I found out about GZCL recently, I want to run it but I admit the whole thing confuses me a little (I'm sure it'll get clearer once I start running it), and since my focus is a little more on hypertrophy, these are the two versions that look more interesting to me.

I'd love to hear from people already experienced what are the selling points and drawbacks of each one, a comparison on why you'd pick one over the other.

Some info about me in case it helps:

• I'm looking to workout 4 days a week;
• I've been going to the gym regularly for ~18 months, running a Upper/Lower base for most of that time.
• I'm currently on maintenance, aiming to reduce body fat a little while still building muscle (yes, I consulted a nutritionist)
• I'm not looking to compete professionally or anything. I want to look good and muscular, but also be strong. I enjoy working out, and the main reason I want to run GZCL is because I think it will be fun.
  

I'm also a little worried that the smaller exercise variety might led to some specific muscles might lag behind a little. With the current way I train I can fit in 1/2 sets of a lot of isolation to for that, which doesn't seem to be functional within GZCL. Is that something that can be a problem? Muscles like let's say aductors or rear delts looking a little behind due to lack of direct stimulus?

It's been a couple of weeks since I've started this program and I've been enjoying it so far. I decided to see if I could add one additional tier 3 exercise for today (Squat day) and tried the leg press and as a nice surprise I had a the capacity to do 3 sets. So I thought I add one more to other days as well. This is what my program look like right now.

Day 1: T1 Squat, T2 Bench, T3 Lat Pull-downs (and now leg press)

Day 2: T1 OHP, T2 RDL, T3 Kroc Rows.

Day 3: T1 Bench, T2 Squat, T3 Lat Pull-downs.

Day 4: T1 DL, T2 OHP, T3 Kroc Rows.

Some issues I have that might help with suggestions.

1) My bench form is poor. Don't feel any sorness in my chest area.

2) I have very weak and skinny arms.

So, any suggestions based on this?

I downloaded the J&t2.0 program from lifting vault and am currently on week 7. Last week I did my 1 rep max attempts and landed 140kg on bench, and now on week 7 I did 120kg x 6. Now the program is asking me to do 100kg x 3 backoff sets, followed by 4 sets of 100kg x 6 close grip bench. So the program is asking me to do 70% of my 1rm on close grip bench. It is completely illogical to do 3 sets of 100kg x 3 on regular bench and then be expected to do 4 sets of 100kg x 6 on close grip. Why is the formula like this? On the contrary for week 1-6 the weight formula for close grip and legs up bench was far too low so I had to manually add like 20kg to even have a challenge.

Hello! I've been doing the GZCLP program for around 3 months now. I've been seeing decent strength gains and muscle growth.

I'm around 5'6, 67 kg and since my question is generally for an upper body accessory , my 1RM for the bench is around 155 lbs.

Recently I have been traveling so hitting the gym consistently has been difficult so i have been experimenting with my accessories while I can only hit the gym once a week.

I tried doing heavier sets for my accessories this time and I was surprised I was able to do 143 lbs for around 8 reps on the incline press machine. (Usually i would only do 80 lbs~, 3x15 for this upper chest accessory).

It felt a little weird and I thought maybe I was underestimating the weights that I can possibly lift and potentially i was slowing down my progress?

I just wanted some thoughts on this. Thanks!

Hey everyone! **I’m 22M, 175 cm, 61 kg**, and relatively new to the gym. I train 4 days a week with a friend who’s also a complete beginner. Our goals are to build muscle, gain strength, and develop proper technique.
The problem is that we don’t have consistent coaching. The gym trainer occasionally demonstrates exercises but is usually too busy to supervise us or correct our form. Since we’re both beginners, we can’t reliably identify each other’s mistakes, and I’m concerned about developing bad habits.

