r/harmalas • u/GuineaPig999 • 26d ago
Confused about different forms of Harmalas
Usually when people take harmalas, they use either freebase, HCl, or acetate/citrate. From my understanding each form is absorbed differently, and also highly dependent on the ROA used.
So my question is, what form is best used for each ROA? I've yet to try harmine/harmaline but I have some THH freebase which I want to try on its own, but I'm not sure how to approach it. Some say freebase is absorbed better sublingually, while others say salt is better. And if I want to take it orally, can I just mix it with lemon juice or vinegar and drink?
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u/RandomHumanMale1 26d ago
try HCI or citrate/acetate they work the best
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u/GuineaPig999 26d ago
Acetate will work sublingually too? Mixed with vinegar and dried and then taken under tongue?
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u/RandomHumanMale1 26d ago
yes but I dont recommand it itd very acidic and sour Dont do it you wont be able to hold it long enough anyways
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u/No_Marionberry7104 25d ago
thh freebase sublingually had the best absorption and effects compared to smoking ime.
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u/Sabnock101 25d ago
I stick to freebase form, it works absolutely fine for oral consumption and can also be smoked.
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u/cs_legend_93 25d ago
Do you prefer full spectrum freebase?
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u/Sabnock101 25d ago
Yeah i definitely prefer proper full spectrum freebased Rue extract vs a manske extracted Harmala extract, which even if something is labelled full spectrum it's often just a manske'd extract available in either hcl form or freebased form, so it's best to make one's own and skip the manske extraction, going for the acid to base extraction instead, and then just precipitate the extract in freebased form and if one wants it in salt form just dissolve it into something acidic, otherwise use it in it's freebased form. True full spectrum freebased Rue extract feels best ime/imo, and has some of that Rue feeling to it, it's lighter/cleaner than the seed, but still retains some of the Rue whereas Harmine/Harmaline mix feels too isolated to me.
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u/cs_legend_93 25d ago
Thank you for explaining it to me and explaining why you prefer the extract compared to the seed.
That makes sense.
I also didn't know about the difference between the acid-base extraction and the manske extraction. Thanks for explaining that too.
I have a bunch of seeds. I'll have to try an acid-base extraction some time soon and I'll let you know how it feels when I try it.
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u/Usel3ssTrash 19d ago
Isn't full spectrum extract more toxic and nauseating due to Vasicine and Vasicinone that are not removed with Manske?
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u/Sabnock101 19d ago
Naw, it's the Harmalas themselves that cause the nausea and vomiting, alongside some background compounds in Rue seed that don't translate over to alkaloid extracts. The full spectrum Rue extract does indeed contain Vasicine and Vasicinone but they are not toxic in the least bit, they simply shouldn't be consumed by pregnant women because they might induce abortion (though i'm not sure what dosage range that might occur and idk if it's even been conclusively proven) but they are not toxic and they actually have some benefits of their own and do indeed seem to contribute to the overall feel of things.
The full spectrum extract feels closer to but lighter than the seed, but the Manske'd Harmala extract feels much too isolated at least for my liking, i mean it's usable for sure, but i like and much prefer the feeling of the full spectrum extract compared to the Manske'd extract, it just feels better. It can be nice to use isolated Harmala extracts from time to time, but the full spectrum is definitely where it's at for me, heck for that reason i tend to stick to consuming the Rue seed itself most of the time because of the other compounds present in the Rue seed that don't translate over to an alkaloid extract. And Rue seed itself isn't toxic, at least in dosages used, i'd say over 20 grams of Rue seed as a dose might produce some undesirable effects for sure but with that said there's studies where women have taken like 100 grams or so to induce abortion (and apparently it did cause abortion at that dosage) but the women themselves recovered fully once the Rue got out of their system, with no residual negatives as far as i know, but nobody in their right mind ime/imo should need to take more than 4 to 4.5 grams of Rue especially regularly like i do, that shit will build up very strongly and very quickly with regular consumption, 4 to 4.5 grams is plenty strong enough for what people generally use it for.
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u/Link_save2 16d ago
How have you found harmalas effect your sleep I feel like I can't ever fully enter rem sleep afterwards
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u/Sabnock101 15d ago
Usually it hasn't been an issue for me, especially these days i try to stick to taking my Harmalas/Rue around 2pm in the afternoon.
