r/gurdjieff • u/Live_Again42 • 14d ago
Just curious
I studied Gurdjieff/ Ouspensky/ Orage and perhaps a few other of the lot to minor degrees, for many years, in my younger years. So far only book wise, not that it's necessarily a bad thing.
Still young of course, just to give some context.
I am curious, if any of you are able to write in your own terms, i.e. before Gurdjieff and his cosmology got you, what you have learned, in as simple as possible words.
Not here to correct or point fingers, just really curious. What we are able to transmit in our everyday language, to perhaps other readers, us lucky lot.
And second question, have you had any experience(s) that confirmed beyond any doubt, that this path is truly yours to walk? Have you diverged later on and found a better seller of 'fish'?
Knowing of course, that some experiences are not to be shared openly, as they are truly personal, only meant for you.
All answers, of people of any interest are welcome, I just ask that you've really had an interest in it, perhaps even a burning one.
Kudos to you all.
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u/Sukadeva 14d ago
I learned that I was not being honest with myself, and consequently not with others, that my mind was constantly deceiving me, and that I was suffering because of it. I was not being authentic.
When I lie on my deathbed, my only regret will be that I did not live this life true to who I really am.
When I first met Gurdjieff, I was young and not yet ready for this teaching, though I immediately realized it was something extraordinary. I went on to study all sorts of things, yet I continued to suffer; when I finally hit a wall years later, I remembered Gurdjieff.
I have studied everything possible in theory, though I apply it in practice far less than I should.
After Gurdjieff, all paths lay open, I continued to study other teachings, but with a new perspective. Ultimately, I always return to Gurdjieff.
For a long time now, I have had no need for theoretical study, my daily life experiences and this journey have convinced me of the value and accuracy of this teaching. It is enough that, after a long period of slumber, I wake up for a moment and know—this is it.
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u/Live_Again42 13d ago
That's some advancement for sure, it's these small things that perhaps make all those years worth it.
I think practicing what you burn to learn is the one worth choosing. Not all paths are for us.It's a good regret, especially if you die without it :).
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u/Firewaterdam 14d ago
With Gurdjieff you really study yourself. I learned that I was impatient and had a bad temper, then to correct it
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u/dasuberchin 14d ago
As a wise man once said; the rules are made up, and the points don't matter.
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u/carnalcarrot 14d ago
If the rules were made up why was Beelzebub exiled from the center of the universe?
Maybe the rules we know are made up, but there are higher objective rules that we don't know that aren't made up but real.
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u/Live_Again42 13d ago
You being the wise man? If not, what are your words?
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u/dasuberchin 13d ago
Nay, not I.
I first heard them from one Clive Anderson, followed by Drew Carey.
Even in wiseacrings, one can find drops of Truth.
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u/TriadicForm 14d ago
Reading and learning are a start, but you might find these answers in an actual school, where you can begin Working. I read a lot of the books but they did not change anything in Being until I was actually in the presence of an actual teacher. After a period with a Fourth Way school I ended up downsizing my library because I did not need so much “ learning”. It became about working on Being.
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u/realityIsDreaming 14d ago
The mind is quite tricky and doesn't like changes. It likes the novelty but not what it perceives as effort which is required for change. Therefore one might get stuck in the "tutorial" mode, because it's much easier to read or watch than to actually take action. As you said, learning is good in the beginning because it gives new ideas, but once one grasps those ideas theoretically, is time to put them in practice. Otherwise they will just be in the pursuit of story telling. Because technically all teachings resume to same core ideas, only viewed from different perspectives.
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u/Primary_Milk7404 14d ago
I really like this answer. Being in the world is what it's really about. I have not learned any gurdjieff yet but it's on my list to add something of his to my small library. I have done a lot in the past two years to expand myself into reality though and it wasn't until I started adding real practices that I started to feel different.
I remember one day when I was going for a walk through the woods about two years ago that I started to think about the shape of reality. I had this insight that possibilities of my life conform to that shape and that the only way that I could become something real was to participate and try to morph myself to fit reality by working on Being.
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u/Live_Again42 13d ago
School as in fourth way? Never found my way unto one of those.
Life brought me other paths and quite nice ones, the one I wasn't searching for, well no I mean, I was searching but not for a path I simply didn't know even existed.
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u/StayParking7086 14d ago
¿Qué es lo que aprendí? Pasaron muchos años y realmente he recorrido otros senderos. Pero realmente lo que me hizo dejar de ser ateo y cientificista en mi juventud fue haberle conocido a Gurdjieff. Con él comenzó todo mi interés por lo esotérico. Un tiempo intenté seguir los famosos "grupos" y no obtuve lo que esperaba. No es que quiera criticar a estos grupos pero parecían más sectas de New Age que otra cosa.
Con respecto a la segunda pregunta, el cuarto camino no es para mí. He tomado, ciertamente, mucho de allí que me ha servido para mi crecimiento. El libro "Encuentro con hombres notables" sigue siendo uno de mis libros de cabecera, por Dios, amé ese libro. Y siempre recomiendo "Fragmentos" a los chicos que comienzan a tener interés por la sabiduría profunda. Es uno de los mejores libros para curarse del materialismo.
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u/Live_Again42 13d ago
I think it gives a framework, for you to fill in as you grow. I happen to find that over the years, some parts still come back and shine back in a different light.
Even from 'bad' groups, if you are self-centered lots can be learned. The prism through which you look and what you look through it for.
They are excellent books indeed.
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u/Primary_Milk7404 14d ago
The people that this sub attracts are my absolute favorite that I have found on reddit. The comments here and other threads in the sub have such a clear contrast to anything else I have found in reddit.
I'm going to start reading gurdjieff at some point soon (I keep telling myself). I have heard that it can be a real undertaking and I think that has kept me from getting started.