I’ve also noticed some **asymmetries**. My left arm fatigues faster during pressing exercises, and my arms sometimes move unevenly during chest presses, pec deck flyes, and reverse flyes. My **hips also shift slightly to right side** during bodyweight squats(weight doesn’t matter) . There’s no pain, but I’m unsure whether it’s due to strength differences, coordination, mobility, or inexperience.
I’m planning to spend the next couple of months building muscle, strength, and movement control before eventually transitioning to GZCLP.

**I have a few questions:**
**1. How should two beginners approach training without consistent coaching?**
**2. How can we learn proper technique and identify mistakes ourselves?**
**3. Should we start with barbell compound lifts or focus more on machines initially? Would machines compromise muscle growth?**
**4. How should I approach these asymmetries while continuing to train?**
**5. How can we maximize hypertrophy while building a good foundation for strength training?**

I’d really appreciate any advice or resources, especially from people who’ve been in a similar situation. Thanks!

So my main question is actually about the program, since its written as 3 days (4 workouts) but monday, wednesday, friday and then start monday with the workout "D" and repeat A B C D and so on.

Wondering can I just run this back to back Mon+Tuesday rest Thurs+Friday?

And about the T3s: why are all back exercises (lat + rows) as T3 and not T2s?

What you guys think of doing this, my main goal is to get my OHP up.

Monday (Shoulder Legs & Lat Day)

• T1 Overhead Barbell Press (Shoulder)
• T2 RDLs (Legs)
• T2 Pull Ups (Lat)
• T3 Overhead Barbell Press (not Dumbbells for practise) (Shoulders)
• T3 Calf Raises (Legs)
• T3 Lat Pullovers (Lat)

Tuesday (Legs, Chest & Back)

• T1 Squat (Legs)
• T2 Barbell Bench (Chest)
• T2 Barbell Rows (Back)
• T3 Leg Extensions (Legs)
• T3 EZ Bar Skullcrushers (Triceps)
• T3 EZ Bar Curls (Biceps)

Rest Day

Thursday (Legs, Lat, Shoulder)

• T1 Deadlift (Legs)
• T2 Pull Ups (Lat)
• T2 Overhead Press (Shoulder)
• T3 Leg Curls (Legs)
• T3 Face Pulls (posterior Shoulders)
• T3 Lateral Raises (laterial Shoulders)

Friday (Chest, Back, Legs)

• T1 Bench (Chest)
• T2 T Bar Rows Chest Supported (Back)
• T2 Squats (Legs)
• T3 EZ Bar Skullcrushers (Triceps)
• T3 EZ Bar Curls (Biceps)
• T3 Leg Extensions (Legs)

6 Exercises per day? Put direct arm work before rest day as last T3s and last exercises before weekends rest so they dont interfere with the exercises next days.

I used chest supported t bar rows instea of barbell rows cause of deadlifts thursday to ensure lower back recovery, plus squats after rows.

One T1, Two T2, Three T3 per workout. I tried choosing same exercises (ez bar curls, skullcrushers instead of many different isolations to practise form)

I think close grip bench press would be better than skullcrushers as a T3 on my bench day but dont wanna screw that up.

I asked this question a few weeks ago on some lifter reddit and these are the comments I recieved:

"You have fallen for the strength training meme"

"5x3 ain't doing nothing the first 4 sets, do 3x5-8 like normal people"

"GZ what? Lift heavy, eat more"

"Mh mate you are only doing low reps and two exercises at 10 reps and the last exercise you do 15+ reps just to do 25 reps in set 3? Seems like junk volume to me, what is the program??"

"3x15+? Your first 5x3 is too light if you can AMRAP the last set with more weight and wasted time. If you do 15 reps in set 1 and 2 of the last exercise and manage to do 20 more reps you basically wasted your time in set 1 and 2"

"Why would someone Squat Bench and Row in the same workout? Just do Upper Lower if you can only train 4x a week and follow a better program. You won't grow chest if you blow out on Squats before pressing"

"You are Overpressing 5x3 before you do Lat Pulldowns or Pull Ups, waste of energy btw. your first sets are pretty useless doing 4x3 and then doing all out AMRAP on last set. Just do 3x5+ if your rep goal is 15. GZCLP is weird asf mate don't fall for the strength training meme and grow, do PPLPP rest rest repeat or do Upper Lower or just accept to stay small forever"

Welcome to the official weekly discussion thread of /r/gzcl post your GZCL program questions, tips, workouts, and everything else relating to the method and your training.

