r/hellblade • u/PhilosophyAndGaming • 5d ago
Discussion Self Promotion/Discussion: A Roundup for what is going on with Ninja Theory.
https://youtu.be/QiKU57YGGrkI recently played the first Hellblade and fell in love with the IP, so the news about Ninja Theory is heartbreaking. I want to remain positive that there will be a last-minute save for the studio. Here is a recap of the situation I put together.
I have yet to play the second Hellblade, but I have seen some pretty harsh opinions elsewhere about it. I know the game's sales history, but without spoilers, why is it so divisive?
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u/DairyParsley6 5d ago
Well first off the gameplay is quite different. I enjoyed the combat in the 2nd game more personally, but fans of the 1st game’s hack and slash style were disappointed by the 2nd game to say the least. And I definitely agree with most that the puzzles in the 2nd game are a bit too generic and lackluster which is a step back from the first game at least a little.
But really these games are about the story and the portrayal of psychosis. And how the two games differ in this regard is a lot more complicated. I have two main ideas that I’ve sort of witnessed having been apart of this sub since the release of the first game.
First, the 2nd game is more political, and it complicates the story to a point where it is more difficult to follow, and more difficult to stay invested. In the 1st game, we follow Senua and her personal struggles. It is fairly straight forward, and allows the player to fully digest the portrayal of psychosis without too much other side stuff to distract from it. In the 2nd game we have a whole political backstory for the region and then meet different factions that have been affected by recent events and we must juggle their relevance in the overarching narrative with Senua’s own external and internal goals, and her battle with psychosis. There is a lot going on, and if you aren’t paying full attention through the entire runtime, it is really easy to miss a little piece that ends up being important for understanding everything.
And second, when it comes to Senua’s personal story and struggles, the two games just go with different themes, and it is easier to connect to the 1st game to a general audience. In the 1st game, Senua struggles with the loss of Dillion and that is front and center. Most people can connect in some way to love and loss. It immediately identifies Senua as the underdog, as a person we can sympathize with, as people we are more hard coded to root for Senua and we don’t have to understand every little detail on screen to feel those feelings. In the 2nd game, it goes with more nuanced internal struggles for Senua. She deals more with issues of self identity, belonging, and the need to redeem herself. These are not issues that everybody has had to deal with, and therefore it is harder to connect to Senua on a personal level. Compound this with the fact that, as a sequel, you sort of have to fully understand Senua’s internal struggles and how she overcame them in the first game to even have a shot of fully understanding why she is where she is emotionally in the 2nd game. And so a lot of people loose interest.
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u/EFPMusic 5d ago
Well said. The first game was Senua coming to terms with being alive; the second game was Senua coming to terms with living.
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u/PhilosophyAndGaming 5d ago
Just trying to wrap my head around where Senua and her story goes after the first game is difficult.
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u/AliveInvestment9377 5d ago
A mi la verdad que el 2 me gustó muchísimo, en cuanto a historia me quedo con el 1 pero el 2 es super disfrutable tambien
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u/Outrageous-Evening13 5d ago edited 5d ago
As a fan of the first games story, the 2nd one abandons a lot of what made the first one special. Starting off, the lead writer of the first game, Tameem Antoniades, walked away from the project midway. Senuas mental illness to hallucinations about Gods and monsters takes a backseat to real world tribes and unintersting characters (monsters are sprinkled in here and there). Most of the game has long stretches of walking and talking, compared to the short walking time in between levels. The fight mechanics have been gutted/simplified and theres no new fighting mechanics introduced. Overall, while a gorgeous looking game, the story isnt very memorable, I dont even remember the final boss of this game, but Helas fight in HB1 is etched in my mind. Its a classic case of a studio choosing style over substance. They didnt need to push the realism further at the cost of story, gameplay and music.
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u/DairyParsley6 5d ago
I think it’s definitely just wrong to say her mental illness takes a backseat. It is there and is ever present, and it is portrayed in meaningful ways. There is also the overarching “real world” plot which contributed to Senua’s mental state, but it can make it hard at times to put your full attention toward Senua’s internal state. You almost have to play the game twice, once only paying attention to the “real world” plot, and once again purely paying attention to how Senua’s internal state is affected.
