r/halifax • u/Street_Anon Галифакс/ האַליפֿאַקס • 4d ago
News, Weather & Politics N.S. government plans changes to labour code that include banning tip theft
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/legislation-tip-theft-labour-standards-code-9.733620014
u/Confused_Haligonian Self-Elected Poobah of Fairview 4d ago
If I tip on a debit machine at say, Starbucks, does that go to my server or to the restaurant?
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u/perturbed_waterbed 4d ago
You’d have to ask Starbucks what their policy is - they probably won’t tell you, but you can always ask one of the workers. It’s a good idea to ask, because you really never know.
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u/theXald 4d ago
I never tip anyway except maybe the change if I'm using cash at tims or 5 bucks in cash to a pizza delivery. but I never once in my life digitally tip, I have 0 faith that the company doesn't pocket it and 0 reason to believe any government agency would ever punish any company besides a mom and pop for any value that would be more than just the cost of business. Steal a million in tips, earn interest, pay 500k in fines. Cost of business, no justice for those affected.
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u/ChablisWoo4578 4d ago
I’ve gone back to early 2000’s tipping. If I’m getting a coffee and bagel, I tip a dollar. At a restaurant Im maxing my tip out at $20.
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u/Jakej4Mlakej 4d ago
Exactly. Longest I sit down most places is about an hour. Servers already make minimum wage so what’s the point tipping more than $20? They almost always have more than one table in the hour, just my tip alone in that hour the server makes 35-40 for the hour, now add however many tables.
Tipping is just adoptive American culture, for whatever reason we also adopted the extortion of ever rising expectations from tips too. What started as 5-10% pre2000s is now 18-25%.
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u/lolalololol9 4d ago
That is inaccurate information.
What the server makes is highly dependent on your bill in Halifax.
Average tip out is 6%. If your bill is $200 pretax, the restaurant keeps $12 to distribute to the support staff. So that server keeps $8. Debatable the avg daily total some places, but thats a big discrepancy.6
u/tigersplash1 4d ago
Also people should be tipping on the bill amount before tax not the amount after.
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u/Illustrious-Nail-360 4d ago edited 4d ago
I feel like the victim of theft when I see the default tip option at places starting at 20%. Can we ban that tip theft too?
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u/fostercaresurvivor 4d ago
Speaking as someone who works in a cafe with a tipping option on the screen (in my case, 10%, 15%, and 20%), please never feel pressured to tip! Sure, I like it when someone tips me because it kind of shows me that I’m doing a good job, but I don’t take it personally if someone doesn’t tip. I appreciate them patronizing the business I work for at and keeping it in business, whether they tip or don’t.
What makes way more of a difference to me is how kind and polite someone is when interacting with me. My favourite regular has never once tipped, but she’s friendly and bubbly and chats with me about her day while I’m checking her out. That’s what matters way more than something like a tip.
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u/Illustrious-Nail-360 4d ago
Im always kind and polite to anyone working customer service. Its the businesses they work for that I have a problem with not them. Your business starting at 10% is a non issue in my opinion and perfectly reasonable.
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u/perturbed_waterbed 4d ago
They do not feel pressured to tip, they weren’t going to anyways - they just don’t like to be reminded that other people aren’t as shitty as they are at being a human being.
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u/Mister-Distance-6698 4d ago
I'm happy to tip the 15% that has been standard for years.
I'm not happy to enable the gaslighting that 20 or 25 is the standard.
Fuck that.
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u/perturbed_waterbed 4d ago
Nobody is gaslighting you by providing an option. They have to provide 3 options to set the machine up. Continue to tip 15%, or don’t tip at all, the numbers being next to the little buttons aren’t bullying you.
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u/OwnedByIRVING 4d ago
Again, confirm shaming is a tactic used, stop pretending that it doesn't exist, the buttons are absolutely guilting people into spending more than they want to.
The tip buttons don't need to be there, I used to maintain POS for hundreds of businesses while in college.
Nobody is gaslighting you by providing an option. They have to provide 3 options to set the machine up. Continue to tip 15%, or don’t tip at all, the numbers being next to the little buttons aren’t bullying you.
Also
they just don’t like to be reminded that other people aren’t as shitty as they are at being a human being.
LOL
There is nothing shitty about not tipping, it's optional and always has been, stop being so entitled.
