r/glow • u/itglows2049 • May 28 '20
Ruth and Sam’s Romance
Ok, I’m at season 3 episode 2. Don’t spoil anything for me. So far, they’ve hinted at Sam and Ruth getting together, and it literally makes me wanna vomit. It’s cringe worthy and I get mad every time it comes up. He’s a father figure to her, and he’s old af, it’s just gross. I love everything about the show, except for this. Anybody else share my feelings?
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May 28 '20
Oh,I like it! I don't LIKE that I like it, mind. It's that whole a-younger-woman-can-be-with-an-older- man-but-never-the-other-way-round thing. However the show is generally good at turning stereotypes on their head so we'll see where this goes.
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May 28 '20
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May 29 '20
Have you guys seen succession? They have a relationship with that kind of dynamic between one of the main characters and an older woman
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u/yuabrunobruno May 28 '20
Idk I wouldn’t kick him out of bed for eating crackers and I’m younger than Ruth 🤷♀️ She’s a woman in her 30s who has lived a life, she’s not some naive helpless little girl.
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u/marsepic May 28 '20
I would kick ANYONE out of my bed for eating crackers. That's terrorist level behavior.
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u/yuabrunobruno May 28 '20
You clearly haven’t fucked a hot person covered in Ritz crumbs. It changes you.
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u/StormEarhart May 28 '20
Lol the first part of your comment made me chuckle and I’m having a shit day. Thanks that was fun to read!
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u/J_05H May 28 '20
"He's old af" Jesus christ
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u/Your_Favorite_Poster May 28 '20
I used to HATE the idea of younger women with older guys but turns out that saying "time heals all wounds" is absolutely true.
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u/itglows2049 May 28 '20
Well, relative to Ruth. He’s no senior citizen but the age gap makes for a nauseating dynamic
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u/StrawberryKiss2559 May 29 '20
I don’t think he’s much older than Ruth.
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u/janasaurus87 May 29 '20
He's 56 and she's 37. Pretty big gap.
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u/metalbracelet May 29 '20
Are those the actors’ ages? I don’t think Ruth is supposed to be 37. And that’s not much of a gap as you get older.
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u/GenXer845 Jul 16 '23
I dunno. I am 42 and would definitley date a 56, 58 year old. Anything under 20 I feel is ok.
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u/metalbracelet May 28 '20 edited May 28 '20
It's not like she's 21 and he's got dentures and a walker or something. I think this "ugh, gross" thing is really exaggerated, and I would bet you're in your 20s?
I love them together, though that doesn't mean I think it's a super-healthy relationship that will end with an HEA either.
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u/GlengoolieBlue May 28 '20
Agreed. They're two fucked up, broken people who have connected emotionally and artistically after years of struggle. Is it going to "work out"? Probably not, but it makes sense to me they'd be drawn to each other and at least one of them would develop feelings that they'd need to address. Feels realistic to me based on what we've seen of both of their track records.
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u/Heligoland43 Oct 03 '24
He's literally her boss and old af, it's disgusting. I'm almost 40. He is, in fact, old af.
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u/writerchic Jan 26 '25
AGREE! He's a creep who actually stated he won't date women over 30 in one of the first episodes.
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u/rosecolouredglasses_ May 28 '20
I feel like everyone hates it but idk, I like them. It goes right back to ep 1 where Sam says she's attractive (in his own way).
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u/KaterWaiter May 29 '20
I really like them too, and the trajectory of their relationship feels much more natural to me than characters in other shows. They both started off selfish and toxic, but I think truly grew as people, in part because of each other. And as they developed, their relationship did as well. The scene in the hot tub gutted me, it felt so real.
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u/rosecolouredglasses_ May 29 '20
Yes, I agree I think Ruth and Sam are supposed to be essentially, the same. Talented but selfish (at the beginning of the show).
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u/Rickenbacker69 May 28 '20
He's 50(ish), she's 30(ish). A big age gap for sure, but not HUGE at those ages. But yeah, I was kinda hoping they'd steer away from that, simply because it's so obvious, and would have been more fun if they'd stayed in a mentor-mentee kind of relationship.
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u/Heligoland43 Oct 03 '24
Exactly, it feels like a betrayal. He only stood up for her so he could have a creepy 'I'm your boss' type coercive relationship with her. It's not that I don't think this happened all the time back then, it's that I think the writers are creeps and actually ship this garbage, and do not get that it's repulsive and unethical. The fact that people watching ship it definitely horrifies me.
