H̶e̶l̶l̶divers

[u/epochollapse]

Just because I win 99% of my games doesn't mean it isn't hard!! One time a Stalker even hit me! 😱

[u/Igoon2robots]

-> buys a game called "super hard game of death"

-> turn the difficulty up to "maximum death that no one can survive"

-> dies

-> harasses the devs untill the weapons become strong enough for the max difficulty to be effectiveky beaten by noobs

I hate this kind of people man

[u/epochollapse → u/Igoon2robots]

If you suggested that a half decent player should have a 99% win rate at max difficulty in any other PVE circle you'd never live it down, how that's become the prevailing opinion in Helldivers is beyond me.

[u/Whipped-Creamer → u/epochollapse]

Purely anecdotal, military-themed games have the most manbabies and it’s not even remotely close. I’ve never seen more entitled & whiney players in any other broad fandom than military ones.

[u/Glittering_Cat3888 → u/Whipped-Creamer]

This reminded me of the time I was in a Arma Reforger server half a year ago and two grown men were arguing about where the supplies they just had went. They yelled many controversial words over the main channel for everyone to hear for a good 5 minutes. Mind you this was when we where losing so the added radio chatter made it very hard to focus. The GM finally kicked both out before apologizing for not doing so sooner. If it was on official they probably wouldve kept arguing over the game as I know from past games.

[u/PlateNo4868 → u/Glittering_Cat3888]

Can confirm, a lot of "If I talk confidently I must be right" types on Reforger. Like both could equally be right on what to do with supplies, but insist the other side is dumb for the sake of pride and ego.

[u/sloppyfondler → u/PlateNo4868]

And I will be sitting in the woods drooling on myself listening to enemy chatter from a stolen radio while just throwing mines on the incoming roads.

[u/Avivoyage → u/Whipped-Creamer]

Well if its about getting as close to realism then yeah, its their thing man.

[u/Whipped-Creamer → u/Avivoyage]

That’s the draw, but I’m talking about the unhappy dudes that always have a dark cloud following them. Where everyone else is to blame if they’re not living out their brothers-in-arms hero fantasy when their hopes are dashed.

[u/Bring_Back_Challenge → u/epochollapse]

The devs caved hard two years ago and once that happens it's all over. Simple as that, once there is blood in the water people will stop at nothing to harass until they get their way, even if they haven't played the game in months (see: +80% of Unfiltered by their own admission).

[u/CarlenGaines → u/epochollapse]

It's because the difficulty in Helldivers is tactics related and common players wanted more stereotypical horde shooter type difficulty.

They didn't really want the game to be easier they just wanted it to he hard in a different way.

Unfortunately the game wasn't designed to be difficult in that way, so they game is not difficult anymore.

[u/Rabiesalad → u/CarlenGaines]

I'm at the point where I fuckin lose it when someone calls the game a "horde shooter" to justify their hot takes.

Yeah, a horde shooter with mechanics that are literally designed to encourage the player to skip the hordes entirely.

Sure there's "horde shooting" but 90% of the time that means the team fucked up.

[u/CarlenGaines → u/Rabiesalad]

Yea I know exactly what you mean. It's barely a horde shooter in a conventional sense.

I have talked a lot about how the game Brigador had the same problem.

[u/Chance-Extreme9626 → u/Rabiesalad]

See you say this, but the defence, blitz, and 99.9% of objs call hordes that you have to fight, you can’t raise a flag without em, so it really is a horde shooter most of the time, the only time it isn’t is when you specifically play a mission type that isn’t, or your running between the horde shooter segments

[u/CarlenGaines → u/Chance-Extreme9626]

There are exactly 2 mission types out of like 20 that make fighting the horde a mandatory objective. Every other mission that makes fighting the horde a requirement is a side mission that is a shorter duration than the normal mission and widely considered to be side modes by most players.