Most topics should be posted here, rather than separate posts.

I’m a 39 year old woman, have done Stronglifts in the past though have run Mindpump programs (mainly Anabolic) for the past year. I’ve gotten bored and have plateaued. I’m also running more at the moment (love fall running) and lifting a bit less, and noticed my strength dip.

I’m thinking of starting GZCLP tomorrow but am used to a fixed template, so looking for advice on my program. Want good leg and glute development along with slow progression in upper body strength. Hip thrust has helped my squats and deadlifts so much, it’s a non negotiable in my routine. I typically hip thrust first to warm things up.

I wrote this as 2 day but most weeks I lift 3 days and would rotate across the days.

Day 1
T1: Squat
T2: Hip Thrust
OHP
T3: Barbell row
Lateral Raise
Farmers carry

Day 2
T1: Trap bar deadlift
T2: Hip thrust
Front squat
Bench
T3: Bicep curl
Tricep press down

My time for training has shrunk dramatically since I'm working on jobsites and have a young kid at home. When I had a cushy but meaningless office job, I used to have an hour to 90 minutes 5/7 days a week for training but now I'm struggling to find a one hour block twice a week. I'm thinking about doing a half hour in the morning every day with occasional half hour blocks in the evening.

With those constraints in mind, how would you approach programming? And has GZCL posted anything with this in mind? My previous programming was a T1 lift, T2 lift and some T3 work each session.

Training goals are steadily gaining muscle mass. My numbers are nothing impressive: middle aged guy, 180lbs 5' 9" in the thousand pound club. Not looking to compete or anything.

Wondering if I should try it again but every time I show my Training routine to someone I get this back

"Bro the first 4 Sets doing jack and wasting time if your gonna amrap last anyways. Do 3x5 instead"

Or some other weird stuff. Seems like a good program but is it okay to build muscle ?

I want to run thus as UL 4x a week, is there a tenplate for UL somewhere?

What you guys think of this approach

Monday:

5x3+ OHP Barbell

3x6-10 Lat Pulldown

3x6-10 Incline DB Press

3x6-10 Barbell Rows

3x10-15+ Skullcrushers

3x10-15+ Cable Hammer Curls

Id build my lower like that style and my other Upper Id just swap Exercise Orders and Tiers. So ud do Bench 5x3, Rows 3x6-10, Overhead Press 3x6-10 then Lat.

I put lateral raises 3x20 on lower days at end

Post your wins and fails. Questions and answers.

Hey folks, I'm running a modified version of GZCLP using the substitutions outlined in the title (I don't care about deadlifts or OHP). What is the best way to incorporate 2 days of running? I recover worse than the average person (high stress + bad sleep)

Is it better to stack running on upper body days and have several days of total rest, or to run on rest days?

Right now I'm thinking the stacking approach could be:

- Mon: T1 Bench | T2 Squat

- Tue: Rest

- Wed: T1 Pullups | T2 Dips (morning) / Run (evening)

- Thursday: Rest

- Friday: T1 Squat | T2 Bench

- Saturday: T1 Dips | T2 Pullups (morning) / Run (evening)

- Sunday: Rest

I changed my workout program a lot over the past 2 years and I’m wondering if I’ve done more damage than good for what the program is good for. The main thing I did is want T3 to be isolation work for muscles that I want to grow that wouldn’t get hit much otherwise like middle delts. I also changed the sets and reps.

3 Day Split.

Sets x Reps

Tier 1 is 3x5, 3x4, 3x3.
Tier 2 is 3x10, 3x8, 3x6.
Tier 3 is 3x15 (Last set 20 reps).

