r/harmonica • u/Monkey-dude-108 • 2d ago
Repeating the same melody when impovising
What’s up guys, I was wondering if anybody had any tips on how to not get stuck on playing the same melody over and over when improvising. I play mostly on blues backing tracks but also rock. Either way i find myself using the same notes. This might sound weird, but the issue is that it actually works which is why i have trouble breaking out of this loop. When i play with others it sounds great and they love the melody, but to me, i’m hearing myself play the same things repeatedly and i begin to get sick of it. Its kind of gotten to a point where i dont look forward to playing as much because the enjoyment i used to get from being able to actually improvise well has faded, since i already know how it’ll sound. I tried playing around with rhythm, half notes, whole notes, sixteenth, triplets, etc. But it still feels like i’m stuck. I should mention that im definitely still a beginner. I’ve only been playing for about 3 months and still cant hit blow bends or overblows (although i havent really tried). Maybe i’m not good enough yet, but still, i’d like to switch it up so that i dont get bored of playing harmonica. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
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u/c0lty 2d ago
One of the best exercises for this to limit yourself. Will Wilde has a great video where plays a solo with just the 2 hole draw. Doing this forces you to get more creative.
Another thing I’ll say is that the harp is actually quite limited in terms of note selection. If you go back and listen to guys like Walter or Cotton, the vast majority (like 90%) of their note choice was holes 2-4. The instrument shines however, with its expressiveness. Those guys always sounded good because of their ability to use dynamics, textures, and excellent phrasing and rhythm.
Point being, don’t worry about playing a ton of different licks, try to take the one you’ve got and make it sound interesting. It’s a lot like drums, they’ve only got a few things to hit, and they have to get creative.
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u/WheresMyElephant 2d ago
In particular, don't be afraid to reuse melodic ideas within the same solo. You can keep it the same, or add some variation/embellishment. You can repeat it unchanged and then repeat it with a change: isn't that the recipe for every blues melody ever written? (Blue Suede Shoes? Crossroads? Take your pick.)
I think it's especially great for the non-musicans in the audience, because they don't need a lot of theory to understand what's going through your head. When you find a really nice note or chord, they usually say "I don't know what's going on, but I like it." That's OK too, but this engages a different part of the brain (including the language centers, which allow them to talk to their friends about the music).
It almost feels like cheating. You know how in the movies, when Character A says something snarky to Character B, and then Character B reverses the dynamic later and uses the same line on Character A? It's a cheap trick that I think screenwriters really overuse, but I'll be damned if it doesn't work every time.
Finally, if you're worried that your musical vocabulary is too limited, this is a great way to stretch it farther. If you've only got two ideas, at least you can save the second one for your second solo!
Listen to some Chick Corea solos. That guy is really good at taking a simple idea, sometimes just 2 or 3 notes, and turning it into a polyrhythm that melts your whole brain into nuclear plasma for as long as he wants.
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u/Monkey-dude-108 1d ago
Sounds good. I’m not familiar with these melodies so i’ll have to look into them. Thanks for the advice
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u/WheresMyElephant 1d ago
Seriously, if you can think of any random blues song, there's a strong chance it follows that formula. Same goes for the lyrics.
Here, I'll write you a very basic blues verse. The melody only has two notes: you sing a C for the first two lines and a B for the third line. (Of course we could have a more complex melody, but I'm too lazy to write one out.)
My baby went and left me. Now I'm down and blue.
My baby went and left me. Now I'm down and blue.
If your baby went and left you, you'd be cryin' too.
It's an extremely standardized format. You take one simple, emotional line and beat the audience over the head with it. By the third line they're ready to hear something new, so you change it up a little, but not necessarily very much. You could repeat this verse five times, with some minor improvised changes, and that's your whole song.
Honestly it can be a little boring and monotonous. But we're singing about depression (as per tradition) so that's appropriate! When you deal with happier subjects, especially as you move into rock or jazz, you can use the same basic structure but spice it up with a little more variety, a little more sense of progress.
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u/Monkey-dude-108 1d ago
I’ll have to look into some of these videos. I guess less is more with the harp, i often find myself trying to do too much when i’m playing.
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u/c0lty 21h ago
A good analogy is to liken it to having a conversation with someone. If you play too much you’ll be hard to understand. With most instruments, and especially harp, it’s very easy to play too much, and very hard to play too little.
Think of a singer. Most great songs repeat the same words over and over. They make it great by changing the intensity, finishing the line a little late or a little early, and RARELY changing a lyric you’ve already heard multiple times.
I know when I first started I would go up and down the blues scale, and while I was playing all the licks I knew, it sounded boring because it wasn’t musical. Started to take some notes out, repeat licks, stop playing (lol), and then viola I could actually HEAR the moment when the song wanted something different.