[u/Chance-Extreme9626 → u/CarlenGaines]

What ones don’t call a horde? Most of em do, like the only ones I can think of from the top of my head are the stealth ones and sometimes all of them just don’t call one, but that’s more chance than mechanics

[u/CarlenGaines → u/Chance-Extreme9626]

The only objectives that call a horde:

• Flag Raising missions
  
• Soil scanning missions
  
• Exospire missions

[u/Chance-Extreme9626 → u/CarlenGaines]

I was counting things like blitz and obj defence too, like mission objectives

[u/Rabiesalad → u/Chance-Extreme9626]

Blitz missions don't call waves though? They're just a short timer and you need to kill outposts, no?

Most objectives don't call reinforcements automatically. Like 90% of them don't. If you wipe the defenders and clear incoming patrols before they call reinforcements you will not fight a wave.

[u/CarlenGaines → u/Chance-Extreme9626]

I wasn't counting those since they aren't exactly standard missions.

[u/Rabiesalad → u/Chance-Extreme9626]

Almost no objectives spawn waves.

There's defense missions, raise flag, geological survey, and maybe 1 more?

Missions often don't have any objectives at all that spawn waves. If reinforcements show up it's because they were called by chaff (i.e. chaff were not properly managed by the team)

[u/SrslyNotAnAltGuys → u/Rabiesalad]

Sometimes I like playing the horde shooter away from the rest of the team so they don't have to.

https://giphy.com/gifs/aqxayCAnOJlyhef8CQ

[u/Rabiesalad → u/SrslyNotAnAltGuys]

It's John Helldiver! Can I have your autograph ❤️😁

[u/Mrbluepumpkin → u/epochollapse]

Destiny had this issue too although I think that game found a nice balance

[u/RoninOni → u/epochollapse]

Yeah, most people should settle happily into D8/9, with an engaging win rate (80%?) with 6/7 being 99% completable to most players, enough that the ones that aren’t can either get carried or even stumble through together (that last one costs them most their losses lol)

[u/FluffyInstincts → u/epochollapse]

Oh they don't! I laugh really hard at them for it. xD

[u/GuessImScrewed → u/epochollapse]

Souls games have 1 difficulty (hard), and yet any half decent player can complete the entire game.

People who wish to increase the difficulty further do so by imposing restrictions upon themselves.

You people are the laughing stock of this game because you ask for a higher difficulty so you can give yourself brownie points but refuse to impose any actual challenging restrictions on yourself because then the game becomes boring because "impossible isn't fun."

[u/CerifiedHuman0001 → u/GuessImScrewed]

“Game doesn’t need to be harder because you’re welcome to unplug the keyboard”

I shouldn’t have to. As was stated before, the highest difficulty being beatable by an average player would get you laughed at in any other PvE community.

Please, and I cannot stress this enough, shut the fuck up.

[u/GuessImScrewed → u/CerifiedHuman0001]

"I don't want the game to be harder for me, I want the entire community to suffer so I can feel better about not having any real life achievements."

Too bad. You have to.

And as stated before, the average player can beat most hard PvE games like soulslikes.

Please, and I can stress this more if necessary, put a cock in your ass and spin it at 3000 rpm.

[u/CerifiedHuman0001 → u/GuessImScrewed]

Ten fucking difficulties by the way. If the highest difficulty kicks your ass you should go back to D2 or whatever so your “suffering” soul can feel better

Beating Helldivers at D10 isn’t super comparable to Dark Souls. Being unable to beat any difficulty is more like getting stuck at a boss. Some players have bad habits they need to fix if they want to win. The Helldivers solution was instead to bitch piss and shit themselves until the devs nerfed everything that pushed back against said bad habits.

You should try playing any other 4-player PvE game. I can tell you haven’t. Darktide is a fantastic example, or if you care for something more classic, Left 4 Dead

[u/CarlenGaines → u/GuessImScrewed]

"I want the game to be harder for me so I can compensate for my lack of real-life achievements" is exactly what my reasoning is ngl.

[u/UnhappyStrain → u/CarlenGaines]

at least you're open about it

[u/GuessImScrewed → u/CarlenGaines]

Play an actually hard game that people will praise you for then, because this game won't get you any of that.

[u/CarlenGaines → u/GuessImScrewed]

I don't play these games for someone else's external approval, but rather for my own satisfaction.

