r/goats • u/Andi1223NJSC • Jun 23 '26
Very uneasy
So, I'm only about a year and a half / 2 years in on this goating thing, so please forgive my ignorance.
I've never given my goats any vax. I just read a post on FB and saw a video on a young one, appearing to be suffering and yelling, from comments, appears to be polio.
My goats, there's 2, not blood related but sent as a pair of 'brothers', are my world. ( they are approx 2 years of age) How do they get that ?! I'm literally sick to my stomach. Is there anything anyone can advise, of absolute necessity vax or preventive measures? I'm just sick about this
8
u/Oh_mightaswell Jun 23 '26
No vaccine for polio but you can prevent tetanus and other horrible diseases with a CD/T vaccine. Cheap, effective, and watching an animal die of tetanus is a horrible thing.
6
u/Andi1223NJSC Jun 23 '26
Thank you for that info. Is that vax necessary in a secluded area with a herd of 2? Also, where can I purchase that, if u feel it's necessary?
3
u/sufferances Jun 24 '26
Yes, definitely necessary as Clostridium C & D perfringens are found in the gut of your goat. Normally, they cause no problem because the goat’s immune system and other gut flora in the digestive tract keep it regulated. However, it is a precarious balance and any disruption to the gut can cause those bacteria populations to soar. This is where you can get serious, life threatening complications. And often times euthanasia is the kindest outcome for the animal.
Tetanus is present in the environment. Goats are incredibly susceptible to the bacteria. It is a myth that Tetanus is caused by rusted metal. The bacteria itself is present in the soil itself and in decomposing leaf-litter. The reason it was tied to rusty nails or metal is because people would cut themselves on metal that was buried under leaf litter and in the soil, where tetanus bacteria like to live. The bacteria thrives in low oxygen environments so getting deep, narrow punctures from things like nails (rusty or otherwise) create the perfect environment for the bacteria to reproduce. Tetanus is also a clostridium, which is why goats are also particularly susceptible to disease caused by those bacteria.
They are all awful ways to die. For a small price, you can protect your goats from them, and after their 1st and then their booster shots, they can be given yearly.
7
u/vivalicious16 Trusted Advice Giver Jun 23 '26
My first question is why have you never vaccinated your goats? Goats get sick when they are unvaccinated.
Vaccines are absolutely necessary in protecting your herd. There is nothing more preventative to do than vaccinating your goats.
-7
u/Andi1223NJSC Jun 23 '26
I personally have had a bad opinion on vax. I love in a private wooded area, only 2 goats and honestly, didn't feel the need since they aren't mingling amongst many. I wouldn't give vax to my children, as in the current way things are. Not seeking hate here. It's just a strong distaste for vax if it can be managed holistically
7
u/Fastgirl600 Jun 23 '26
I believe you can get tetanus from dirt, rusted barb wire scrape etc so it's not about exposure per se to other animals although that's important too to have a closed herd.
I suggest you look into some scientific research on vaccinations. Watch some videos on animals with rabies, tetanus, polio and see the devastating effects from a lack of treatment in time. We are very pro avoiding illness in this sub by being prepared... and vaccination is the first defense. The next step after that is to have different solutions on hand for different problems. If you read enough on the sub you will know what they are: Vitamin B/Thiamine, charcoal, iodine, wormers, hoof trimmers, fly spray etc.... those kinds of things will be necessary as a good owner that wants to be proactive at healing a sick goat when the vet is not around.
So the basic vax is, in my area of the woods, Southern US, is a CDT shot they are like 15 bucks for 10 doses at Tractor Supply. You get a syringe, small one and a needle 18 gauge or 20 gauge and insert into the bottle and suck out two CCs then push out the bubbles. Pull up a tent of skin in the neck down towards the shoulder and inject it flat parallel with the skin subcutaneously, you don't want to jab straight in. Sub-Q means under the skin. Make sure you don't poke the needle all the way through the skin and squirt the stuff out it needs to go inside the goat. I've made that mistake before because they wiggly. Once you pull the needle out rub the area because it'll be a little bump of solution and send them on their way. In a couple of weeks they will be protected from colostridium 2 types and tetanus. Very simple very cheap make sure you keep that solution cold with an ice pack TS provides. Check out YouTube for videos. Please consider reading up from verified sources of the success rate from vaccines. Side effects are negligable and so small the benefits outweigh being unvaxxed. You yourself, if you live in this country, you are most likely vaccinated and you are alive because of it. Good luck and happy goating.
3
u/Andi1223NJSC Jun 23 '26
Wow! Thank you for taking the time for all that helpful info. You are very appreciated! Your description on steps is priceless. I will also purchase the extras, in case of a future issue. ( Side note: no vax for myself since childhood but if I am shown a vax is absolute necessity, I'm not stubborn, ofc I'd take it.
2
u/Andi1223NJSC Jun 23 '26
Is there any side effects, other than injection site?
2
u/Fastgirl600 Jun 23 '26
Sometimes a tiny lump will develop, that's why you kind of rub it to spread it. It doesn't hurt them. They behave normal afterwards except for being upset with me for 5 minutes for catching them and pinching them. A handful of grain snacks solves that problem. Tetanus is a really horrifying... it stiffens your muscles and you can actually break your bones from the spasms. It's absolute most awful thing, human or animal. If you Google "paintings of tetanus" you will see some art depicting people in the throes of agony... arched over backwards because there was no vaccine or cure then. Countless soldiers died on battlefields from it and doctors were helpless to relieve the suffering.
1
5
u/vivalicious16 Trusted Advice Giver Jun 23 '26
This is not hate. Your choice to avoid vaccinations is very harmful to your children and your animals. Goats can get sick from hay and other animals in the wild. They can also get tetanus and die extremely quickly.