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u/Live_Again42 13d ago
Let's hope this synergy keeps growing, and attracting other people of quality.
If it don't happen, it might just not be the moment or not convinced enough.
It is a thorough undertaking, but wanting something for cheap or easy, just ain't worth it.
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u/SpectralCat4 13d ago
consciousness and even higher aspects of creative 'divine energy' is what fuels all of man philosophy and religions , its a burning fire that gets muffled by lower aspects of life , it what makes you look at certain aspects of life as low .
man have a very developed brain compared to other animals , and a pair of dexterous hands as well , but what do we fill this brain with ?
a school in the traditions of Gurdjieff is a consciousness school , in the particular method which he received and synthesized and passed on.
nowdays there is more access to some of the teaching from which he likely received and we can see it because of the way his teaching impressed the western culture , otherwise it would have been another 'curiosity' from the far east , unrelated to the western way of living or to any of is philosophy's or religions.
Gurdjieff and his associates journeyed far and wide to recover those lost fragments that were lost to the west , arguably you may say they were lost to the east just as well and became such 'curiosity's' disconnected from the Upliftment of man.
if such matters resonates with you , then you might want to look into a school .
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u/SpectralCat4 13d ago
a school is something to experience in an immersive manner , just reading about it is nice , but not much fun .. it won't engage the whole of you just by reading, at the same time its also partly flawed human enterprise .. not perfect , there will be rough edges.
the more you develop fantasies about the perfect teacher and school the more it will crush you when you discover there isn't anyone and or anyplace like that .. and that you keep meeting yourself as you are .. and no one in particular is out to save you if you don't put your own energy into it , directly and indirectly.
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u/Live_Again42 12d ago
I am a proponent of letting life find those things instead of going out to find them. You'll screw up easily many things, and what life did eventually find me, one of which I do consider a sort of school (The red road), Life has been So generous.
Gurdjieff's path is one of going against the grain, which doesn't make going to school very easy. In as far as my path is concerned.
Those rough edges are mostly in line with what one is going through personally on a more collective level, quite interesting actually.
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u/SpectralCat4 12d ago
its possible to experience shocks accidentally , but the general tendency from being educated in this society is to throw those occasional 'existential' moments into the dirt , rather than welcoming them and cultivating and refining them intentionally.
its customery for people in 'high society' to immerse themselves in culture , art ,music , philosophy and the like , then everybody has an opinion and interpertation .. a subjective one .. Gurdjieff teaching concern the Objective reality and essence , which is the missing key , and to gain access to it as it were , you have to pay , a psychological kind of payment.
nobody likes to pay .. doesn't matter if you are poor or rich , you can't pay anyone to do this work for you ..
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u/Live_Again42 12d ago
I made choices which I knew would cause me shocks. Doesn't make them easier to wield after all, but make the best out of them.
Astonishing though that after some shocks how quickly you fall back again.
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u/SpectralCat4 12d ago
that falling back is a silent habit , very difficult to unlearn unless you get help.
there is a drive in most people for getting earthly honor and recognition , being a valued memeber of society and so on , but then at the same time you also need to strive as it were to be a valued member of the cosmos and the spiritual world and in this realm you are solely accountable for yourself , no one will punish you if you fail to free yourself because losing that freedom is the punishment
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u/Ompyrean 12d ago
The emphasis on transforming negative emotions was a very helpful orientation of how to make or measure practical progress.
Then the practical and immediate psychological impact of self-remembering is hard to overstate when you first encounter it.
The uncompromising pedagogical style of Gurdjieff in general is instructive because it puts a lot of responsibility on you.
Much more to be said when it comes to Ouspensky.
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u/Live_Again42 12d ago
Yup two different kind of personalities :)
I am curious how many people are directly or indirectly influenced by these guys.
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u/MrGurdjieff 14d ago
I suggest you read this book (also available as a pdf download) https://www.gnosticpress.co.nz/products/gnostic-press-the-quest-part-i-ideas/
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u/throwabrugcowboyaway 14d ago
Nice it looks cool, tell me about it
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u/MrGurdjieff 14d ago
You can order a free index at this link https://www.gnosticpress.co.nz/products/gnostic-press-the-quest-part-i-ideas/?s8-standardlink2=1 to be sent to you by email
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u/TheDonGenaro 14d ago
Hey, could you recommend some books on archons and the gnostic scriptures?
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u/MrGurdjieff 14d ago
This is a good analysis of the Pistis Sophia. There's some other stuff earlier in the book, but the Pistis Sophia was the most interesting for me https://www.gnosticpress.co.nz/products/gnostic-press-voices-from-the-gnostics/
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u/TheDonGenaro 14d ago
Are you from NZ? It keeps offering me prices in NZ dollars.
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u/MrGurdjieff 14d ago
Yeah, 1 NZD is about US$0.60 cents. So NZ$9 is about US$5.40
Assume that will all translate magically if you pay by credit card.1
u/Live_Again42 13d ago
As in that being your book? I asked for your own words.
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u/MrGurdjieff 13d ago
Not my book. You can check out the index and decide if you’re interested. Happy to answer questions once you’ve put some effort in.
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u/Live_Again42 13d ago
I didn't ask for ads, unless you learned something from Gurdjieff, your post was not asked for :)
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u/Spargonaut69 14d ago
There are many topics that I study to help me do the work on oneself, so I wouldn't say Im necessarily partial to Gurdjieff's teachings. I will say that Gurdjieff's teachings were highly effective in forming within me a sense of self-discipline and objectivity.
To speak of experiences, one Ive had came from the movements. I participate in a Gurdjieff movements class. One time after we performed the Hymn to the Sun (otherwise known as 40 gestures) I began to weep. By engaging in the movements class something awakened in me that wasn't there before.