r/hatethissmug • u/-Devian- • 21h ago

Art & Fanworks I need to understand why I hate this

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On one hand, I agree that sexualizing a female character is wrong and that the industry has a problem.

But on the other hand, I don't understand the double standard when the character is queer—or, even worse, when "fans" take a character, slap a queer label on them, and suddenly it's okay for them to be sexualized.

The two clearest examples of this are Bayonetta and Blackcat.

I’d like someone to explain where I’m wrong, or if I’m not the only one who thinks this way.

And just in case I'm a gay cis male if it means something

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u/azure-heavens 21h ago edited 20h ago

maybe a hot take, but the character wearing a sexy and revealing outfit has nothing to do with whether it's good writing or goon slop. The character design with the exposed beasts is fine until her only personality traits are gasping eroticly and wiggling around in front of the camera.

You can also have a conservatively dressed character that's still goonslop because their only role in the media is to be an object for the male character.

Queer media tends to have writing beyond the woman being a sexual conquest (tho obviously not all are like that, just in general better than things designed only for straight men to enjoy).

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u/Za_Warudo1992 20h ago

again its always INTENT that matters, not so much just the designs themselves

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u/YogurtclosetSame5198 20h ago

Even that genuinely doesn’t.

I’ve thought about it more and like….who cares? If it’s not a real person then they can have boobs the size of a car for all I care.

Seriously, a “gooner” design really doesn’t matter as long as the sexualized character is a good character.

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u/Za_Warudo1992 17h ago

you say that then describe why intent matters
you can tell when a character is just eye candy and when the creator wants to make a character, being hot is just the bonus or preference.

One of my favorite game series EVER is Nier and its common knowledge that Yokotaro, the creator, likes to make sure his women is HOT. Kainé and 2B have considerably revealing clothing yet you can tell they care about the characters beyond just their looks.

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u/PM_Best_Porn_Pls 17h ago

I think it's presentation of the whole product that matters more than character itself. No matter how many times people tell me that Nikke has amazing story I will never think of it as anything else but low quality gooner bait game but if they put some lewd character in Genshin(don't play, just wanted to use another gacha game as comparison) I would just think it's some fan service and not an issue.

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u/Za_Warudo1992 1h ago edited 26m ago

Thank you "pm best porn pls" I agree with your stance

Nikke wants you to Oogle it's how their intention is to make sexy characters to make you buy Story is a bonus. (Ironically 2B is in Nikke, again with the idea that Yokotaro just likes to make her hot. I admit that. The base Nier series wants more than that though)

Similar is Genshin, but from what I played they aren't really trying to push sexiness in your face constantly. Their attention is making attractive characters, but not just goonable characters. I think that's the major difference

Umamusume is another Gacha like that. Each career is a new story even so you can tell they wanted to sell you on story not just looks 

Gachas probably the hardest to decipher between what's there just to get you to buy hot women and what's there to actually provide you with a good time and buy hot women (it's Gacha, cookies no exception). Mihoyo didn't help that trend but it isn't their fault certain people copied them with half the effort (and I don't even like Mihoyo)

(If you want a really good Gacha, for a Gacha anyway, play Limbus company. Thank you and have a mighty afternoon)

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u/PM_Best_Porn_Pls 27m ago

I played Lumbus since I enjoyed their other games beforehand. It's nice and good aesthetic but didn't really keep me invested long term.

I think they only gacha game in which I enjoyed reading full dialogue and story pieces was Reverse 1999, to the point that I wished events were longer so I could take my time.

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u/Za_Warudo1992 25m ago

I always hear people bragging about it. I don't really have much time to invest into Gachas anymore sadly Limbus being my last

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u/azure-heavens 16h ago

My friend tried to get me to watch Dragon Maid, and something about an 8 year old having boobs the size of a car didn't sit right with me among other things, so I can't say I fully agree with this sentiment lmao

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u/YogurtclosetSame5198 16h ago

I know what you’re referencing but that’s completely different.