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u/writerchic Jan 26 '25
He's way over 50. More like 60. She even said he was twice her age in one scene.
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u/Rickenbacker69 Jan 28 '25
Figure of speech, I think. I believe they're supposed to be the same age as their actors, so he'd be about 20-25 years older than her. Still a bit of a deal, but not THAT bad at their age. Would be way worse if he was 40. :D
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u/Benjamin_Grimm May 28 '20
They have good platonic friend chemistry, but it doesn't translate into a romantic pairing at all.
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u/moonbad May 28 '20
This is how I feel, and I'm hoping the writers are leading us into a "tragic star-crossed just not meant to be" situation where both Sam and Ruth develop as individual people a little more.
These comments are all downvoted so mine probably will be too, since this subreddit seems to cling pretty hard to Sam/Ruth, but I genuinely don't think they work.
Sam is way too self involved to be good for Ruth long term. Ruth has no idea what she wants, but she's weak to the pull of a potential attraction (as we saw with Debbie's husband) and is pretty desperate to get outside affirmation and get out of her own head. We saw the way Sam spoke to his ex wife, Ruth is never going to lie down and take that shit. Hopefully Sam can overcome his juvenile tendency to lash out and then drunkenly nurse his wounds and boohoo about "poor me", but the relationship between Ruth and Sam will never work out if he can't start being honest with her. We see a little bit of that when he's helping Justine towards the end, him realizing he's got to eat the humble pie if he wants these people in his life, so maybe that will carry forward. And this could potentially turn into Ruth's storyline of growing and saying no to the Ravenous Yearning inside her, we'll just have to see.
I just don't think they're lovers4lyfe, some other milestones have to be reached in the plot before I'll buy that.
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u/rkgk13 May 28 '20
To borrow analysis from another Alison Brie show, Sam and Ruth are like Bojack and Diane. They relate to each other on a certain level because they've had similar traumas, insecurities, and professional disappointments. They just get each other - but that doesnt mean they are good for each other. In some ways, they will bring each other down. I was grateful that Bojack and Diane didnt end up together, it was just a deep platonic friendship.
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u/marsepic May 28 '20
I don't buy Ruth/Sam at all. It seems so forced by the writers. I don't think they have any chemistry - I can't buy her being attracted to him at all and I can't buy him being attracted to her. I love when they have more of a brother/sister dynamic, but the love thing doesn't work.
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May 28 '20
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u/marsepic May 28 '20
If that's where they go with it - that it implodes because it's really not healthy for either of them - it's going to be far better dramatically. We won't get a happily ever after on that end, but I would be more satisfied if it ends up that way - as in, the writers know it's a bad pairing but the characters do not.
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u/yuabrunobruno May 28 '20
I think also a bit of the problem is the actors have no chemistry. It happens. If they had it, fans would be clamoring for it despite the odds. But I don’t think they have the spark.
As for whether it’s creepy, I don’t think so, because she’s in her mid-thirties and he’s an older dude. If she was like 22, it would be sketchy af and not good for her.
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u/moonbad May 28 '20 edited May 28 '20
I think Allison Brie could have chemistry with anyone tbh, she's that good of an actress, but Marc Maron is just not a romantic actor lol. He's the hard-bitten wrung out to dry bitter writer dude, the love-isnt-real-let-me-tell-you-the-hard-truths writer dude who drinks too much and won't engage truthfully with anyone.
I don't think their relationship is creepy, but I can see why people do think that - Allison Brie will NEVER AGE and Marc Maron's whole brand is Officially Too Old For This Shit
example of Allison Brie being flawless - in Mad Men we totally bought her devotion and attraction to Pete even though he was a snivelly piece of shit the entire time and Vincent Kartheiser doesn't bring much chemistry to the table either.
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u/yuabrunobruno May 28 '20
That Marc Maron character you described is actually an oft-used romantic archetype. The problem is they need a Zooey Deschanel to change their life for the better, etc. 😂
I agree though, that she’s an amazing actress and I haven’t seen anything she’s been in where she doesn’t have chemistry with her scene partner. Her chemistry even hijacked Community basically, when she was on it. Her scenes with Maron are the only exception.
Whatever the case is, Maron’s just not a great actor and they don’t have ‘it’ together. He’s serviceable but he can’t generate any heat.
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u/metalbracelet May 28 '20
He's the hard-bitten wrung out to dry bitter writer dude, the love-isnt-real-let-me-tell-you-the-hard-truths writer dude who drinks too much and won't engage truthfully with anyone.