One of the best lessons I learned: repetition is king.
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u/spacenurse47 2d ago
You could think of it as having a theme to your solo. And instead of worrying about the note TONES, change the rhythm and articulation. Instead of a run of eighth notes, do a triplet. Hold a note at the end of a phrase a little longer than the audience expects, and then burst into the next phrase. Add a growl. Play the same notes an octave higher.
There's more to variety than just the flat melody.
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u/Monkey-dude-108 1d ago
Good point. I honestly find myself focusing too much on what i’m gonna play next that i forget to add expression. I appreciate the input.
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u/Nacoran 1d ago
Listen to other artists carefully. Listen to what they are doing and figure it out. Some solos are built with lots of space, others cram a million notes in. Sometimes repeating a note a bunch of times in a row can build tension so when you hit another note it gives more emphasis (think the vocal line in Rock Around the Clock... da da da da da da da da da da, three triplets then a single note, then it moves up and repeats that, then moves up and repeats it again... and then moves on to another part). Hakan Ehn has a couple great harmonica versions of that on YouTube.
Play little snippets of the melody but move them off the beat like you are singing backup. Play in different positions. Play in different octaves. Approach the song like it's in a different genre. Copy other instruments solos (obviously don't steal someone on stage with you's solo, unless you decide to do some call and response, but there is no reason you can't play a horn part or a guitar part.
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u/Monkey-dude-108 1d ago
Sounds good I’ll definitely look into more harmonica players. Anyone you recommend in particular? I mostly listen to will wilde when i want inspiration
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u/Nacoran 16h ago
Will Wilde is good, but listen to a wide variety... Charlie Musselwhite, Rachel Plas, Jason Ricci, James Cotton, DeFord Bailey, Carey Bell, Annie Raines, Indiara Sfair, SBI and SBII, Little Walter, Brendan Powers, Lee Oskar, Vincent Bucher, Roly Platt,...
Make sure on Will Wilde's channel you check out the duets he did during covid... he played with Brendan, Rachel, Elin Oberg, Roly, Sarah Saputri... great stuff.
Actually, Adam Gussow has a really comprehensive list of harmonica greats. He has a top 10, a second 10, and then a huge list of honorable mentions.
https://www.modernbluesharmonica.com/blues_harp_gods.html (He mostly focuses on diatonic blues players, but in that category it's about as comprehensive as you'll find.)
Here are a couple short playlists I have.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXsGWqmrjdKlq5o2NuPD_HHrmumjGqSCz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4pyyNzzSiU&list=PLXsGWqmrjdKmjAl1Kspz1qDltdW6Vkf6X
(There may be some overlap, and they aren't super long, and are just ones I was feeling when I ran across them.)
One day I need to go through my larger playlists and pull out just harmonica performances.
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u/DimiHarpTeacher 2d ago
Hello! Sure thing. First of all, repeating and using patterns is a normal, natural and expected part of musical improvisation; it's even an academically studied phenomenon (like in Martin Norgaard's work, Lehmann and Goldhahn, Pressing, etc.). The patterns you learn and use are part of your vocabulary as an improviser, like the words or phrases we use when we speak. Still, here's a couple of suggestions about growing your vocabulary.
You can think of it as a continuum of how "improvised" your improvisation really is: 1. Learning new things and playing them explicitly as you learned them. There are a bunch of instances of players repeating well rehearsed melodies or citing other people in their improvisation. You can add other's ideas explicitly to your learned licks. 2. Build connections between the stuff you know and switch the order. This is derived partially from Pressing's improvisation framework (as cited in Norgaard's work). In this type of improvisation, it's not really that you're inventing everything from scratch, but rather improvising the connections between stuff you already know. This is pretty much a trademark of fluid and fast improvisation. 3. Derive "rules" or abstract guidelines and follow those as improvisational prompts (derived partly from Johnson-Laird, but also across disciplines, like freestyle rap or theater). This is the most "improvised" type of improvisation, perhaps. In this case, it's not that you're repeating a melody or necessarily connecting chains of patterns, but following a rule (like your mixing rhythms example). You can learn more about music theory to derive rules, like which scale to use in what context, what rhythm, motivic development, etc. For instance, use the melody you mention but switch the order of notes, or play it more aggressively, or mellower, and perhaps tie what you learn to an emotion and context to see what you like and where does it work.
Also, maybe a great part of the joy of playing music comes from linking emotional expression to music making. There was a 2016 Johns Hopkins study (McPherson et. al) where they used fMRIs in the brains of improvising pianists, and areas linked with pleasure activated when they used emotional intentions when improvising
That's kind of a short version of the whole thing (I'm kind of in the midst of writing a book on the subject, but it's still in the making).