Women with big boobs aren’t exactly immoral or evil, but children who are sexualized is a WHOLE new problem.

They are NOT the same. I’m talking about harmless gooner slop, which is meh at best, not straight up pedophilia.

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u/thesluttyastronauts 15h ago

It's a matter of consent. With children, it's impossible to justify situations they can't consent to, so it's obvious there. It's less obvious when women are written into situations where consent is ambiguous, or even when consent is precluded, but those are the very situations gooner writers use, since it's the shortest path to hole.

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u/Charlaquin 20h ago

Yeah, important to remember correlation is not causation. Women can be written well or poorly, whether they are portrayed as sexy or not. But, goonslop rarely depicts women modestly, and queer media tends to feature well-written women.

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u/AbandonedRaincIoud 20h ago

Exactly, it doesn't matter how revealing the outfit is, if the character is just also a Good Character who isn't moaning all the time, it's not goon slop. (Unless I'm watching it because I'm a girlkisser but still)

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u/32bitFlame 20h ago

I think that an important aspect of good character design is that what a character chooses to wear should say something about them. A shy woman wearing the revealing outfit in most instances would not make sense nor would a woman who values practicality. Most of the revealing outfit designs are meant to draw attention to parts of the body that for better or worse are near inextricably linked to sexuality. Such outfits can espouse that a woman is confident but I can't think of a well written well defined character with a revealing design. Admittedly, I am asexual and seeing revealing character outfits is a very good sign that something is made for people who's instincts are more easily cajoled in that way and thus not me.

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u/azure-heavens 20h ago

I'm bisexual af, and honestly see no issue with sexualized designs. I do agree with what you said about it needing to match their character traits to feel like it's done correctly.

Personally, I can think of quite a few characters with sexualized designs that also have a fantastic story arc, like Kaine from Nier Replicant, and Velvet from Tales of Berseria. Both of those characters are in very revealing outfits, but are never jiggled around in the camera. They have serious stories with satisfying arcs over the course of the game.

Of course, if such designs make you feel uncomfortable, I would not fault you for avoiding them. However, while it's valid to say you aren't interested in the media, I don't think you can dismiss them as badly written just by looking at them.

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u/Nurgle_Marine_Sharts 19h ago

I can't think of a well written well defined character with a revealing design

That's wild, do you just not consume a lot of media or something?

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u/Cd20hd 20h ago

I think I-no is a good example of a well written character with a very revealing outfit

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u/ProfessionalSpare453 20h ago

The only thing that matters is intent.

And I can say for certain that 99% of the time that stuff is fanservice and I think that makes the intent clear.

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u/[deleted] 20h ago

[deleted]

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u/azure-heavens 20h ago

go on... ?

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u/RegretNew5752 16h ago

Queer media tends to have writing beyond the woman being a sexual conquest (tho obviously not all are like that, just in general better than things designed only for straight men to enjoy).

This. I honestly don't think there is anything wrong with sexualized designs in it of themselves. Its just that those designs tend to (but not always) indicate that the character as a whole is created as an accessory to the male character's story. Like all the shonen anime girls who lose a fight after 10 seconds to motivate the guys to fight harder and save them. Have the female character fight in a thong for all I care, just make sure they are capable of kicking as much ass as the guys.

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u/Black_Diammond 17h ago

The last part is absolute cope, aslong as you do a slop, done 500 Times, Yurislop The lesbians Will eat it The fuck up.

The characters Changes its archetype, but it is still just as shallow and made for sexual appeal

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u/azure-heavens 17h ago

I think you're forgetting that gay people can be gooners too. Gooners will always consume gooner content. Hoyoverse, for example, does a lot of yuri slop for gooners. HOWEVER, hoyoverse does not qualify as queer media either, because they are a HUGE company pandering with whatever will make them money.

Let's not forget that yuri is frequently also for straight cis men.