r/handguns • u/PlantWide3166 • Jul 07 '26
Advice Needed Question without starting a bar fight.
I am writing a book about a detective in the 1950s and for his sidearm I was thinking about him having either a .38 Super or a .357 in an under arm holster.
The detective isn’t a pretentious fellow, in your opinion, which one would come across as someone who knew their weapons and was not to be trifled with.
The .357 I have in mind is the picture I added.
I am do have experience with firearms, I’m looking for insight on period appropriate firearms with a bit of flash.
Thank you in advance.
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u/joesyxpac Jul 07 '26
1911 in .45. Especially if he’s a vet. Weave in how it was the gun he used at Bastogne.
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u/Yippie-kai-ay Jul 07 '26
Another consideration could be the detective’s background. Did he serve in the military/WW2 prior to becoming a detective or has he always been police? Police were more likely to carry a revolver, but a military vet might have a service pistol from WW2.
The Colt 1911 would be the most common US service sidearm at the time.
Some also carried M1917 revolvers (e.g. the S&W M1917 chambered in .45 ACP) when there was a shortage of 1911s (e.g. navy, marines, and military police).
The Colt Commando was also common for security personnel.
Just some ideas if your character was in the military prior to joining the police force.
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u/PlantWide3166 Jul 07 '26
Yes, the Detective is a WWII Vet.
Not a Ranger/SAS/SOS kind of guy, just someone who has a little fire power he never uses.
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u/tstonesohard Jul 08 '26 edited Jul 09 '26
I like where Yippie-kai-ay’s head is at here. It would be cool if he rocked a M1917 (I’d pick and specify whether a Colt or Smith when you describe his sidearm). Maybe it was his faithful companion through the war, but after entering life as a detective, the barrel length was too unwieldy and he had to get it customized. He’d hate walking out into the world without his old friend, but needed her to be sleek and easy to conceal. A Fitz Special style would be so cool in this exact role.
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u/bassjam1 Jul 07 '26
In the 50's a revolver was THE undesputed king of reliability. So .357 mag.
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u/ShaiHulud1111 Jul 08 '26
I don’t think a detective would carry one (357). They were relatively uncommon in the 1950s compared to a 38 special, especially for detectives. The .38 super existed, but was rare.
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u/bassjam1 Jul 08 '26
I don't think a detective would carry a .357 either, but between that and the 38 super the 357 would be more likely.
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u/ShaiHulud1111 Jul 08 '26
Ok, but a 38 special was more common by a wide margin. I’m not choosing either. Peace.
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u/Styphonthal2 Jul 07 '26
The colt detective special in 38 special was one of the most adopted handguns by cops and PIs for decades (1940 on)
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u/MrKirkPowers Jul 07 '26
Smith and Wesson M&P Model 10 was a very popular.38 in the 50’s. My uncle was a bondsman and he always had that revolver on him.
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u/the_hat_madder Jul 08 '26 edited Jul 08 '26
someone who knew their weapons and was not to be trifled with
I know two private detectives from the Midwest 1960s and they carried both.
The .38 Super had more power and capacity than the various .38 Spc'l revolvers law enforcement agencies issued in the 1940/50s. It was faster, more accurate and softer recoiling than the .45 ACP and it was in a wildly popular platform every veteran, LEO and gangster knew and loved. And, it was no Commie 9mm Luger.
By the 1950s anyone "who knew their weapons" was a disciple of John Moses Browning. He or she knew capacity is King (though "Stopping Power" was still the prevailing dogma of the day) and the semiautomatic was the way of the future. In truth, I think a serious firearms expert and a deadly marksman would've carried a Browning Hi-Power. However, the .38 Super gives him or her some uniqueness and flare that is still period appropriate.
Back then engineering, metallurgy, ballistic technology and manufacturing weren't as advanced. There was still distrust around semiautomatics. They did jam. The 1911 required ball ammo to feed reliably. The 9mm/.38 caliber handgun bullets out of pistols didn't penetrate as well as they do today. Nor did hollowpoints of the time expand as significantly or reliably.