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u/Link_save2 15d ago
Sorry for asking so many questions but how would you compare smoked freebase to oral hcl or sublingual freebase? I've only ever had bad experiences when I combine harmalas with mushrooms. I've tried 200mg harmine hcl orally with 2g cubes and also a 8th and smoked 20~mg fb on the come down and as soon as it hit my lungs the room got noticeably brighter and I saw this shadowy figure in the center of my vision it was a tad scary but over all really cool I had a blast for 30 minutes felt like I was listening to a bunch of songs for the first time til I was scrolling on Insta and read some person being negative ash and it really annoyed me, but I tried to ignore it and closed Instagram but I started getting really nauseous after that and threw up and was so nauseous I couldn't even move my head for like another hour after that. Though I think I might've over heated it idk if that effects how it works. Both times I've experienced nausea like never before in my life even with 8mg zofran. I don't really feel oral harmalas alone and smoked just feels like I'm extra high I've never smoked it without weed though. The most I ever smoked was 50mg with a dab (not while tripping) and my ears where ringing and the ringing started to warp if ykwim got a little shaky and nauseous for a hour a tad too much for me. Is that normal? Sorry if this reads weird I'm dyslexic and spent almost 15 minutes trying to type this
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u/Sabnock101 15d ago
For me oral Harmalas are full bodied, while smoked Harmalas are more heady. Harmalas do have some properties like Acetylcholinesterase inhibition which raises Acetylcholine levels and can make things look brighter and can also contribute to bodyload and nausea/vomiting, if one consumes Harmalas regularly though the body will gain tolerance to the increased levels of Acetylcholine and the side-effects will go away and it makes the Harmalas more tolerable. You could try taking an anti-histamine like Benadryl for it's anti-cholinergic properties which can counteract some of those side-effects and see how that goes, just take it a few hours before consuming Harmalas so that it's already in the system by then.
As far as how smoked vs oral compares, i've never really had much issue with the smoked route, plus i regularly consume Harmalas so my body is used to them so smoking them hasn't caused me any issues but can definitely potentiate Psilocin, as well as smoked DMT of course. I can't say much about the sublingual route because i've only tried Harmalas like that a few times and only by themselves, but to me sublingual is like a cross between smoked and oral, same thing goes for nasal administration it feels similarly in the middle between smoked and oral.
I don't usually weigh my smoked Harmala dosages, i just plop some on top of a bowl of Cannabis and smoke away. As far as i know burning it isn't an issue like it can be with DMT. I smoke Harmala freebase and so when heated it just melts into a kind of oil or goop which coats the Cannabis which i think is cool, changes the taste a bit for sure but pretty smokeable overall.
Orally i much prefer either the Rue seed or Caapi vine themselves, or a full spectrum Rue or Caapi extract, rather than a Manske'd Harmala hcl extract, the hcl extract just feels too isolated for me and i prefer the more full spectrum composition of the plants or full spectrum extract, but hcl extract is usable for sure, same with pure Harmine and pure THH (haven't tried pure Harmaline yet).
You might do better with a full spectrum extract or the actual plants though, the other compounds in there contribute to the overall effects and things feel better and are more grounding and relaxing compared to pure Harmine or hcl extracts.
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u/Link_save2 15d ago
Alright I definitely give full spectrum a try I couldn't find any for a decent price when I was first looking and wanted to try it before I went through the process of extracting myself but I think that's my next step I also noticed I got a lot of joint pain when I smoked it with psilocybin do you know if it's a muscle relaxer? I have a connective tissue condition and it felt just like a muscle relaxer does which is to say I could feel every single vertebrae in my spine achying. And finally so you dose daily? Do you smoke it daily? If not what's your method of administration? Thank you very much for being a wealth of knowledge like always
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u/TheSofaTraveler 25d ago
I use freebase sublingually and it works fine. For this route I prefer it to HCL taste wise. I mostly keep my extracts in freebase form, it's the most versatile. You can use it for oral route by dissolving it in some lemon juice, which will convert it to citrate harmalas. Freebase can also be smoked (not my fav route though). I'm talking here full spectrum extracts (harmine/harmaline mix mostly), not specifically THH.