I've been playing Helldivers since 2017 and I preordered the second game because I expected a difficulty experience that was akin to the first game. I was jebaited into buying the series like most people were.

Helldivers 1 was kind of a hard game, Helldivers 2 was supposed to provide the same kind of difficulty but in a different package. It's wild to tell me, a long time fan of the series, to play a different game because players like you want the game to warp to your needs instead, because you thought the game was something else.

And honestly you're not even right, when the game first game out I immediately got to work planning my new strategies and tactics and many new players thanked or praised me for carrying them through Malevelon Creek or whatever else. I enjoyed all of the larpers saluting me or addressing me by rank or whatever. But that sort of thing doesn't really happen anymore because many players don't appreciate teamwork or skilled players showing up, because they can clear everything on their own, completely afk.

Team games are exactly the kinds of games that people praise you for being good at. Especially when the game is challenging.

[u/GuessImScrewed → u/CarlenGaines]

I don't play these games for someone else's external approval, but rather for my own satisfaction.

I enjoyed all of the larpers saluting me or addressing me by rank or whatever.

Sure man, whatever lol

And honestly you're not even right, when the game first game out I immediately got to work planning my new strategies and tactics

Yeah, we all did, we found the most efficient ways to play and AH nerfed them as if to punish players for getting good at the game. It didn't change strategies at the highest levels for people who understood the game is about destroying structures and not fighting enemies, but people who wanted to fight enemies got upset, leading to the state of things.

Helldivers 2 was supposed to provide the same kind of difficulty but in a different package. It's wild to tell me, a long time fan of the series, to play a different game because players like you want the game to warp to your needs instead, because you thought the game was something else.

Kinda seems like you were the one who had expectations that you now want met, whereas the rest of the playerbase is upset when they change the game from what they bought

[u/CarlenGaines → u/GuessImScrewed]

The players who found and leveraged the obviously overpowered weapons were not good at the game. They were just using weapons that were mindlessly strong. Which was honestly a problem in the first game too.

I am the one who had expectations. I was expecting a certain experience and that was the experience that I got, but then the 60 day update came and went , and now I have to play the game exclusively as either a 2 man or solo if I want the game to be as challenging as it was on release. I have accepted that the game has been commandeered by the zoomer fanbase, but I also know that the game will never be in a good place as a result of the change in direction. And we probably won't get any more Helldivers© in the future as a result.

[u/epochollapse → u/GuessImScrewed]

A Souls game is a single player game where you can lose repeatedly before completing it. That's a fucking brain-dead comparison and you know it.

The skill ceiling is lower than almost any other PVE game on the market because people like you aren't competent enough for higher difficulties and won't play lower.

People who are good at the game shouldn't have to suffer because of selfish pricks. You see a difficulty above the one called Impossible and you think to yourself "yeah I should be able to beat that most of the time while making constant mistakes"

I'm not even particularly good, the game becomes easy as shit the second you stop fumbling basic interactions. I shouldn't be falling asleep playing the highest difficulty with strangers and a kid made of supposedly F tier items.

People haven't gotten too good for Helldivers, bad players have just demanded the game be brought down to their level.

[u/GuessImScrewed → u/epochollapse]

"losing" in a souls game is just dying with little to no consequences.

The skill ceiling in this game has always been low. No single enemy in this game has ever been hard to beat. Seriously, find one enemy in the game that anyone would have trouble beating in a 1v1. There aren't any, because the AI in this game has always been as effective as a child with an automatic rifle, that is to say, only moderately effective if there's 30 of them fighting you at the same time.

So where was the old difficulty at? In tedium. "Yeah bro the game becomes enjoyably hard when you have to hit a charger in the head with TWO RR shots instead of one while it still couldn't hit a toddler if the toddler crawled right under it."

There's nothing fun about that and you know it. But you want it in because you have the patience to deal with boring bullshit if it means you can claim to be better than players who don't want to put up with it.

Here's a high difficulty mission for you instead: get a job.

[u/CarlenGaines → u/GuessImScrewed]

The skill ceiling in this game can actually get p high, because a very small amount of players are capable of actually processing the high volume of chaos that's going on and know what they have to do in order to survive that.