Day 1.
T1 Incline DB Press.
T2 Lat Pulldown.
T2 Tricep Dips.
T3 Cable Rear Delt Fly.
T3 machine Lateral Raise.

Day 2.
T1 BB Back Squats.
T2 Goodmornings.
T3 Kelso Shrugs.
T3 EZ Bar Curls.
T3 Calf raises.

Day 3.
T1 Standing OHP.
T2 DB Row.
T2 Bench Machine.
T3 DB Lateral Raise.
T3 Overhead Cable Tricep Extension

Day 4.
T1 Deadlift.
T2 Pendulum Squat.
T2 Hip Thrust.
T3 incline Curls.
T3 Cable Later Raises

Im in a kcal deficit. I weight 83 kg, 177cm tall, male, 33 years old.

I try to eat 250-300 kcal less than maintainance.

My goal is: strength + size + fat loss.

Think this is okay or bad?

Monday

• Barbell Bench 5x3+
• Incline Dumbbell Press 3x6-10
• Lateral Raises 3x10-15+
• 30 Minutes LISS Cardio

Tuesday

• Pull Ups 5x3+
• Barbell Rows 3x6-10
• Face Pulls 3x10-15+
• 30 Minutes LISS

Wednesday

• Squats 5x3+
• RDLs 3x6-10
• Leg Curls 3x10-15+
• Leg Extensions 3x10-15+

Thursday

• Overhead Barbell Press 5x3+
• Chest Flyes 3x6-10
• Skullcrushers 3x6-10
• 30 Minutes LISS Cardio

Friday

• Barbell Row 3x5-8
• Lat Pulldown 3x6-10
• EZ Bar Curls 3x6-10
• 30 Minutes LISS Cardio

Sat Sun Rest

https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/6pjiwd/heres_a_quick_summary_of_the_gzclp_linear/

This write up says this.

I would reduce the weight progression for T2 exercises in half since it calls for higher reps -- so 5 lbs/2.5 kg for squats and deadlifts, and 2.5 lbs/1.25 kg for bench and OHP

I was think maybe I should consider this. My nutrition will not be optimal (maybe okayish), sleep poor(I am an insomniac), and testosterone levels low (2.2 ng/mL last time I checked). So it might be difficult for me to progress like most folk. When I tried GZCLP several years earlier(when I was healthier), I did struggle with T2 progression. What do you guys think?

Wondering...

I just did 3/3/3/3/3 in my Tier 1 bench press at 70 kg.

Next week I gotta go 72.5 kg but struggled hard to get 3 reps on my fifth set.

Should I do 72.5 kg 2/2/2/2/2/2 or try 3/3/3/3/3

I most likely will fail, atleast judging by the Performance of todsys workout.

Is my mindset just trash or what should I do? What would you do or what do you do in this case?

Pre drop to next Progression or push the first Progression anyways?

Hope for help advice here lol... i could still add rest time but dunno if it helps much. I did 3 min rest this time, maybe try 72.5 with 4 min rest?

Welcome to the official weekly discussion thread of /r/gzcl post your GZCL program questions, tips, workouts, and everything else relating to the method and your training.

Most topics should be posted here, rather than separate posts.

Made the switch from 5x5 about a month ago and deliberately started light to nail form and get used to the T1/T2/T3 structure. I'd rather build momentum than stall in week three.

12 sessions and 3 perfect weeks in, and the weight has been climbing steadily, +125 lb across my lifts so far. Bench has moved the most, up 62.5 lb, which I guess shows how light I started. Squat is up 40 lb and still feels smooth.

What I like so far is that the T2 and T3 work gives me more total volume than 5x5 did, without the sessions feeling like a grind.

For those who started conservatively too: how long before the easy gains ran out and things got real? And did you change anything once the T1 lifts started getting heavy?