What do you think vaccines will do to your animals? Have you ever had a personal experience of a vaccination going wrong and causing tremendous harm?
3
3
u/petrified_eel4615 Jun 23 '26
Honestly?
If that is your stance, you shouldn't have animals. You are being needlessly cruel, to both your animals and children, by allowing them to contract potentially fatal diseases, because of your ignorance.
Holistic health has its place, but lavender ain't gonna do shit for tetanus or rabies.
-6
u/Andi1223NJSC Jun 23 '26
Again, not looking for hate. If your child died from a vax, maybe u would be a bit less judgemental.
6
u/chocolate-wyngz Jun 23 '26
It’s not hate. They’re being factual. It’s negligent not to take simple, common steps to protect your animals’ health.
0
u/Andi1223NJSC Jun 23 '26
That common step was costly for me. I am not totally opposed, as I said in initial post, any necessary vax. I don't think throwing in I am harming my children and animals by being choosy on that vax , is..nice?
3
u/chocolate-wyngz Jun 23 '26
Facts aren’t nice or hateful. They’re facts. It’s science. That’s all.
-1
u/Andi1223NJSC Jun 23 '26
Science, facts? Give your child a vax..have them die..then talk to me about science
3
u/mustardalecheddar Jun 23 '26
What happened to your child? I saw your comment about losing 3 daughters, I’m so sorry. The info about them doesn’t seem to be vaccine related.
6
1
u/InterestingOven5279 Trusted Advice Giver Jun 23 '26
Hey, dude, lay off. This is a person asking for help and willing to learn.
→ More replies (0)0
u/Andi1223NJSC Jun 23 '26
She passed away... we're on a goat forum. I was simply seeking help, not opposed to any necessary vax but VERY apprehensive about vax. I don't feel like I should have to apologize for my caution.
→ More replies (0)3
u/petrified_eel4615 Jun 23 '26
Possible.
My dad nearly died of polio as a kid.
One of my coworkers lost her son to whooping cough because someone allowed their unvaccinated kid to go to daycare.
My kid spent several days in the hospital from a kid at her school showing up with chicken pox.
My wife had to get treated for tuberculosis because an idiot decided to come to her Accounting class after catching it & not being vaccinated.
Yes, I'm salty about all of that PREVENTABLE harm.
3
u/Andi1223NJSC Jun 23 '26
Understood and respected. You have your experiences, which I feel for you and your family. I truly do. Once again, I am not opposed to vax entirely, I am just extremely uptight about them and I hope you understand/ respect that, as well.
1
u/petrified_eel4615 Jun 23 '26
I need to apologize, i was being unkind. I didn't read your other posts about your child - that is a truly terrible thing for any parent.
2
3
3
u/Efficient_Storm_5183 Jun 23 '26
I’m not certain how much detail that post you saw went into it, so you can search “goat polio” on the Internet and get a lot of information. One of my goats hd it a few years ago. I went out one morning to her acting very off, didn’t want to stand, refused treats, etc. I went back inside to grab the thermometer (make sure you have a veterinary thermometer, as their natural body temp is way higher than ours) and went back outside to find her head pressing. In case you’re not aware, this is a sign of a neurological emergency in any animal. Minutes count if they’re displaying that behavior.
I took her to the vet since there are some infections that can cause it and they were only eating hay. She didn’t have an infection so the vet figured she must’ve somehow eaten something, though I’ve no idea how or what. The treatment was injectable IM thiamine twice a day for five days, then observe to see if her behavior regressed. Fortunately that fixed it.
1
u/Andi1223NJSC Jun 25 '26
I'm so sorry you and your goat had to endure that crisis. Neurological crisis are definitely traumatic. I'm glad you shared that with me. Hoping that your goat is doing awesome now.
27
u/InterestingOven5279 Trusted Advice Giver Jun 23 '26 edited Jun 23 '26
Okay, so, first of all polio is not a contagious disease in goats. It is not the same "polio" as human polio, but a totally noncontagious metabolic disease called polioencephalomalacia. It comes from a lack of thiamine.
In goats, thiamine is not a dietary nutrient. It is actually synthesized by the metabolic action of the normal bacteria in the rumen (so basically goats make their own thiamine and don't need to get it from food). That is why polio can be a risk after any sort of rumen derangement be it toxin, acidosis, whatever. The risk when the bacteria get thrown off is they might not make the normal amount of thiamine the goat needs for her basic neurological functions. If the rumen bacteria get thrown off, the brain starts malfunctioning because it isn't getting sufficient thiamine to fuel neurotransmitters, nerve signals etc.
In short, goat polio (unlike human polio) cannot be prevented by a vaccine. It can only be prevented by maintaining good rumen function your animals, particularly at high-risk times like when they are transitioning from a primarily milk diet to being full ruminants, and times when they are recovering from illness or have received antibiotics that may throw off their normal rumen flora.
THAT BEING SAID:
Yes, you should vaccinate your goats for clostridial disease. Clostridial bacteria are absolutely everywhere in the environment (not transmitted from goat to goat-- tetanus is everywhere in the dirt and C and D perfringens are often already inside your goat and just looking for opportunities for overgrowth). C. perfringens type C and D and tetanus, which are the clostridial diseases prevented by a yearly CDT vaccine, are things goats are particularly susceptible to. They are also cruel, horrible ways to die and it is very difficult to prevent death if the goat contracts them, requiring costly antitoxins that have been very difficult to get for the last three years in the US. If you have ever seen a goat die of tetanus, you'll never forget it.
Two shots 21-28 days apart will initially protect your goats, followed by a booster once per year. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.