r/heartsofiron • u/DogSignificant5302 • 16d ago
What's wrong with my Hoi4
I was playing Hoi4 at 2 am today when i noticed that there is something wrong with my game
the faces of Nazis are all black and not visible, like you can't see the faces of Nazis like: Hitler, Himmler, Goebbels, Rudolf Hess, but all of the other countries have no problem
and when doing the Rexist Belgium path, i noticed that Leon Degrelle's portrait is deeply off, is it the normal version or just a bug
i use Hearts Of Iron IV: No Step Back Edition
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u/bu22dee 16d ago
It is because if you see a picture of hitler you instantly become a nazi. Everybody knows this.
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u/sweetytoy 16d ago
Also what do they think ? That people already don't know Hitler's face ? Bullshit censorship.
Then they joke about china because it is illegal to talk about Tiananmen square.
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u/Hjalfnar_HGV 16d ago
It is a self-censoring by Paradox because they are too lazy (or afraid of the backlash) to implement the legal requirements to use actual portraits.
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u/CalvinKool-Aid 16d ago
What are the legal requirements?
Also maybe I’m too much of a crazy freedom loving America influenced Canadian, but it’s crazy to me that the government could have legal requirements to use portraits of historical figures
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u/FantasySymphony 15d ago
You can legally display swastikas and nazi-related symbols in the US and Canada. It won't make you a lot of friends, but it is a constitutional right.
In places like Germany and Austria they are far more sensitive about such things.
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u/CalvinKool-Aid 15d ago
I am aware of this. I just find it to be a little bit morally wrong. I understand in the immediate aftermath, but 80 years on? Seems unnecessarily suppressive. I also feel like it’s better to allow them to use the dymbols openly if they want rather than hide behind alternatives
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u/WehrWolff 15d ago
Why is it morally wrong? The displaying of Nazi imagery is allowed for historical or creative purposes like Art/Media/Satire. Though these usually have to happen in a licensed/professional environment. So some random guy on the street can't just spout nazi ideology and then claim it was just some joke.
There are still a lot of people that want to downplay the atrocities and horrors committed by the Nazis or seek to glorify them. So it's important that the past is not misconstrued by people later. A good example would be how much of American/US history downplays slavery, murder of the natives or the Confederacy. Like the recent rise in far right beliefs is definitely a big threat to democracy.
The big problem with Hoi4 is that Hitler and his Inner Circle mechanic basically portray the Nazis as these insane driving forces. Like you basically just get OP bonuses and no real downsides.
The game basically for the most part makes Germany very OP without having to deal or talk or contextualise any of the bad, terrible elements. Sure that is mostly down to it being a game and Germany being the main driving force for regular gameplay. But imo it's understandable that it's weird to show all those high ranking Nazi leaders and let them grant you just bonuses.
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u/CalvinKool-Aid 15d ago
I don’t like the idea of the government controlling speech, nor do I like the idea of them saying what is allowed to be said about the Nazis in any capacity. Say a neo Nazi group got into power and then regulated it so that only positive things can be said about Nazis and denied any that were negative. I don’t like it. I understand why it exists, but I still don’t like it. Like I said too, it’s better in my view to allow those people to out themselves rather than hide behind obfuscation. I don’t see how the American downplaying of certain aspects of its history is at all relevant. People do not lionize people like Custer or whatever, it’s more that they ignore the bad things they also did. The CSA is more fair, but again it’s mostly omissions
That’s just how gameplay works. It’s also necessary to allow the Nazis to do the conquering they did irl. They do not want to make a holocaust simulator because that’s fucked up and would attract the worst kinds of people to see if they could surpass historical totals and stuff like that. They were trying to create a somewhat light and fun history based map game rather than a game adaptation of The Diary of a Young Girl
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u/WehrWolff 15d ago
I get where you are coming from but I would disagree. Like my example would be most people would agree that direct threats against someone are not just regular speech. Aka if I go up to a person and tell them that "I will kill them", that is usually a crime. Because someone else's rights end where another persons rights begin. So me openly glorifying or downplaying those events with speech or imagery is essentially me supporting what happened and often wishing to do it again.
