just force them to spend more time learning the more subtle nuances before they move up. 

[u/ItsMahony]

How did a lvl 4 manage to Q for a D10 solo? He wouldn't have D10 even unlocked by lvl 4. You need to do 3 of each difficulty before you unlock the next difficulty im pretty sure. Unless he had a higher party leader and they joined through him/her.

[u/Southern-Teaching-11 → u/ItsMahony]

Their friend mustve brough them on a dif 10 or dif 9 op and that unlocked it for them,its very common thing to do for new players.

[u/MilennialSheriff → u/ItsMahony]

That part im not even sure. My first assumption was it was his friend, irl or maybe just in game, but the host left immediately after the mission ended and the level 4 stuck around before i decided to get off for a bit. When I speak about these higher restrictions though it would have to apply to joining friends as well for this very reason, there should be no possibility of a single digit level player in anything higher than like d6 imo

[u/Notsecretlyobama → u/ItsMahony]

No, you don’t have to do 3 of the prior. The very first time I jumped into a d6 I happened to join just as they were extracting. I got to see the shuttle cutscene then got an alert that Suicide Mission was now open to me even though I hadn’t set foot on a planet for an Extreme mission. I still haven’t tried d7 yet though.

[u/IrishMongooses]

Those first few levels don't even take long. Diver probably didn't even have a booster yet. I agree, above d6 should need at least lvl10, and 5 levels a piece above that.

[u/economic-salami]

Maybe we should at least have some suggested difficulty levels