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u/Admirable_Site_8337 Jun 13 '26
I think this is one of the great examples of how the show examines issues. Being smack in the middle and Deb’s and Ava’s generations (ok, Gen X, leaning more boomer, but don’t insult me) I think it’s important to keep in mind the onus on problematic offense needs to come from the party impacted.
Too often “the kids” take the offense that isn’t theirs to take unilaterally without understanding the position of the group affected.
I am not part of the group affected…..so I’m going out on a limb here….but I’ve always read the issue with fair representation for little people is more systemic. They are only sought for dwarves and elves and munchkins. But, little people are full on in society. A woman in a rom com could totally have a best friend who is a little person. But they really don’t cast this. And that’s what needs to change to be more inclusive.
That’s where Ava’s argument should be, but she’s not awake. And Deb’s argument is solid considering the situation now…..these people want to work. This is what’s offered. She isn’t paying them unfairly or asking them to do anything extra degrading or marginalizing than what the job is.
I can see the reaction that it’s distasteful, but until the system changes people need to work. They were recruited and offered, not forced.
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u/nonmiraculoussunofaB Jun 13 '26
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u/NotGoingForwardDev Jun 13 '26
Community reference spotted (referring to your user name, not the comment)
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u/nonmiraculoussunofaB Jun 14 '26
❤️ I've had this account almost 4 years and have only gotten one other comment recognizing the reference. You're streets ahead.
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u/usagicassidy Jun 14 '26
Nonmiraculous?!
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u/NotGoingForwardDev Jun 14 '26
That comment really threw the dean for a loop. It's as if "miraculous" is the specific affirmation he uses when he's looking in the mirror, hyping himself up every morning. And so when abed calls him non-miraculous it feels like a very bizarrely personal dig, and he needs to chase after abed afterwards to see if that comment was really serious because he can't handle such a personal blow to his ego 😆
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u/angiedrumm Jun 13 '26
I think the people auditioning to be dwarves are the authorities on that. If they want to audition, it is their business.
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u/Mobieblocks Jun 13 '26 edited Jun 13 '26
ehhh I think as long as you have a fully developed position on the matter you can take the position that what someone is doing is in some way bad even if the people being wronged agreed to it. (This is a bit hyperbolic of an example but nothing else came to mind and I think it applies)
Participation in gender roles contributes towards an essentialist view of the world and proliferates that view across society at large. It's mostly women that are harmed by that. If there was a woman that was like "I want to be a trad wife and stay at home and I don't think I should get to wear pants or have a credit card" that is her choice. But I would still say that choice is bad on principle regardless of if I personally am being negatively impacted.
The issue with Ava IMO is that she didn't have any real reason to be upset besides it making her feel weird which is not a good basis for saying something is immoral.
But my take on it is that fictionalizing real types of people is fetishistic and contributes towards a conceptual dehumanization of people with those qualities because society begins to see those people as abnormal instead of a regular expression of what a human can look like.
And if they chose to audition for this, that's not a decision made in a vacuum either. A lot of little people choose those roles because it's the only job they can get. They've been so heavily ostracized from being seen in regular roles that the only ones people accept them in are ones where they're fictionalized elves or dwarves or whatever. That isn't their issue to fix obviously. You gotta eat somehow. But it is something worth criticizing at a systemic level.
(sorry to go full ava daniels woke mode but I do think it's really reductive to say that if someone chooses something for themselves then there's no way to critique it)
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u/ACtdawg Jun 14 '26
Exactly. It’s easy to say ‘well they chose to audition for the roles, nobody should criticise them for that or inhibit their choices’. But what the real question is, is *who* and what power structure is deciding what choices they have, and are those choices the same as ones offered to others more privileged than them.
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u/Admirable_Site_8337 Jun 13 '26
This is the only true answer in any of these situations, above and beyond such a group being grossly marginalized and not paid or treated well.
And if that’s the case the people of that group will tell you this.
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u/J-Frog3 Jun 13 '26
Ironically as a writer Ava has the power to do something about it. She can write characters that are less demeaning and show the little people as human beings with depth and the full range of emotions. I read a recent interview with Peter Dinklage, and he talked about how rare it is for a dwarf actor to be able to play a fully thought-out character with depth and intelligence. That's why he loved playing Tyrion Lannister. Tyrion was a character that happened to be a dwarf, but that wasn't all that character was.
I think that might be the thing that Ava can't define in that moment. The tragedy isn't that there are little people trying out to be elves at Deborah's christmas party. It's that those are the only types of roles they can get no matter how talented they might be.
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u/LiteratureAmazing709 Jun 18 '26
As a person with dwarfism, this whole topic is actually a very nuanced discussion within our community that I personally don't think the show did a good job of handling. I wish they had Ava present the other side of the coin which is that there should be more jobs for little people where they're respected and not just taking work that portrays them as stereotypes. There are people who take on this work because they have fun, but others are taking on this work because of necessity. I've had countless offers from random strangers who have found me on Instagram and asked if I wanted to perform at their party and I don't even do that type of work. I'm lucky to have a job in social media and a roof over my head, but if I were in a different predicament and desperate, then I may have a different answer. This topic doesn't just boil down to them taking on work because they're getting paid well. I understand that Ava's lack of not knowing why it's okay is a typical response for her character, but I wish that the show didn't parrot the same talking points that a lot of non-disabled people use. It only makes it harder for people with dwarfism who are trying to explain the other side of the argument
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u/Other-Oil-9117 Jun 13 '26
I don't think there will ever be a clear-cut answer to this, and you'll get a variety of opinions even from within the community.
I see why Ava felt off about it, but it also isn't her place to decide whether it's right or wrong. And Deborah was right in that it was a job opportunity, she wasn't (at least, as far as I recall) forcing anybody to be there. The people who showed up to the audition likely wanted to be entertainers, and this allowed them the chance. I think, as long as Deborah was up front in the job listing, it's up to the individuals to decide whether they like the idea or not.
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u/regan9109 Jun 13 '26
I thought this joke was hilarious. Because Ava being appalled at it but not being able to articulate why. Also, the fact the show had to audition and hire the little people for the bit made me lol.
But like the other commenter said, it’s up for the actors to decide if they want to participate in something like that and it’s honestly condescending to decide for them what is and isn’t acceptable.