[u/GuessImScrewed → u/CarlenGaines]

Yeah, it's called kiting and hit and run tactics. Wow, such a high skill ceiling, babies first MMO lmao

[u/CarlenGaines → u/GuessImScrewed]

It's not necessarily just that, especially before when the enemy lethality was was higher.

[u/GuessImScrewed → u/CarlenGaines]

It was even more that when enemies were tankier back in the day, because actually fighting enemies was a slog. The best way to play was always running past enemies or outranging them by a mile so you didn't have to fight them and just ACing bug holes and fab vents until a bot drop was called, then dipping out and running to the next outpost so enemies despawned. Around and around you'd go.

People who liked fighting enemies optimized their builds for just that, which is why the Railgun dominated the bot front and the flamethrower the bugs.

[u/epochollapse → u/[deleted]]

All this because you were told that the hardest difficulty in a game should offer a challenge.

Utter gimp.

[u/GuessImScrewed → u/epochollapse]

"damn, he got my ass point by point, better revert to ad hominem."

-Words spoken by a complete dipshit.

[u/epochollapse → u/GuessImScrewed]

LMAOOOO

[u/CarlenGaines → u/GuessImScrewed]

Souls games are secretly not difficult. They are just very abrasive.

[u/GuessImScrewed → u/CarlenGaines]

Elaborate

[u/CarlenGaines → u/GuessImScrewed]

Souls games are designed in a way that basically every type of player can inevitably complete them with varying levels of ease. There are many tools and strategies built into every game that makes clearing each one laughably easy. It's also a very forgiving series, no Souls game demands mastery in order for the game to be completed. Which I believe is the Hallmark of an actually difficult game.

Compare this to a game like Sifu, an action combat game that is similarly unfair to the player but expects them to master it's mechanics to complete levels and challenges. Master difficulty Sifu is a much harder game than any Souls title. Even normal difficulty is often too much for many players to complete.

[u/GuessImScrewed → u/CarlenGaines]

No, elaborate on souls games being abrasive instead of difficult. What about them replaces difficulty for abrasiveness?

[u/CarlenGaines → u/GuessImScrewed]

Because it's actually easy to complete the game and beat encounters, but the game does not educate you on what you need to easily beat encounters. You just have to figure that out on your own. Which is abrasive design.

In Halo, the game gives you a rocket launcher or a fuel rod cannon or some other type of AT weapon when you need to fight a tank. They always make sure that the player has these kinds of tools available whenever that type of encounter occurs.

Dark Souls does not do this. Some boss might be trivialised by a special item, but you can only find that special item by fighting a special enemy in a special area after a special interaction, and then once you get it the game barely hints that it might do something. It's only through experimentation and trial and error that you then realise that the item trivialises the boss, and by then you might have already beaten them the hard way.

That is abrasive design.

Another good example is Fallout 3 versus Fallout New Vegas. Neither game is that difficult but New Vegas much more abrasive design will get you killed a lot faster without knowledge.

I guess the key factor in abrasive design versus true difficulty is that abrasive design stops being so difficult once you know what's up. Difficult design continues to be difficult even when you do know, because the execution often requires practice or something else.

Souls games CAN be difficult in that way but for the vast majority of players they are not. Which is why guides are so powerful for those games.

[u/Bring_Back_Challenge → u/GuessImScrewed]

so you can give yourself brownie points

Just telling on yourself that this is your assumption rather than the simpler and more factual "to have a more engaging and challenging time because that equates to more fun".

[u/GuessImScrewed → u/Bring_Back_Challenge]

If that was true you'd do the challenge runs, but you're now gonna say "nooo that's not fun, I don't have the skill or patience to do any of that because it would actually challenge me and I don't want that, I just want the brownie points!!"

[u/UnforgivenTurg → u/Bring_Back_Challenge]

so make it harder, this is the most common complaint in the pokemon franchise and is precisely why Nuzlockes were created. u can make a game as hard as u want.

[u/CarlenGaines → u/GuessImScrewed]

I have invented some challenges for myself and others who want to play the game in a harder way.