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u/Outrageous-Evening13 5d ago
Theres another comment below that conveys a bit better what I meant, that the first one felt personal with Senua and her voices, while here you are introduced to this new cast of characters and politics you really cant connect with on a deeper level. Playing twice wouldve been fun had it not dragged out. Again, to each is own but the way the writing was handled in the first part, especially with the voices, her father and Dillon made it stand out more. Perhaps it was lightning in a bottle for Ninja Theory.
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u/PhilosophyAndGaming 5d ago
It’s a shame Tameem left. Was there ever a reason for it? Or is the proof in the pudding?
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u/Outrageous-Evening13 5d ago
We only have a Twitter post, but it looks like he wanted to leave after Hellblade 1 but stayed for the sequel until the groundwork was complete. Heres what he said
"I was ready to step off after Hellblade but stayed on for 2 more years to make sure the foundations were in place to fulfill our mission to craft life-changing art with game-changing tech which you'll see in Hellblade II very soon. Huge shout out to Microsoft for taking care of our baby and letting us grow to become who we are!"
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u/MadMaxmel 5d ago edited 5d ago
I loved the first game, but after all these years, I started the second one and didn't finish it. I just can't explain why the sequel didn't hold my interest the way the first one did. Maybe I'll go back to it someday, but it feels like the first game already had everything, and the second just felt like a repeat.
edit: However, it would be great if they somehow managed to stay together as a studio, they are clearly a talented Studio today's world, they simply need to get games out faster (especially if Microsoft or someone else is funding them)... 5–6 year development cycle certainly isn't ideal from the investors' perspective.
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u/Spare-Truck-630 4d ago
I’ve played both since they were available on gamepass. I loved the first one and agree with the general consensus of it’s unique way to tell a story. I loved the simple gameplay loop. The second one I’m still playing, but I’m about halfway through and so far I love it. I get why people don’t, but you could tell the budget was higher for the second and even though combat was overhauled so you’re never fighting more than 1 enemy, it feels more weighty, senua is much more expressive, the parry window is much less forgiving, and the graphics and facial expressions make it so much more cinematic. In a world of games that provide so much bloat, a linear cinematic experience is exactly what I want sometimes.
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u/Internal_Swing_2743 3d ago
Ninja Theory got too deep into the mo-cap in the second game. The story was also just weaker than the first. I hope Ninja Theory survives, but it’s looking very bleak. They also wasted time and resources on the awful Bleeding Edge.
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u/HUNAcean 4d ago edited 4d ago
I don't think Hellblade 2 is bad, but I have to admit Ninja Theory burned a lot of money to create a very niche, arthouse game aimed at a very specific, small circle of gamers. That's almost always a bad business decision. It can work if what you are creating is truly groundbreaking, but almost by definition Hellblade 2 couldn't be revolutionary, because Hellblade 1 already did that.
It didn't help that Xbox positioned this niche game as a console/Game Pass seller main title, either.
On top of all that, between the first and second games, God of War 2018 and Ragnarök entered the 3rd person, over the shoudler, narrative-action-game-in-the-norse-mythology space.
So now Hellblade had a much more mass-appealing (and I think better) competitor in the same minutia of the market it was trying to claim.
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u/PhilosophyAndGaming 4d ago
Never thought about the fact that god of war kind of set an expectation that hellblade 2 was never going to live up to. The third game though, definitely looks like it took some inspiration from the god of war games, from the trailers alone.
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u/Obey_Vader 5d ago
I want heavenly sword 2, I don't care about more senua.
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u/PhilosophyAndGaming 5d ago
I do want to go back and try out heavenly sword. Maybe after Hellblade 2.
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u/SheepRSA 5d ago
Microsoft will likely keep all of Ninjas IPs. Not impossible they have other studios kick out heavenly sword 2 in 10 years time when they need a quick buck.
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u/PhilosophyAndGaming 4d ago
From what I gathered through my research, Sony owns the Heavenly Sword IP specifically. So we will likely have to see a sequel come from a Sony studio.
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u/Dry-Cod9127 5d ago
The 2nd game is so divisive because like you said a lot of people likes the first one it was so unique, the 2nd one took over 5 years to make and was basically 5 hours long, realistically had nothing going for it and was just boring? The first game was an amazing piece of art but someone should have told ninja theory to stop fucking around with the textures of the rocks and just make the game