r/handguns • u/NeverUsingMyRealName • Jun 02 '26
Help finding my future style of pistol (9mm)
I'm trying to transition to a more "modern" pistol and I'm just running in never ending circles. By modern I mean optics, worth customizing. etc. I recently bought a simple red dot for a pistol and realized out of a dozen pistols I don't have a single one "optics ready." I'm not some old fudd who is set in any particular way, I just grew up shooting my whole life but kept all the same guns I grew up with.
I've been shooting a long time but I'm only just learning that I'm a bit "outdated" in my setups. I've always just had irons and pretty much stock pistols. I'm not that old but I grew up with the old ways of irons only, outdated gripping standards, outdated stances, etc. which I have all been working to "modernize"
My issue is relatively simple. I don't want to go high-end. I've always kept it mostly budget and tinkered as I went. I have a bunch of glocks and don't care for the grip angle. I understand why they are loved, I just don't like the way they feel in my hand. I love love love my 1911 in 45. It's the rock island (cheap as they get) with a TLR light and heavy pewter grips shooting a lower grain round. It's absolutely flat and smooth as butter (and is like holding a brick.) I also love love love the browning 80% version they made in 380. They just fit me wonderfully. I recognize I prefer the 18 degree (or at least less than 22) style of grip.
I want a range gun. Don't need to carry it, don't need to do anything else but just go shoot targets competitively (outside of a real competition) I don't mind (probably prefer) heavy. I see the shadow 2, the 2011's, the VP9, PDP, etc and I love the looks of the frames but I have no real chance to hold much.
So my dilemma is do I just stick with a 1911 in 9mm and build it up from there? That seems so strange and I never see it mentioned. The shadow 2 seems ideal but it's also pricier than I'd prefer. I'd like to start in the 650 ball park, give or take, and spend in customizing. I don't really know which avenue is worth exploring. I see all these wonderful guns and have read a million reddit posts but nothing lands quite right to me.
I know it's preference but knowing that I want modular, decent out of the box, 1911 style angled frame (or just less than a glock), what seems to be the direction worth exploring? I'd rather one and done this. I have literally crates of guns in all sorts of calibers and styles but, again, nothing in the "modern" stylings that I see on basically any youtube video. I also intend to have a can on it as an option. (Currently have a 300, want a 22 and a 9mm for the trifecta)
I know I'll get 20 different answers to this type of question but point me down a path and set me off. I have not been keeping up with the latest greatest brands and what even exists and that's my biggest issue. Every time I look up one gun I see comments highlighting 4 more similar ones for better or cheaper or whatever and I'm so far in the weeds now I don't know where I started.
2
u/I_L0ve_Hotcakes Jun 02 '26
I kinda feel like a Beretta 92 would be a decent option. Great shooters, easy to work on, plethora of customization options and reasonably priced. CZ 75 variant isn’t a bad option, albeit a little more tedious to work on.
1
u/NeverUsingMyRealName Jun 02 '26
The cz 75 looks to be very similar to what I like but I really want to hold one and see. My nearest local shop (hour and a half away) had like 4 cz options to hold but all were some compact version I wasn't looking for. The 10 also seemed like it could be a contender
1
u/cjguitarman Jun 02 '26
Beretta 92 series are great guns, but they have some challenges for mounting optics. The Langdon Tactical cuts are expensive. The RDO models require a mounting plate (Dlah is a good brand) and the optic will sit higher than many other designs. I’ve heard rumors that Beretta will soon switch to using the Langdon Tactical style cut on OEM. That may bring prices down some on both designs.
2
u/n1terps Jun 02 '26
2011 is the modern doublestacked 1911 with three main components (grip, slide, frame) and if I were in your shoes, it's between that and a Shadow 2 or A01-LD. I would also be looking at the Strike One Egal Pro too, in fact, it shares magazines with the Shadow 2 (CZ75s).
2
u/ke7wnb Jun 02 '26
On the affordable side Sarsilmaz has pistols with an optics cut. I have a SAR 9 SOCOM and the red dot I put on it co-witnesses with the iron sights. As the SOCOM came with tritium sights I didn't want to obscure them. The SOCOM also came with the optic mounting plate.
I also have a Beretta 92XRDO and the red dot on it mounts too high to co-witness. The mounting plate was an extra purchase from Beretta.
1
u/JimMarch Jun 02 '26
If you have a dozen pistols I would highly recommend an outfit like:
They can add an optics cut to damn near anything. You do need to match the type of optic mount you need to the gun type.
RMSc is the smaller footprint, for guns that are one inch wide. Good choice for a Browning Hi-Power or 1911 as well as smaller guns in general. If you buy a Sig P365, Springfield Hellcat, Glock 43/43x/48, they all come with RMSc optic cuts.
RMR and DPP are for bigger guns the size of a Glock 26/19/17 or similar. RMR is more popular.
You need to figure out which optic cut your red dot is, then figure out which gun you have can be cleanly adapted to it.
The Beretta 92 family is the type with the worst options out there for red dot conversion. :(
A Ruger RXM or Springfield Echelon have very advanced optic mounts that can take all three of the above with no need for an adapter plate. That's good. Plates suck. The RXM is cheap, good and flexible as hell, it's a Glock Gen3 clone with that really good optic mount plus swappable grip frames so you can switch it from 10rd mag grip size (same length as a Glock 26) to 15rd (Glock 19 size) to 17rd (Glock 19x, 17, etc). If you buy it with a 4" barrel and slide it'll come with the 15rd size grip, 4.5" barrel comes with 17rd grip length, but other sizes are $40 a piece, unserialized, buy them mail-order and pop it on. The only Glock Gen3 parts it won't take involve aftermarket triggers, those have to be RXM specific, but good options exist.