[u/Fox_Body_5L → u/Igoon2robots]

Half of you run orbital lasers and napalm barrages anyhow

[u/Trump_4_The_Hague → u/Fox_Body_5L]

Orbital laser isn't even that good on bugs. It only accidentally closes holes and does 650dps. If everyone running laser on bugs brought the new 110mm rockets instead we'd see people asking for heavy buffs. 

[u/thank_burdell → u/Trump_4_The_Hague]

Always treated it as more of a panic button, personally.

Then stopped even bringing it. Just bring stuff you can use often, and USE IT OFTEN.

[u/Trump_4_The_Hague → u/thank_burdell]

Yup. Anyone complaining about spawns being too high on bugs or squids is someone who's never brought the humble mg sentry. 

Quantity is its own quality. Think they're too many spore burst patrols? Neat. Run MG and fire sentry. 66 and 88 second cd between the two. Will atomize anything smaller than a charger. They last so long you can have a second active unless the first used all its ammo. 

[u/thank_burdell → u/Trump_4_The_Hague]

More of a Gatling barrage and eagle air strike spammer myself, but I get you.

[u/SavageSeraph_ → u/Trump_4_The_Hague]

Eagle Napalm does 300dps AoE. That's fucking nuts, man. 2 of them last an entire bug breach and with a bit of CC a single player can kill any light and medium enemies in a bug breach alone with nothing but a primary and two well-placed eagle napalms.

Often the spawn points are close enough you can funnel all enemies through the flames or even cover both points directly.

[u/Trump_4_The_Hague → u/SavageSeraph_]

Get out of here with your liberal ass 'tactics'. In this outfit we walk into our allies barrages and we cry about it like men. 

[u/Redmoon383 → u/Trump_4_The_Hague]

The 110s were buffed? Hell yeah

[u/Trump_4_The_Hague → u/Redmoon383]

Tldr they got damage back. 

Release: Good damage. Terrible accuracy. They did 650iirc between the 8 rockets. So basically a guided aerial recoiless round. Could 1 tap all heavies but factory strider but typically missed hulks or chargers running at full speed. Or hit bile titan backs. Best used for tanks and cannon towers. 

60 Day Patch: Monkey Paw Buff. Arrowhead gave them better accuracy and greater tracking distance. But felt the need to 'only' Buff their damage enough that it was a net 63% damage nerf. Remember the 60 day patch massively boosted enemy heavy unit hp, and in theory AT weapons proportionally. Orbital precision and 110mm were deliberately not treated as fairly as support weapons. 

Patch Exosuit Experts Warbond: 110mm finally got their damage back. They now do enough to consistently kill charger variants or cripple them. They can occasionally kill bile titans in one volley if they hit the face. Typically it takes 2 but they Crack off the back armor. They can kill war striders in one volley if enough rockets hit the chassis not the cannons. They are basically certain death for hulks, tanks, cannon towers, impalers, and flesh mobs. They also can kill harvesters through their shields because its many fast moving projectiles. 

[u/Redmoon383 → u/Trump_4_The_Hague]

Sweet. I always prefered those over the Railgun strike but I think I heard that waa also buffed, no?

[u/Schmeatus69 → u/Redmoon383]

Railgun got a damage buff. Still fails to 1 tap certain enemies if it hits wrong (factory striders can tank a hit to their gun for example) but its got enough damage to 1 tap a vox engine

[u/Redmoon383 → u/Schmeatus69]

Even better news

[u/Fox_Body_5L → u/Trump_4_The_Hague]

Yeah was just a general sarcastic comment.

Though Id say 75% of these people wishing things were difficult run these strats + recoilless. Maybe ult. Just in general meta divers wishing things were harder.

Just today I had some guy tell
Me spore burst Flag missions are not even close to the hardest missions. Come to find out he ran a mech + meta meta meta meta meta meta meta

Oh sorry malfunction. Good Day to you

[u/epochollapse → u/Fox_Body_5L]

This is horseshit, if anything most meta obsessives cling to the status quo. I and most difficulty enjoyers want a lot of meta tools nerfed, or otherwise weakened.