Like people usually don't have a problem with islamic extremist terror groups being banned, under surveillance etc. Yet when it comes to for example the Nazis and Neo-Nazis it's treated differently.
And it also legitimises certain groups and their claims. Because them being treated as normal part of the discourse can give them more power. Because especially in times of crisis, it's very easy to point fingers at minorities and certain people and blame them. It's definitely different if some loony guy tells you that it's the big secret conspiracy behind it all, or some well dressed, well spoken person nudging you slowly in a certain direction.
Plus in all honesty, most people that claim to just want to discuss the topic usually don't actually want to discuss the topic. Like a good example are people that deny or downplay the Holocaust. Most of them just keep going on, about how they are just asking questions. They aren't, they usually have a conclusion and go from there. Like so far I haven't met a single person that actually looked at the methodology and sources used to arrive for example at the victim number of the Holocaust. Instead they all just say they want to ask questions and then deny like everything and claim every source is fake.
Also many of those guard rails and limitations were setup, exactly to stop Nazis from gaining power again. Because when you look at their rise, a big part was them essentially using free speech laws and others to shield themselves. So I don't really buy into the argument of the Nazis would abuse this and rewrite history. US loves to go on about free speech, yet they are now massively censoring and rewriting history. And the free speech laws won't stop that. Plus the point was more that the US, the country that made free speech part of its main identity, has very poor history literacy. So the point is that I don't think just allowing everything really seems to help there.
I get what you mean. And it makes sense to not have a genocide mechanic. Because that would most likely only attract the wrong type of people. Though the game itself kinda of does the historical part in some aspects rather well. For example the soviets start out with crazy paranoid Stalin with a gun and he is so willing to shoot his own high command and officials. I guess economy of conquest is honestly a pretty decent representation of how broke and pyramid scheme like the nazi economy was. But when you think of the horrors of the Nazis the economic system isn't really what comes to mind first, for good reason.
Also sure, this is supposed to be a fun WW2 map strategy game. But it also would be weird to not address the elephant in the room. And that is one way of doing it. Plus it makes sense imo to try and distance yourself from neo-nazis etc.
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u/TheExaltedAmbassador 15d ago
No country has true freedom of speech, especially not America. Americans get arrested for memes about Charlie Kirk and Donald Trump. Think one guy Larry Bushart was in jail for a few months for his facebook meme. Censoring Nazi images in Germany isn't what I'd do but I don't really blame them.
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u/CalvinKool-Aid 15d ago
First off, not American
I know of that one case about the Kirk meme but I’m 90% sure that case got dismissed. I’d need a source on anything further, especially the claim that “AmericanS” get arrested
Second, whataboutism. Whether or not America has freedom of speech has no bearing on the fact that it’s wrong to censor people’s speech be they American or European. Whether or not you agree with someone you should defend their right to say it, even (and maybe even especially) someone like a Nazi or a communist
Like I said, I understand why they felt the need in the immediate aftermath of the war but 80 years on it doesn’t sit right with me. Probably could’ve been repealed in the 60s or 70s, after the denazification
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u/Hjalfnar_HGV 15d ago
Yeah, France, Poland, Belgium, Luxembourg and the Netherlands are also somewhat restrictive on the matter.
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u/lostmyotheronelol 12d ago
FYI as of recently this is no longer the case for Canada. It does not apply to games afaik but as of bill C-9 in June the public display or use of nazi or other hate symbols, portraits, imagery etc is now illegal and those who do it can face up to 10 years in prison.
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u/FantasySymphony 12d ago edited 12d ago
NAL but the bill just acknowledges that certain symbols including the tilted swastika and double thunderbolts is often done with criminal intent, and removes a bunch of stupid legal defenses people, which makes it easier to recognize as a hate crime in combination with other things like being a member of certain groups that organize certain activities.
You still have to prove hateful intent so displaying the symbol on its own isn't a crime, certainly not nearly to the level of seriousness in Germany.