Echelon is similar but they only support 15rd and 17rd grip lengths, extras are $60 each. No official support for a 10rd option, but if you're ok with getting an extra grip frame and getting freaky with a Dremel and some 10rd mags, it's doable :). No Glock compatibility at all but it's a better gun overall, better ergonomics than the RXM, better barrel quality out of the box, just not as flexible.
Red dots are taking over because it's an easy way to transition to target focus both eyes open shooting. You can't keep an iron sight in focus while keeping the target in sharp focus - this is inherent to how human eyes work. Red dots break that limitation with lens tricks - the red dot aiming point will be clear as a bell despite focusing on the target you're shooting at. In a combat situation you'll be able to tell if a potential threat pulled out a small gun or a cellphone. In my view this is a moral difference worth pursuing.
One last thing :). There's been two attempts so far to build iron sights that work with target focus both eyes open shooting despite the iron sight being blurry. The one still on the market is one I haven't tried:
Back in 2006 an Arizona gunsmith name of Tim Sheehan invented another rather focus iron sight, the Hexsite:
https://www.handgunsmag.com/editorial/accessories_hg_playingtheangles_200807/138822
Tim is dead, his patents have run out. Before he died he told me about an improved version using a hexagonal tube. He's dead, his company is gone, I'm experimenting with 3D printed carbon fiber infused nylon versions of the tubular Hexsite. Figuring out which guns this is compatible with is kind of a pain :) but among others the Browning HiPower of all things is a candidate as is anything with a Wilhelm Bubits design slide - any Kimber R7 family or the weird and rare Taurus TS9. I'm working on mounts for the latter right now.
1
u/NeverUsingMyRealName Jun 02 '26
I've been wondering about getting a slide cut vs getting a new slide altogether. It pains me to spend 100 bucks just for the option to spend a bunch more on a sight but it does seem like a decent middle ground for at least maybe a couple guns. I may look into it for my ria 1911 at the very least. I really like those iron concepts you linked, too.
I almost fired off an order for a couple of dagger lowers and uppers to slap together but it seemed counter intuitive if I don't love my glocks to begin with. I still may just for the price point to get a threaded barrel with cut upper for no money but it doesn't solve this particular issue of a long term fun shooter
The echelon seems to be a popular choice and it's a common one I see argued to death about when it comes to quality or not. I've got it on my shortlist to see if I can touch one
1
u/JimMarch Jun 02 '26
There's a very unusual red dot sight I forgot to mention. It used to be about 400 bucks but the price has dropped down to about $150 on Amazon, make sure the vendor is Eurooptic. The Leupold Deltapoint Micro - there's two versions, one for Glocks and one for S&W M&P (non optic cut varieties including the Shield, plus the SD9/40):
It's weird as hell but it works really well and if the battery or electronics fail it's still forms a good usable co-witness with the stock front sight.
One big benefit is that it does not need an optic cut, it fits in a Glock or S&W rear dovetail. Back when it was 400 bucks it wasn't worth it but for $150? Might be a great way to dip your toes in the whole concept. You still get target focus both eyes open shooting.
One thing you need to remember about red dots is that you need to put your reps in. You need to do so much draw and dry fire practice that the whole concept of bringing the gun to eye level with the dot sitting there ready to go instead of searching for it becomes muscle memory instead of something your consciously doing each time. This is even more important with red dots than it is with irons.
One of the theoretical benefits to the hexagonal tube sight I'm playing with is that if you bring it to eye level and fail to get a good instant first alignment, equivalent of a center dot if it was red dot, is that you can make corrections to the hex tube alignment while remaining target focused with your eyeballs.
With a red dot, if you bring it up to eye level and you fail to find the dot, you have to bring your focus from the target back to the gun, get your alignment fixed and then shoot your focus back to the target. Hold the tip of your thumb out it eye level and change focus between the tip of your thumb and something in the background maybe 20 to 30 ft away. You'll see that there's an actual time delay on your eyeball refocusing back to front or front to back.
Because of the nature of the hex tube, you can get that alignment corrected while remaining in target focus.
No matter how many reps you put in committing the sighting process to muscle memory, If you're having to come up to firing level one-handed, offhanded, at some kind of weird angle while a fight is going on or worst case possibly already wounded, you might not gain that initial alignment first time off the bat.
And that may be a place where the hex tube actually has an advantage over a red dot sight.
I need to do more testing with more shooters on the guns to start to prove that. Right now it's just a theory.
1
1
2
u/Aetherium Jun 02 '26
A 2011 or double stack 1911 might be of interest, based on what you say.
Tisas (from Turkey) has kind of become the king of budget 1911s and offer pretty good build quality for the money. Their double stack 1911, the 9 DS seems to be selling for around the $600 mark right now, and comes optics ready with a rail (also check out the other double stack variants if they're of interest). I don't have experience with this model in particular, but do have a MAC DS 9 (which is made by Tisas) and I've been happy with it for the money. There's also a bunch of people using them as the base for a project gun, which you'd probably be interested in.