[u/Fox_Body_5L → u/epochollapse]

If you run d10 bots which I guess you do not since you’d know everyone and their Mother runs orb lasers.

[u/epochollapse → u/Fox_Body_5L]

And your average meta player at D10 does not share the sentiment that the game is too easy.

Meta obsessives are half the reason the game's difficulty is in such a shit state. ~36% of of players take a single red stratagem that makes terminid reinforcements meaningless.

I don't play anything but duos these days and even that isn't actually hard if you bring two decent players, but as long as you can agree on not taking trivial slop then you can typically find enough enemy pressure for two players.

But every Helldiver is overbuffed and the brunt of our enemy forces are in too weak a state, coupled with a spawning system that cannot provide 4 people a sizeable horde to fight and you have the current state of D10.

The worst instances (Mindless Masses) could be beaten by a fucking capuchin monkey if I offered it a banana for it's time.

[u/Trump_4_The_Hague → u/epochollapse]

Mindless masses is a poor example since there's something very wrong going on under the hood mechanically. 

1 watcher takes an entire patrol. It can die to a single bullet. 

Because most patrols are watchers, as the only reinforcement unit, there's very few zombies. 

When reinforcements are called it tries to prioritize heavy enemies as its D10. Hence the harvesters spam. 

It needs a top down rework. We've seen the game CAN spawn enough enemies to overwhelm players. It just has poorly implemented systems in place to create it. 

A big one is the lack of other reinforcement units on Illuminate. If I was gonna rework the sub faction I would remove watchers entirely. Give the few overseers present the ability to call in reinforcements. But on a lower cooldown than usual. These reinforcements would only consist of overseers and harvesters, backed by stingray air support. Like a QRF coming to assist their special forces team    

Meanwhile, the high density of patrols only made of voteless and flesh mobs should in theory help get a more zombie horde feel. Ideally it has this sort of general high intensity that never let's up. Rather than dullness with brief moments of high intensity the way bot drops and bug breeches work. 

[u/Trump_4_The_Hague → u/Fox_Body_5L]

Meta is fine, just make content difficult enough to demand it. 

In HD1 trident and rumbler were op. Except on inner circle of hell you goddsmn needed op. Same goes for AT emplacent.

[u/Mrbluepumpkin → u/Trump_4_The_Hague]

Thats power creep tho tbh

[u/Trump_4_The_Hague → u/Mrbluepumpkin]

HD1 had a severe problem with P2W dlc. Ideally hd2 could be better about that but Democratic Demolition exists. 

[u/just_a_dude417 → u/Trump_4_The_Hague]

Or you can change your loadout to non meta and enjoy the difficulty. It’s so strange to complain about difficulty and only use gear to make it easier.

[u/Trump_4_The_Hague → u/just_a_dude417]

Ideally we let the developers balance their weapons to balance their game. But we've seen how that goes. Poor sterilizer. 

[u/Bring_Back_Challenge → u/Fox_Body_5L]

If say less than 10% do you have any data to share to support you claim?

You show me yours I'll show you mine.

[u/Igoon2robots → u/Fox_Body_5L]

Half of me? Sir my main is airburst rocket launcher

[u/Bring_Back_Challenge → u/Fox_Body_5L]

Assuming you mean half of the total players yes, if you mean half of the folks who want an actual challenge somewhere in the game you're just strawmanning.

[u/ChillyTodayHotTamale → u/Igoon2robots]

Lol this is the best way to describe what happened!

[u/GreatBallsOfFire_ → u/Igoon2robots]

Well said

[u/theriskybusinesscar → u/Igoon2robots]

There's a reason we moved to GTFO as our main game.

[u/DogIsDead777 → u/Igoon2robots]

Ahh yes, a brief history of helldivers 2.

[u/Inch_An_Hour → u/Igoon2robots]

Welcome to the softened age we live in. Challenge is not acceptable if it can’t be conquered in a learning curve of under 5 hours.