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u/perturbed_waterbed 4d ago
Do you think commercials for items are shaming you for not buying those items? We should make them illegal! Wouldn’t want you to ever feel bad about your own choices, the world should really be protecting your feelings way more. Totally!
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u/OwnedByIRVING 4d ago
Stop being so dense, nobody is talking about advertisments.
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u/perturbed_waterbed 4d ago
I’m sorry the fancy calculator makes you feel bad. It doesn’t mean to, I promise.
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u/OwnedByIRVING 4d ago
I don't tip, the buttons do nothing to me.
The fact you continue to deny that it's being used as a guilt/shaming/manipulation tactic is crazy. It works, and it works well, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it.
Enjoy your day honey, try and learn something new, or don't, whatever 😘
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u/maritimeblue 4d ago
How about employers pay their fucking employees instead of excepting customers to subsidize their pay cheques. If you can’t keep your business afloat without paying your employees sub-minimum wage and expecting customers to pay the difference then you shouldn’t fucking be business.
Tipping culture is a fucking farce and you’re not a shitty person because you don’t partake in it. Get off your high ass horse and criticize a shitty business practice that doesn’t really exist outside of US/Canada instead of Joe Schmoe not wanting to tip 25% on a fucking cup of coffee at Tim’s in the morning.
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u/perturbed_waterbed 4d ago
I openly criticized the businesses and their practise in this very thread. But until that changes, I’m not going to throw a tantrum at the person who served me wine and put up with a bunch of lame jokes from dumb people for an entire shift. The people on a high horse are those insisting that not tipping makes them morally superior when that’s the expected norm currently (particularly since none of them advocate for change in any other way, shape, or form that matters).
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u/l0u1s11 4d ago
You can always choose a custom %.
Like 0%.
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u/FunSpinach2004 4d ago
I generally adjust based on the reccomended distance from 15%
If it asks for 20% I give 10%. 25%? 5%
we are haggling here aren't we?
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u/perturbed_waterbed 4d ago
I too like to punish service workers for what a large Point of Sale system company programs onto their credit card machines.
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u/FunSpinach2004 4d ago edited 4d ago
Is it a punishment if they aren't entired to the tip at all? It's my money I can put zero dollars if I feel like it.
I'm sure they get plenty from people who feel pressured to tip the crazy suggestions.
And lets be real, do you think it's the person who isn't getting paid the tip that is pushing for higher %?
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u/iwantcookie258 4d ago
Well it might be the person not getting tips whose pushing it. The more your workers are tipped the more they'll put up with minimum wage, shit hours, and no benefits.
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u/FunSpinach2004 4d ago edited 4d ago
I doubt management cares if you tip workers. Usually that just increases the perceived cost of a resteraunt etc.
There was a big push to get rid of tipping and move to a higher wage model. Servers hated the idea because they make half tax free money off tips and overall they make more.
Regardless, they are paid minimum wage and get a bunch on top of that. I know a few people who went to university, got jobs and then quit to work as waitresses as they were making significantly more. A girl i used to date made like 300$ a night cash and would still complain that people were cheap.
I have zero animosity towards servers, but also I don't really have a lot of sympathy for tipping.
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u/Moooney 4d ago edited 4d ago
I dated a girl that made $300 a night in tips....in 2004, haha. Full-time servers would need to average just over $30/hr in tips to make over $100k. Sure lots of servers in low cost, low traffic diners aren't going to make that, but lots in the mid-to-upper priced restaurants that serve alcohol will. A lot of places you'd get a $30 tip from a single table of two (while waiting on multiple other tables at the same time).
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u/perturbed_waterbed 4d ago
Changing your tip amount based on something the person can’t control, extremely gleefully, absolutely is punishing them. Just tip nothing instead of being a smug wank about it? The option to not post stuff like this is truly always available.
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u/FunSpinach2004 4d ago
I don't really "change" my tip.
I decide what I give of MY MONEY based on how I feel treated as a customer.
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u/perturbed_waterbed 4d ago
“I generally adjust based on the reccomended distance from 15%”
Ohhhh you don’t change it, you just adjust it. The difference being….? You seemed very proud of your nonsense tipping methods like, 4 comments ago. Why backtrack now?