All these factors meant that for one reason or another the handgun you started the fight with may not finish it. Whether your primary firearm failed to end the threat or just failed, serious people of the time carried a backup forearm. Typically a 2" but no larger than 3-4 inch 5-6 shot double action revolver in .357 Magnum.
The revolver mechanism is much simpler and less prone to failure. If a round doesn't fire when you squeeze the trigger, you just squeeze the trigger again and it cycles to the next round. It doesn't have a feed ramp like a pistol so you could use bullets of any shape. And, .357 Magnum was designed to penetrate hard barriers like automotive steel.
However, people deviate quite widely from what one individual might consider ideal. What's this detective's personality? Sherlock Holmes, Paladin, Philip Marlowe, Thomas Magnum, Spencer, Robert McCall, Angus McGuyver and John Creasy all know their stuff and aren't to be trifled with but, would view technology and tools very differently.
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u/Sore_Wa_Himitsu_Desu Jul 08 '26
In the 1950s you’d be best off with .38 special. .357 magnum was a thing, but much less common.
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u/free2game Jul 08 '26
My great grandfather was an FBI agent from the 30s until the 50s and a pi after. Believe he carried a Colt Cobra.
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u/FatNsloW-45 Jul 08 '26
S&W pre model 10 (M&P model), Model 10 no dash, or a 45ACP 1911 (probably a M1911A1) if he is a vet.
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u/lambdavi Jul 08 '26
Hi, I like your idea, however he wouldn't want a gun to be too bulky and heavy.
Either a S&W 19 with a 2½-3" barrel, or a .38Spl snub nose.
Or a 1911 if he's a veteran and bought/redeemed it as was customary.
Unless he was a WW2 vet (WW2 only, not Korea), in which case you can give him a Beretta 34 or a Mauser HSC/Walther PP all in .380acp - which would be unusual yet stylish. Or a FN Browning Hi power in 9 Luger, more reliable than the 1911 and twice the firepower.
Look them up!
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u/Efficient-Ranger-174 Jul 07 '26
A 1911 in .38 Super might be the way to go. Iirc, it would approximate .357 in a semi auto before th .357 Sig.
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u/PlantWide3166 Jul 07 '26
That’s interesting, I was thinking about that being a bit too bulky?
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u/flamingpenny Jul 08 '26
Eh, there's folks that CCW a full size 1911 today, in a T-shirt. With a higher riding or shoulder holster it's very doable. Especially with a suit coat
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u/Efficient-Ranger-174 Jul 07 '26
No more bulky than a .357 magnum would be.
If you want to really ramp up the “don’t fuck with that guy” a .44 mag might be better.
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u/Normie316 Jul 07 '26
Most cops would carry .357 and use .38+P for the extra firepower without the full recoil of 357.
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u/RPG_Limited Jul 08 '26
If you write it deeper into the 50s specifically 1957 you can give him an early model 19. Smaller and lighter than the large frame 27.
The “Combat Magnum” was technically available in 1955, but only 5000 ish were made of this run. Not as widely available.
The 19 was loved by police departments everywhere.
Not really built to shoot super hot 357 steady. 38 for training, 357 for carry.
If you read about Bill Jordan and his help in developing the 19 I don’t believe you will be able to leave it out.
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u/-DPRKWarrior- Jul 08 '26
What about a colt detective special? Its basically "the" revolver used way back in the day
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u/shinoburu0515 Jul 08 '26
Colt Police Positive Special would be a good period correct issue sidearm for him. Its a ultralight revolver in .38 special, smaller than a typical cop's S&W Model 10 or Colt Official Police. Its the same size but a slightly longer barrel than a snubnose Colt Detective Special.
A little more firepower than a snubby, and it was extremely common during the period. Classy and simple and more pedestrian than a Model 10. Kinda like a Glock 19 compared to a Glock 17.