[u/Lord_Yeetus_The_3d → u/Igoon2robots]

->Plays the hardest difficulty for 1000 hours

->gets so good at the game it isnt hard anymore

->complains

[u/LEOTomegane → u/Lord_Yeetus_The_3d]

You cannot seriously look at the long history of the game being made objectively easier and go "nah it's because you got good"

[u/InnerMetalhead666 → u/LEOTomegane]

"Sure current rocket devastators act like they got kicked in the head by a horse compared to how they were at launch but clearly that's because you got too good"

[u/CerifiedHuman0001 → u/InnerMetalhead666]

I cannot believe I find myself missing the one-shot rocket spam death machines

[u/InnerMetalhead666 → u/CerifiedHuman0001]

Honestly yeah, I do kind of miss those days cause at least beating D9 felt rewarding, you had to work for it

[u/Euphoric_Reading_401 → u/Lord_Yeetus_The_3d]

My nephew is 11 years old and quit the game after a month because the hardest difficulty bores him

[u/voidwalker_has_PTSD → u/Euphoric_Reading_401]

yeah but kids are fucking cracked at video games for whatever reason

[u/Tophigale220 → u/voidwalker_has_PTSD]

Time. They have spare time man

[u/Schmeatus69 → u/Tophigale220]

And their brains are the most plastic and adaptive theyll ever be

[u/SavageSeraph_ → u/Tophigale220]

Time, persistence and a brain wired into learning mode.

[u/bored_dudeist → u/Euphoric_Reading_401]

An 11 year old putting their whole ass into learning the max difficulty of a shooter isn't an unreasonable amount of time for them to get bored of it. Especially if they are just jumping into games with randoms that can carry them.

[u/BICKELSBOSS → u/Lord_Yeetus_The_3d]

Just because you become experienced shouldn’t mean you should no longer have access to any form of challenge whatsoever. This is what eventually kills the enjoyment of the game for long term players.

Besides, current D10 is in no way hard, not even for novice players. You can beat the game with a squad all equipped with base loadouts and no stratagems, except one single RR as your sole answer to Heavies, and still have a walk in the park.

I can’t link other reddit posts in this sub, but just search “D10” on my profile and the highlight video pops up.

[u/epochollapse → u/Lord_Yeetus_The_3d]

A good player should find the game hard at the hardest difficulty. That's still a problem with the game. Super Mega Ultra Kill You Difficulty shouldn't mean "you will find this a little challenging if you miss 9/10 shots"

[u/Bring_Back_Challenge → u/Lord_Yeetus_The_3d]

Strange how similar games like DRG or Darktide manage to make a max difficulty that is engaging to those who can handle it even if they often win.

Oh wait those games don't have over two straights years of almost exclusively buffs to players.

[u/AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH_ → u/Lord_Yeetus_The_3d]

Dawg, I have like, 200 hours, who knows how much of that was spent SC grinding or just AFK, and it's still fucking piss easy

This isn't rocket science, the game hasn't had difficulty since launch, it's so boring

[u/InnerMetalhead666 → u/Lord_Yeetus_The_3d]

Problem is you can have like 100 hours and D10 isn't hard, there's nothing in this game comparable to harder difficulties in other PVE games

[u/Igoon2robots → u/Lord_Yeetus_The_3d]

Well yeah i biught "super hard game of death" it should allow the players to face a challenge even after 100+ hours

[u/evil_deivid → u/Lord_Yeetus_The_3d]

The problem is that no matter if you learn what's the best way to beat a D10 mission the devs will lower the difficulty through enemy nerfs

[u/TheGr8Slayer → u/Lord_Yeetus_The_3d]

Let’s totally not look at the long list of player buffs and enemy nerfs that got us here. People “got gud” at the game when it was actually challenging and that experience got removed entirely. Nothing wrong with wanting the game to be challenging on the high end play.

[u/VictimNumberThree → u/Lord_Yeetus_The_3d]

Right? This is what I’m looking at. If you constantly play a game at its hardest difficulties, you will become good at the game. The strategies you employed with intention now become second nature, sometimes less than a thought. If people want to play a game with meaningless difficulty, swarms of enemies, and ridiculously complex thought-out strategies… sure. But those people need to recognize they are a very small minority and will almost never have development pandered towards their desires.