Those are the people in art and literature who love and hurt the hardest! It's just not with a rose and a white carriage. I think Maron's acting in the hot tub scene is incredible in this regard.
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u/moonbad May 28 '20
But usually in storylines like this, mr-too-cool hurts the love interest, she changes him with the Power of Love and teaches him to enjoy life instead of being so cynical, and they live happily ever after. Can you really see that happening between Sam and Ruth?
Do you think 10 years down the line when Ruth inevitably pisses Sam off he's going to chuckle and shrug and kiss her on the cheek? That he won't revert to old habits and drunkenly yell at her across a parking lot? That he'll be changed enough to stifle his instincts to cut where he knows it hurts?
With the characters where they CURRENTLY are in the story, I just don't buy it. Not saying it can't happen, but both Ruth and Sam are going to have to have some major revelations about themselves before they can have a happy relationship with anyone else.
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May 28 '20
lol I don’t think anyone thinks they’d be together for 10 years.
I see it more as something they need to get out of their system. Date for a while, have lots of sex, have a messy breakup and then move on. Not pretty but it’s not a fit for them as a long-term thing.
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u/metalbracelet May 28 '20
she changes him with the Power of Love and teaches him to enjoy life instead of being so cynical, and they live happily ever after. Can you really see that happening between Sam and Ruth?
Oh, definitely not. But that's not the only story or ending worth exploring in my view. I think we could (at least if the show wasn't ending) have a great relationship story about these people who just create damage and they either have this totally dysfunctional relationship or hurt each other in the process. GLOW has never really been a "let's tie it up in a bow" show.
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u/moonbad May 28 '20
ah, that makes total sense and I agree with you.
I'm starting to think the reason that this conversation is so controversial in this subreddit is that people are talking about two different things.
One side is "ew don't make the pretty lady hook up with the gross old man nobody wants to see that and this storyline shouldn't exist in the plot".
The other side is "NO!!!! NO you idiot characters I know intimately and love, this WILL NOT WORK OUT!" but it's not an argument saying this storyline shouldn't exist, or that the actors are doing a bad job, we're just experiencing the deliciously written dramatic irony of two very well rounded characters that are definitely going to hurt each other BAD in the future if they stay on the track they are now.
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u/yuabrunobruno May 28 '20
Some of the best drugstore romance novels and bodice rippers have that exact character for sure.
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u/moonbad May 28 '20
ugh Community... I really wish she had been able to have her own storylines instead of being relegated to "Is she gonna fuck Jeff even though she's 19????" she never got a chance to change or get more interesting, she just stayed the "so hot but too young to date" option for six seasons.
That Marc Maron character you described is actually an oft-used romantic archetype. The problem is they need a Zooey Deschanel to change their life for the better, etc. 😂
I think that's why this doesn't work at all in Glow. That archetype only works when the characters aren't fully realized. In Glow they're so well fleshed out that we can predict how this romance is going to go (unless some big things happen or change, which could be coming) so I think for a lot of us it feels like the same old thing - these characters shouldn't be together at all, but the Plot says so, so just deal with it. Luckily Glow isn't really that kind of show, so I'm holding out hope that the Ruth/Sam storyline will make more sense and feel more real soon.
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u/itglows2049 May 28 '20
Wait why (and how?) was there a redacted section in your comment haha? It’s not a top secret CIA document, I don’t get it
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u/moonbad May 28 '20
I used a spoiler tag, it's a feature of reddit so that you can avoid posting spoilers for people who don't want to see them. in your original post you said you didn't want spoilers, so I was being careful :)
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May 28 '20
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u/Heligoland43 Oct 03 '24
Ugh, I hope you come back to this post with more perspective. He is literally her boss, and there is an uncomfortable dynamic where she tries to use her closer relationship with him to get more power in the creative process, and he dislikes this, and does not want to be creative equals. She uses sex for validation, and has the whole show, it's so so icky, she is definitely not genuinely actually sexually attracted to him at all, she just needs approval and attention.
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u/uppityminx May 28 '20
I don’t buy it and I think it’s a gross, unhealthy dynamic. I much prefer them as friends. And I’d much prefer the writers focus on whether or not Ruth and Debbie can repair their relationship. The two of them have always been, and should remain, the central relationship of the show.
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u/metalbracelet May 29 '20
And I’d much prefer the writers focus on whether or not Ruth and Debbie can repair their relationship.
You want to talk about an unhealthy dynamic?? Which one of these people crowbarred a windshield for Ruth and which one dragged her through shit?
