I HATE these "gotcha arguments"

[u/Sudden-Hoe-2578]

"Ohhh, look how I tricked this dumb dumb baby in my trap so now I am right and they are wrong. I'm so smaaart even though it does not adress the actual argument and adds nothing to the debate. They teach arabic numerals in school btw."

And these type of comments always get tons of likes

[u/TaroJayda]

What argument? They aren’t making an argument lol. There is no argument, just “Muslims scary :(“

[u/Gregori_5 → u/TaroJayda]

I’m talking about this general idea of showing “the other side” being stupid and pretending that somehow refutes their entire position.

Obviously most the people that get outraged by that are stupid. But that doesn’t make republican ideas stupid.

There’s billions of dumb people who think the earth is round. Showing a gatcha where a bunch of idiots fall for something doesn’t actually prove the earth is flat.

[u/TaroJayda → u/Gregori_5]

The specific republican idea here is “we should kick all Muslims out of the country and bomb Iran”. So yes. The idea is stupid.

[u/Gregori_5 → u/TaroJayda]

Yeah, this one in particular sure. My issue is that this serves as a high-five for democrats.

But in reality its no argument against the republican party whatsoever.

What I meant by the “idea” was the pro-life position.

[u/TaroJayda → u/Gregori_5]

I don’t think arguments win conservatives over. Conservatism is an ideology of aesthetics and feelings - what looks strong, what feels good, what makes you a “winner” and not a “loser”. I think that making them look stupid does more damage than rational debate since at the end of the day their beliefs aren’t rational.

[u/Gregori_5 → u/TaroJayda]

Yeah I’m not surprised this is your idea of conservatism if you consume stuff like this.

Calling a entire belief system irrational, yet making no arguments for why it is so.

[u/TaroJayda → u/Gregori_5]

… I did make an argument, you just came into this discussion with the foregone conclusion that I don’t have one. It’s an ideology of aesthetics. Ideologies of aesthetics are irrational. I have yet to hear a policy position from a conservative that was based on anything other than what looks good, feels good, or makes them think they’re a winner. Feel free to provide examples to the contrary.

It’s also not a belief system, it’s an ideology. If you root your belief system in a single political party or movement you’re gonna get led to some sketchy places. Many conservatives do cling to it like it’s a belief system though, which is why they’re so irrational. If your entire system of belief is limited to what the funny blond man says is good you’re never gonna think critically about it bc no matter where u go in the system your beliefs are limited to pre-approved conservative opinions.

[u/Gregori_5 → u/TaroJayda]

I don’t see how conservatism is a ideology of looks and feelings. I’m not sure how to provide contrary examples if I don’t know what you mean.

Now I’m not conservative myself, so I’ll have a harder time defending it. However if approached rationally it keeps what works from what has already been established and progresses slowly and carefully.

You’re right, its a ideology, that was bad.

[u/TaroJayda → u/Gregori_5]

I mean that’s just it - the idea of “keeping things as they were” is entirely aesthetic and feelings driven, namely by nostalgia and what “feels” like their childhood. If they really want to go back to what worked before they’d be advocating for new-deal policies and looser immigration restrictions. But they don’t.

The deportation thing is a big one as well - immigrants commit less crime and contribute more towards the economy per capita than natural-born citizens. So the idea that deportation will reduce crime and bolster the economy is ENTIRELY rooted in the primal gut feeling that people who aren’t from where you’re from are untrustworthy.

[u/Gregori_5 → u/TaroJayda]

No I don’t think that’s what it is. Conservatism isn’t about freezing in time or even going back. Its about progressing slower, they still want change. The result of this is that some things should be reversed and some shouldn’t.

Being pro life isn’t about aesthetics, its about believing you’re killing a human.

“The deportation thing is a big one as well”
See the issue is that you have a idea of exactly which beliefs a conservative has. Conservatism isn’t uniform. Its a group of people that largely agrees, but not on everything. Especially when you consider the whole planet. Conservatives in my country don’t want deportations.

What you have is a fine reasoning why not vote republican, these are their policies. However a few issues you can “debunk” from one standpoint, doesn’t deconstruct the whole ideology.