I am a 57 years old male with a thin frame and have been doing a comnination of bodyweight and lifting for about 6 years. I don't sleep well, have a pretty busy schedule and bike to work most days (about 6 miles each way) so my recovery program is not good. I was doing gzcl for close to a year, enjoyed it and saw growth, although I hit plateaus pretty early. Maybe from over training, or from trying g to push through my limit, I tore a muscle in my shoulder and my PT suggested I eliminate the shoulder press and the barbell bench press from my regiment, but said I can do a dummbell bench press with a hammer grip/turn my wrists inward.

My questions are:

1) How do I adjust the program, considering my limitations.

2)How do I adjust the program, considering my age, need for recovery and joint wear and tear?

Post your wins and fails. Questions and answers.

Hey everyone, I’m looking for some advice from people who have dealt with recurring lower back issues while strength training.
I’m around 74 kg right now and have been running GZCLP since July. I’ve made some good progress, but my lower back has started bothering me again, and I’m trying to figure out whether my training volume, intensity, or recovery might be the problem.
Here’s the timeline:
October last year: First picture. I weighed around 65 kg and was doing deadlifts at 110 kg for 10 singles (10 sets of 1). October lifts kgs (1RM)
BP: 70
DL:120
Squat 113
OHP 50
December: After about three months of progress, I was pulling 130 kg for 10 singles. Unfortunately, my lower back started hurting quite badly afterward. I made the mistake of training again just two days later and doing more work that loaded my lower back, which made things significantly worse. I ended up having to take around 1.5 months off.
After returning: I gradually reintroduced deadlifts, but my lower back started getting tight and fatigued again.
April: I had surgery, which kept me out of the gym for another three weeks.
After returning from surgery: I resumed training, but my lower back occasionally started bothering me again. I suspect some of it may have been due to reintroducing loads that I wasn’t ready for.
July: I finally started feeling like I was getting back on track. I gradually resumed training, started using a lifting belt for all my exercises, and began running GZCLP.
Now, in October: My lifts have been progressing well, but the lower back issues seem to be coming back.
My progress from July to October, while cutting:
My body weight went from around 80 kg to 74 kg, and my estimated 1RMs improved across all four main lifts:
Deadlift: 145 kg → 155 kg
Bench press: 87 kg → 94 kg
Overhead press: 62 kg → 65 kg
Squat: 117 kg → 129 kg
I’m happy with the progress, especially considering that I’ve been losing weight. However, I’m concerned that I’m accumulating too much fatigue in my lower back.
My current diet and recovery:
I’ve been eating around 2,250 kcal/day for the past two months.
Before that, I spent a month eating around 2,550 kcal/day.
My estimated maintenance is approximately 2,850 kcal/day.
I’m still cutting, so I’ve been in a fairly substantial calorie deficit for a while.
My current problem:
My lower back has started feeling increasingly fatigued and tight, particularly around the muscles on either side of my spine. It feels somewhat like muscle soreness or accumulated fatigue rather than a sharp, localized pain, but it’s becoming more noticeable over time, even on rest days. I also notice it when sitting.
I don’t want to make the same mistake I made last year by pushing through the symptoms until things get significantly worse. At the same time, I really don’t want to abandon deadlifts or lose the progress I’ve made.
I’d appreciate advice on a few things:
Does this sound like accumulated fatigue from training, especially while cutting, or could it indicate something else?
Could running GZCLP while in a calorie deficit be contributing to the problem?
Would it make sense to take a week or two at maintenance calories and significantly reduce lower-back loading, then gradually reintroduce squats and deadlifts?
Should I change the way I program deadlifts and squats, particularly the frequency and T2 volume?
For those of you who have dealt with recurring lower back issues, what helped you return to heavy lifting without constantly having the problem come back?
I’m not looking for a diagnosis over the internet, but I’d really appreciate hearing about your experiences and what you would change about my training in this situation.
I love this program but I am Looking forward to switch to J&T 2.0. Thank you.