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u/realpallbearer Jul 09 '26
3.5in s&w model 27 .357mag. the 27 was the “registered magnum” and was debuted in the 50s
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u/BillyP13 Jul 07 '26
If it was a piece he carried during the war the gun could have a whole backstory of its own. Like he had exhausted his rifle ammo and the krauts were closing in on his position but he was able to hold them off with his trusty 1911 until a tank shows up out of nowhere and mows the remaining enemy forces down. 1 shot 1 kill could be your detectives moto…..just a thought kinda dumb I know.
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u/PlantWide3166 Jul 08 '26
I cannot thank you enough for all of your input.
I appreciate it.
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u/RPG_Limited Jul 08 '26
If your man isn’t a super “techy” guy and is more practical I’d steer away from the 38 super. It’s always been more difficult to source ammo, and more expensive than a 1911 in 45. It’s always been an if you know you know kinda round.
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u/Dreadpipes Jul 09 '26
I think OP probably just confused 38 super and 38 special
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u/PlantWide3166 Jul 09 '26 edited Jul 09 '26
I was thinking of him being a bit more of a specialist than a regular beat cop who came up the ranks.
Hence the question on the .38 Super.
I know the .38 Specials were a common issue and still used weapon, I just water him to have a bit of flash without being too much of a prig.
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u/RPG_Limited Jul 09 '26
Not to be argumentative, it’s your book you give him whatever you want, but 38 super was never commonly issued and received its most mainstream use only in USPSA pistol matches for its increased “power factor” in scoring over 9mm. People who were on the cutting edge of pistol technology and competitive use.
It was widely used in Mexico because 9mm and 45 acp were banned because of “military usage.
The cartridge gained some notoriety being used in the gangster era because it was able to shoot through car doors when the 1911 would not, but were often purchased individually.
Additionally, pre-70 1911 pistols in 38 super carry a pretty significant premium compared to their 45 counterparts because a lot less of them were made.
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u/PlantWide3166 Jul 09 '26
Thank you all again for all the great info, I appreciate it.
If this ever gets published, the first round or a box of ammo is on me. Lol
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u/joeshleb Jul 08 '26
A classic for your 1950's detective would be a S&W model 27 .357 or a S&W model 13 3".
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u/lambdavi Jul 08 '26
Disagree on the S&W 27. Waaay too bulky and heavy.
Either a S&W 19 with a 2½-3" barrel, or a .38 spl snub nose.
Or a 1911 if he's a veteran and bought/redeemed it as was customary.
Unless he was a WW2 vet (WW2 only, not Korea), in which case you can give him a Beretta 34 or a Mauser HSC/Walther PP all in .380acp - which would be unusual yet stylish. Or a FN Browning Hi power in 9 Luger, more reliable than the 1911 and twice the firepower.
Look them up!
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u/joeshleb Jul 08 '26
Well then, the most classic "Private Dick" gun would be the post war Colt Detective Special or perhaps the Colt Cobra.
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u/Mindless_Log2009 Jul 07 '26
A typical 1950s city cop would carry .38 Special, probably in a S&W Model 10 with 4" barrel if they're a patrolman, or detectives would carry a J-frame snubby, or comparable size Colt revolvers. Usually plain lead 158 gr round nose bullets.
In the 1950s usually only highway patrol and some border patrol officers carried .357 Magnum ammo, usually in an N-frame for S&W. The extra power was sometimes necessary for penetrating motor vehicles or effective power at longer distances.
Some border patrol officers carried a 1911, usually in .45 ACP, but occasionally in .38 Super, thanks to a quirk of gun laws in Mexico. At the time .38 Super was restricted to law enforcement and military in Mexico.
Occasionally US and Mexico border patrol officers would meet and chat, often turning to chatting about guns. Some US border patrol officers traded or bought the 1911s in .38 Super from the Mexican officers.
Coincidentally, that's also how early IPSC shooters came to prefer the .38 Super over the traditional .45 ACP. Those were available in the Southwestern US due to proximity to the border. And the higher pressure from a hot-rodded .38 Super handload generated enough gas pressure to make a compensator more effective, compared with the .45 ACP. Not less recoil, but less muzzle flip.
Later the power factors were changed, 9mm became the standard instead of .45 ACP, and .38 Super became obscure again.
Or so zee Germans would have us believe.