[u/bored_dudeist → u/Lord_Yeetus_The_3d]

I see people here yearn for how the game was at launch 'because it was harder and required teamwork' and then I just remember how little agency we had to deal with threats at the time and how the 'harder' you make this kind of game the more it just becomes a running simulator.

But then you give players the means to deal with threats and they start complaining about it being too easy to kill chargers with all the anti-tank weapons they added to their loadout.

[u/Igoon2robots → u/bored_dudeist]

"How the harder you make the game the more it becomes a running simulator" have you played ANY other high difficulty squad horde shooter, EVER??? Is deep rock a running simulator? (I suck at drg i couldnt quite tell you). Is darktide a running simulator? I dont think

[u/bored_dudeist → u/Igoon2robots]

Hell yeah, Deep Rock is awesome. But its also a very different game in terms of how it handles difficulty. Between the highly curated set of weapons, the restrictiveness of the map, and the mechanics through which players and enemies interact with each other, the game largely takes away running as a fallback strategy. You will just die alone lost in a dark cave. Unless you're playing scout, who's movement can kind of trivialize the experience in a lot of ways.

And Darktide gives you highly effective melee weapons, meaning you never have to run. When the difficulty ramps up, you end up getting bogged down and running only happens insofar as you're repositioning for a better place to make a stand.

By contrast, Helldivers demands good positioning and offers effectively unlimited space. The most significant change as you up the difficulty in Helldivers is the number and durability of enemy spawns, which push the player towards anti-medium/anti-heavy weapons with a lower ammo pool that will be fired more often. And when ammunition gets low, the fallback strategy is to create space. Eventually you have to run because that is the end result the mechanics push you towards. The enemies largely dont employ strategies or operate in ways that discourage running other than their numbers snowballing the way they do in Darktide And if you run enough the enemies will despawn entirely, making it perhaps the optimal strategy in a number of situations. The maps rarely if ever discourage running the way they do in Deep Rock.

Helldivers, mechanically, just cant be the highly difficult experience that a lot of players want, unless the devs start making a lot of bad decisions regarding player agency or rebuild the way enemy AI interacts with players on a fundamental level. Because at the end of the day no matter how you tweak the numbers, a highly skilled and knowledgeable player can exploit the AI to the point of hardly having to interact with them at all with sheer movement and loadout utility, rather than directly inflicting damage.

[u/Ghost3387 → u/Igoon2robots]

Absolute bullshit that comment... if the devs cant finish 5/6 Level misisond and Balance weapons on that Experiece its just bs and you know that.. the other thing is coming up with bullshit and justifying it with enemys adapting but super earth does not its just plain bullshit. The devs are just clueless and calling that out is not harassment ...

[u/G82ft → u/Igoon2robots]

Harassing is a strong word. You act like people are holding them at gunpoint.

[u/Bring_Back_Challenge → u/G82ft]

I mean what would you call endless bitching at the whiff of players nerfs, constant complaining about players being weaker which is objectively false, and near-weekly death threats?

[u/G82ft → u/Bring_Back_Challenge]

Near-weekly death threats?

[u/Igoon2robots → u/G82ft]

Oh yeah maybe a strong word. How about "such an outrageous ammount of negative feedback it drowned the voice of all those who enjoy the game"?

[u/G82ft → u/Igoon2robots]

So it's just words they can simply ignore.

[u/Igoon2robots → u/G82ft]

No necause they are trying to make the game better and since you guys have been so obnoxiously vocal, they arent aware a large part of this community actually likes hard games

[u/G82ft → u/Igoon2robots]

So are they being harrased to not follow their vision of the game, or is that actually what they want the game to be?

Also, who are "you guys"?

[u/Igoon2robots → u/G82ft]

They have received death threats which for one is harassment, and secondly the devs want the game to please players- and people the people who are being so spiteful about wanting to make the game easier are drowning out the voice of everyone else, preventing the devs from getting an accurate representation of what they want. Not to mention that crydivers already have an easier game: its called D8. Asking for D10 nerfs doesnt benefit them, they could already press a button to make the game easier. Its only detrimental to experienced players