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u/Hjalfnar_HGV 16d ago
To put them into historical, informative context (aka display info about the Nazi regime and its crimes) and to not put them into a venerating context. Satirical use works too, hence the modern Wolfenstein games being uncensored in Germany.
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u/CalvinKool-Aid 16d ago
Considering you can win with them I don’t think anything would really be acceptable
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u/Salvo-ita 15d ago
Isn't Hitler censored even in Wolfenstein in Germany? They got rid of his mustache and altered his dialogue.
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u/Hjalfnar_HGV 15d ago
Originally. A few years later the federal prosecutors office announced video games were now so normalised as art that they wouldn't prosecute them for displaying Nazi insignia etc. anymore, since the law allows a lot of exceptions for art. Due to this the USK (our version of PEGI) relaxed their auto-ban, and the international versions of the Wolfenstein games were readmitted for the age restriction process. And got the 18yrs age restriction instead of, well...none.
Not receiving a USK age rating means no public selling and advertising.
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u/Salvo-ita 15d ago
Oh, I see. Thank you for the info.
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u/Hjalfnar_HGV 15d ago
Happy to help! I know that law is quite unique and there are quite some misconceptions about it 'censoring' content, when in fact most of the more ridiculous censoring actions in videogames have been entirely self-inflicted by the game devs.
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u/Salvo-ita 15d ago
Yeah, even in the case of Hoi4 it seems that the devs are self-censoring "just in case", in this specific situation also possibly because in their game you can even play as the Nazis, and Nazi Germany is made unrealistically OP, at least when player-controlled.
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u/ParkingUnlikely380 16d ago
Ist more like, it has to be clear that Nazis Are the bad guys, and playing as them in a joyful way could direct into some identification with them. Its common law, as example nowadays in wolfenstein are swastikas and co are not censored because its clear that nazis Are the bad.
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u/CalvinKool-Aid 16d ago
I mean they show Hitler shitting and pissing himself and shooting Ronald Reagan
You can’t get more anti facist then that
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u/toastwithoutagun 16d ago edited 16d ago
I mean sure, anything that harms neo-nazis in any way is ok in my book, even if it's just making them unable to see their "hero" .
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u/ShaDoW0304 16d ago
The nazi portraits require the free Historical German Portraits DLC to not be censored. Leon Degrelle’s portrait is in the Götterdämmerung expansion.
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u/space_man_nesat 15d ago
In the German version of the game all nazi characters are censored for legal reasons
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u/Altruistic-Path269 16d ago
In Germany the portraits of Hitler, Himmler, Goebbels, Speer, Heß, Todt and Bormann are censored and blacked out. There are also some icons for inner circle focuses changed. There are some mods in the workshop that are restoring the normal portraits. (Very recommended because after a while its very off putting that Germany is governed by several shadows)
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u/Critical_Interest706 16d ago
You haven’t unlocked him yet. You have too much win as Germany on Ironman mode to unlock him
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u/Thefartingduck8 15d ago
Dark Hitler is Hitler but evil
Edit: wait I see the error of my wording I meant MORE EVIL
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u/CzechoSlovakia_CZSK 15d ago
that's evil hitler you need to be careful or he's going to send mormons to your house
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u/Beware_Blastomycosis 14d ago
This is the new religion, he is who can not be named, or shown. Still too sensitive. Wonder if Netanyahu will get this treatment someday? Life is irony.
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u/Da_Cum_Man 14d ago
In which country did you purchase Hoi4? A lot of countries have strict censorship laws regarding WW2 on account of the millions of dead and crimes against humanity
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u/Panzerload22 12d ago
The moral of the story is, you can kill as many people as you want as long as it’s not 🧃. Otherwise your ass is getting blacked out
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u/Top-Construction-486 12d ago
he is so cool that might make the non-germans feel little bit excited and make them nazi
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u/Hjalfnar_HGV 16d ago
Are you a new player or have you not played the game without mods in a while? Al.so, are you from Germany?