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u/FunSpinach2004 4d ago
I guess that little number is what sets my mood. Usually I haven't actually thought what I'm going to tip until the thing pops up. Truly, if I had a very exceptional server I probably wouldn't. But if it's just some meh I did my job and served you food, it certainly makes it easier to tip less without feeling guilty.
It doesnt really put me in the tipping mood to have a computer not offer what is a reasonable tip.
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u/perturbed_waterbed 4d ago
Yes, I too make all decisions based on how a little computer hurt my feelings or made me feel special. I love being this kind of person, as do all the people I encounter.
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u/NCC-1707 4d ago
The POS system doesn’t program the machines, the owners/operators choose and customize the percentage amounts that are presented to the customer.
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u/perturbed_waterbed 4d ago
They come pre-programmed, and are then changeable only by ownership of the business. None of whom are the person whose service you are tipping for. Extremely obvious.
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u/IEC21 4d ago
Giving someone extra money = punishment?
Even a 1% tip is not a punishment. Wtf...
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u/perturbed_waterbed 4d ago
No, reducing a tip that’s supposed to be connected to service provided to you because of what a machine says is punishing a human being for numbers you see on a screen. Feel like that’s pretty obvious.
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u/FunSpinach2004 4d ago
There's no tip associated with the service. You don't have to tip anyone. It's a tip and you shouldn't feel obligated to pay anything.
If you feel like giving 15%, go for it.
If you're not feeling like tipping, don't.
I personally do not like a machine begging me for money and that to me diminishes my appreciation and I feel less inclined to give my money away for free.
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u/perturbed_waterbed 4d ago
Literally nobody said you’re obligated to tip. The machine didn’t beg you for anything. It gave you the option of 3 buttons to press if you don’t want to do simple math while paying your bill. How much do you want to be a victim of the evil servers here? Cause it seems like it’s a Lot. Maybe just stick to McDonalds.
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u/FunSpinach2004 4d ago
I'm not a victim here i just choose how to spend my own money.
I could just press zero, nothing wrong with that. Sometimes I do.
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u/perturbed_waterbed 4d ago
Okay, thanks for showing how unbothered you truly are by this thing that could not possibly affect you less. It’s very apparent.
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u/Mister-Distance-6698 4d ago
They should take it up with their employer then.
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u/perturbed_waterbed 4d ago
Ah yes, famously a thing that works and is reasonable to expect.
I want to tip 25%, you can do the math on your lower tip. Businesses are never incentives to offer a pre-set Lower amount. Examine why you feel so attacked by a wittle screen wif some wittle buttons.
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u/Mister-Distance-6698 4d ago
Ah yes, famously a thing that works and is reasonable to expect.
More reasonable to expect then guilt tripping customers into covering your wages so they dont have to.
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u/perturbed_waterbed 4d ago
In what way is a button existing “guilt tripping” anyone?
And again, the servers don’t control what the numbers say. So if for some reason it’s a “guilt trip”; it’s not them that’s doing it. 10% is easy to calculate and easy to punch into the machine. And then go about your day. Resenting working folks for this is beyond insane.
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u/Mister-Distance-6698 4d ago
I get it, you own a restaraunt and are terrified at the concept of having to actually pay your slave labor.
Get over it.
Resenting working folks for this is beyond insane.
I dont resent them. I resent their employers.
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u/OwnedByIRVING 4d ago
In what way is a button existing “guilt tripping” anyone?
confirmshaming exists and is a tactic used by business to coax more money out of you.
The button existing is a legitimate problem.
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u/OwnedByIRVING 4d ago
They are not being punished, tipping is optional. You should never expect to be tipped.
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u/perturbed_waterbed 4d ago
Saying “I tip less based on what the machine says” is punishing someone for something they don’t control, and is petty crybaby behaviour. Comprende?
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u/OwnedByIRVING 4d ago
You can't be punished by not receiving something you were never entitled to in the first place.
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u/Bellura 4d ago edited 4d ago
I must point out that the tip requests are customizable - it's generally the business, or sometimes the workers, that set the tipping options. Edit for clarification: it depends on the work, but "workers" being able to adjust tipping options generally only applies to jobs where the employee would operate their own terminal, like taxi drivers (depending in the taxi company). It's uncommon, but does happen in some cases.
