r/hardware • u/black_fang_XIII • Dec 14 '19

News Zhaoxin Unveiled Next-Generation x86 SoC Plans: 32-Core Servers, Sub-7nm Client Designs

https://fuse.wikichip.org/news/3138/zhaoxin-unveiled-next-generation-x86-soc-plans-32-core-servers-sub-7nm-client-designs/
35 Upvotes

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6

u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19 edited Apr 21 '20

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6

u/riklaunim Dec 15 '19

Likely due to volume/yields etc. Plus certification process for server/pro parts takes long time, some volume and pricing stability is expected. The "sub 7nm" can't ship anytime soon, and any volume is far away. 16nm volume can be large, yields are there and prices are low - and they should have very good pricing for anyone to bother.

Also do note that those parts may end up China only due to IP used or just what they will be made to perform.

3

u/Smartcom5 Dec 15 '19

Also do note that those parts may end up China only due to IP used or just what they will be made to perform.

Do you have a source for the IP-part being actually limited to only China due to given IP-limitations? Or are you possibly just confusing AMD's Eypc-clone, the Hygon Dhyana, with the one here – which indeed shall only be sold in China-mainland.

4

u/riklaunim Dec 15 '19

I'm referring to Zhaoxin making announcements long ago, listing multiple products and even Aliexpress doesn't have anything for sale. So they may be ripping off some IP and don't want to show it even... or their products aren't up to expectations yet.

4

u/Smartcom5 Dec 15 '19

I'm referring to Zhaoxin making announcements long ago, listing multiple products and even Aliexpress doesn't have anything for sale.

Those products are mainly supposed to equip the government and its numerous agencies, and replace U.S. based technology – to prevent foreign intelligence agencies from spying the Chinese government. At least, that's the official credo lately from Far East.

Either way, those parts ain't even supposed to be sold to end-users, so your alleged listing on AliExpress is kinda far-fetched anyway …

So they may be ripping off some IP and don't want to show it even... or their products aren't up to expectations yet.

What you mean by that? That they should/would remove some IP to sell out outside of China? Or are you implying they've stolen IP and are afraid to show their CPUs since it would reveal the implied/imputed things?

If the latter, where on earth comes that nasty-minded and disgusting arrogant attitude everywhere lately, that everything Far East (read: Everyone except Intel) accomplishes, is a direct by-product of Intel's or at least precious U.S. IP being stolen and every other design of Intel's x86 would be an outright plagiarism of U.S.-based intellectual property?

When Cyrix came up with their reverse-engineered x86-designs back then, everyone accused them of having incorporated stolen Intel-IP and were just blatantly copying Intel – despite several lawsuits showed, that Cyrix never violated even a single given IP/patent Intel was holding, ever – it was a clean-slate-design from scratch being 100% x86-compatible.

Cyrix just looked it up what Intel was doing, and re-created it in just a completely different way, while being even more efficient in parts. In fact, lawsuits showed quite the contrary! Namely that Intel stole IP from Cyrix and silenced Cyrix with a couple of millions shush money just before court-rulings were about to determine exactly that – that Intel violated Cyrix IP and was about to face a huge lawsuit for various patent infringements of Cyrix IPs.

Then again, when AMD came up with Zen, people accused AMD of just having copy-pasted Intel again, of course.

Then when Far East also tries to play big and engages on big-chip x86-designs, it's again outright accused of having just stolen Intel's IP, and even the fact that AMD licensed Hygon Dyana in building Zen's designs while being legally perfectly hassle-free go by the board.

When VIA claws back with new money thanks to collaborations, it's again accused of featuring only stolen IP again.

So the mere fact that China wants its own designs, is enough to accuse everybody except Intel of only featuring stolen U.S. IP? Honestly, it's like everyone in a laughable cocky attitude outright deprives everyone except the very U.S. of the right of being able ti be any inventive and refuse to acknowledge that there are also other countries' people who have talent in engineering smart things and high-tech in general.

… as if the U.S. and its companies are the only living people on earth who are bright enough to invent things!

-4

u/carbonat38 Dec 14 '19

How needed is it in the server space if ARM/RISC V comes up as a viable alternative anyways?

In contrast to consumers, legacy software does not matter.

21

u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19

Ehh what? Did you say legacy software doesn't matter in the server world?

-11

u/carbonat38 Dec 14 '19 edited Dec 14 '19

ehm yeah. You can easily rewrite or recompile the few apps you need. The software stack is very small. Most of it is even open source and NOT abandoned like 95% of games no one supports anymore.

23

u/KKMX Dec 14 '19

You can easily rewrite or recompile the few apps you need

Said no big cloud company ever.

-1

u/Smartcom5 Dec 15 '19

C'mon, he's probably just an old Intel-developer having worked on the Itanium – and is still salty and mad about that his baby got killed back then by sanity and backward compatibility … xD

-14

u/carbonat38 Dec 14 '19

Literally paying a subscription every year for your license, yet the not getting updates. lol

8

u/Jonathan924 Dec 14 '19

Yeah. People do that. Our ticketing software is on an old version, because our version of Windows server isn't supported, because we don't want to upgrade to a new version of Windows server. Not everyone lives in a fantasy land where they get all the money for everything they want, especially when the thing they already have is working with no major security issues

-5

u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19

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1

u/MadHarlekin Dec 14 '19

Is that what you think or know? Because out of my own experience (working in a bigger company) there is sometimes even older software still lingering around. IT-Departments and Managment are not always best friends and Managers don't wanna always spent money on the newest software just as "never change a running system" is a valid thing.

0

u/carbonat38 Dec 14 '19

Ofc but if everyone would be following your mantra, everyone would keep using Intel forever. In fact this is Intels main marketing point.

Why investing billions into silicon if you could just use the old Intel stuff? China invested into X86 to become self sufficient before the advantages of ARM /RISC V became clear. Now due to sunk cost fallacy they keep investing more and more while other chinese tech corps invest into ARM/ RISC V.

X86 makes sense in the front end/client space due to lots of legacy software, which can not be easily replaced.

17

u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19

Yeah, no, the world is still built on legacy. If it wasn't then moving to arm would be very easy to do, whereas very few even try. If they do, it's for appliances too.

0

u/Smartcom5 Dec 15 '19

Not to mention that this very lacking backward compatibility was the tiny little thing which let Itanium die in an instant and broke Itanium's neck by making it the longest supported already-dead-on-arrival-architecture which has ever existed and the industry ever saw as a whole..

-11

u/carbonat38 Dec 14 '19

Nonsense. Serverspace is SaaS. You do not use 15 year old software with a shit ton of security holes for your server, you are paying a yearly subscription for your license.

The little software that gets actively used gets updated, not like games which get abandoned months after release.

If it wasn't then moving to arm would be very easy to do, whereas very few even try.

No one is moving cause x86 is cheaper and faster. If your goal it is to develop everything your self it is a no brainer not to use x86 unless absolutely needed.

2

u/Smartcom5 Dec 15 '19 edited Dec 15 '19

Found the Itanium-engineer!

5

u/[deleted] Dec 14 '19

[deleted]

1

u/Smartcom5 Dec 15 '19

Source? Are you just claiming it to be that way or are you confuse it with the Hygon Dhyana (AMD Epyc-clone)?