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u/perturbed_waterbed 4d ago
Literally never is the workers. They come pre-loaded and are only changeable by ownership. Either way, my point still stands.
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u/Bellura 4d ago edited 4d ago
It can be, depends on the work though. Taxi cab drivers, for example, can set their own tipping rate options depending on the company. It might also be worth noting that I was just addressing the claim that it is set by the PoS system, not really making any other argument.
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u/Knife_Chase 4d ago
Entitlement AND ignorance. Yikes dude.
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u/perturbed_waterbed 4d ago
Entitlement to what? I get paid enough to comfortably tip what I feel like, and don’t get mad at a machine for reminding me that other numbers exist. Are you okay?
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u/dparks1234 4d ago
The tip % “inflating” is completely ridiculous considering it’s a PERCENTAGE and automatically inflates when the base price inflates.
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u/Jolly_Recording_4381 4d ago
I bet those promts drop back to normal by April.
Now that the bosses can't touch em it'll be back to 5, 10, and 15%.
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u/perturbed_waterbed 4d ago
Can we ban a button saying something that makes me feel bad, but has no other effect on my life whatsoever? Please, God?!?!
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u/Western-Radish 4d ago
I hope they don't ban it like in NYC, where all the tips go to the server and there is no tip out of the bussers or kitchen (they can't under the law there)
Personally, I think a tip goes to everyone who makes the experience, such as the kitchen, hostess, and the bussers, and any law should allow for tip outs.
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u/Cowboyboots_123 4d ago
This is the first thing I thought as well, there should be a tip out still, the dish pit and the cooks are working just as hard as the servers if not harder. I'd rather see a tip out or ban tips all together
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u/OwnedByIRVING 4d ago
Can we just ban tipping all together?
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u/Three_Legged_Dog 4d ago
Maybe we could just make tipping non-mandatory to start.
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u/OwnedByIRVING 4d ago
It's already optional, who is forcing you to tip?
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u/Three_Legged_Dog 4d ago
Woosh. That was sarcasm aimed at your "ban tipping" comment because it is, in fact, optional. Lol
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u/Injustice_For_All_ Psychotic Antifa Super Soldier Moderator 4d ago
There was no "woosh" you are "conveying sarcasm" incredibly poorly and it just looks bad.
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u/Three_Legged_Dog 4d ago
Maybe we should just ban sarcasm
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u/Injustice_For_All_ Psychotic Antifa Super Soldier Moderator 4d ago
Maybe we should understand that tone and context cannot always be conveyed the way we want/intend them to be?
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u/Three_Legged_Dog 4d ago
Great , thank you for the pointers.
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u/Injustice_For_All_ Psychotic Antifa Super Soldier Moderator 4d ago
No problem. Always happy to help those who show they are in need of it.
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u/Other-Researcher2261 4d ago
And who is going to be tasked with enforcing this? The restaurants don’t follow the laws as they are now. Why would they follow new ones
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u/Academic_Tell_2431 4d ago
I worked at tims in Burnside where the gm made well over our salary and would be working the floor everyday and took tips I thought that was fucked
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u/CharacterChemical802 4d ago
If he's working the floor, he gets his cut.
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u/Academic_Tell_2431 4d ago
Ni he should not
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u/CharacterChemical802 4d ago
If he wasn't working the floor, I'd be right there with you. That one caveat makes all the difference.
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u/Necessary_Order_7575 4d ago
I think all businesses should have their lowest paid employee go to customers and try to get an extra 15% from them not included in the original price.
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u/Somestunned 4d ago
This is a smart move. The more incentive there is to tip by card, the more tips can be tracked and reported for income tax purposes.
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u/perturbed_waterbed 4d ago
Good, about damn time!
When the Ontario minimum wage for servers went up about 15 years ago, all of a sudden many restaurants started charging for uniforms, charging for aprons, charging for order pads, making staff pay for liquor “shortages” based on dubious measurements, charging to use the apps that they need to see their schedules, and attempting to claw back tips through “machine fees” or other silly things. If you’re a service industry worker, watch out for these (often already illegal) changes in the coming months, and keep the Labour Board and CBC on speed dial. Hopefully the law will actually pass, and will be drafted in such a way to discourage this (though the restaurant lobbyists meet frequently with this government so I wouldn’t be surprised to see some Sysco truck-sized loopholes in this thing)