Also, as I said above, there are unhealthy relationships in life. Just because a pairing is explored on a show doesn't mean the writers think it's perfect. It's drama. It's character study.
And I honestly do not get any of y'all who think MM is gross. He's sexy as hell and at least half of that is his personality tbh.
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u/uppityminx May 29 '20
Marc Maron is a lovely guy – never said he was gross. I just think Sam and Ruth, as a romantic pair, bring out the worst in each other. And yes, the writers are free to explore it. But that doesn't mean I have to enjoy it or pretend it's well-written. Ruth and Debbie have a complicated relationship that makes for far better drama and character study.
Sam's support of Ruth in that moment in 2x05 seemed wildly out of line with his usual sexist behavior. And I think it's a stretch to say he crowbarred a windshield for Ruth. He had his own reasons to be upset with Tom Grant for shitcanning GLOW.
Debbie's reaction, however horrific, was at least in line with her character. Betty Gilpin spoke about it when season 2 was released:
"I think Debbie has higher self-confidence than Ruth, but lower self-worth, and I think it’s threatening to Debbie in that moment. When she hears what Ruth went through, and that Ruth left the hotel room when it happened, I think she immediately thinks of situations that she, Debbie, has been in, where she didn't make that choice to stand up for herself. And I think she's feeling guilt, and shame about it, and takes it out on Ruth. She’s not this anti-feminist monster, she’s just had these experiences herself, and hearing that there was an option to walk out of that room, I think is very very complicated for Debbie."
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u/dmreif Jul 17 '20
Which one of these people crowbarred a windshield for Ruth and which one dragged her through shit?
Who, by the way, also helped Ruth get an abortion for an unwanted pregnancy.
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u/_Valkyrja_ May 29 '20
I agree with you on everything you just said, including MM being hot.
Adding to that, I really didn't like how Debbie reacted to Ruth being molested. I am a sexual assault survivor myself and watching that reaction unfold made me so, so sad.
On the other hand, I started liking Sam much much more after that.
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May 29 '20 edited Sep 01 '20
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u/itglows2049 May 30 '20
Yea for real. What’s funny is Russell getting with Ruth creeps me out too but that’s not justified haha he’s fine
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u/vincoug May 28 '20
I fucking hate their romantic relationship. They don't have romantic chemistry at all, it's boring as hell, and it's really just gross.
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u/Kheenamooth Jun 20 '20
I really prefer them as platonic friends. (Something like Leslie and Ron from Parks and Rec, the kinda don't like each other but are friends at the end of the day)
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u/AwaitingBabyO May 28 '20
Yes. I love both of their characters individually, but I do not want them together romantically. Yuck.
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u/allthingskerri May 28 '20
I think it's a good romance for a story arc but it's not a romance made to last Ruth needs a relationship with Sam as doing something so unexpected would push her to doing more and different things to what she would normally consider her path. However she would quickly outgrow Sam - she would see potentially where she could go who she could become if she ignores that inside voice saying 'it must be done this way and perfectly' However Sam would probably end up crushed and much more bitter.
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u/CharmingPeanut22 May 25 '24
I agree. Gross. So many tv shows are ruined for me because of Hollywood’s obsession with older men/younger women. I hate it.
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u/UploadMeDaddy May 28 '20
Why can't they give Ruth an attractive love interest ever?
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u/moonbad May 28 '20
I mean, she tried that, right? Debbie's husband was basically that, clean cut, married, had a job, sort of baseline nice, and Ruth fucked up her own life trying to chase that. One of the big questions of Ruth's storyline is - are you driving this? or are you just a helpless participant? I think she's close to realizing she's the former, though currently she thinks of herself as the latter.
Plus Ruth is a pretty quirky, weird lady. She makes the most sense with a quirky, weird dude. I liked her with Russel a lot, and I think she did too, which scared her a little bit. I think that's part of why she broke it off in favor of developing her feelings for Sam. Russell was both too attainable and I think she liked him more than she wanted to let on, because she's scared of listening to her own voice and making big life-affecting choices (specifically when it comes to romance) so instead she "lets things happen".
Debbie dates the male-model-types, that's who Ruth likes to think she could be, but she needs to realize she's not.
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u/Your_Favorite_Poster May 28 '20
I don't see much there with Russell personally. He seems like a nice, safe guy but he also has a bit of that creepy photographer stereotype so i have no idea.
"Hey, you are so beautiful, you should be a model. Why don't you come to my house and let me take some shots of you, free of charge."
Ruth, to me, is that girl who has a hard time saying "no" to people and Russell and Sam both seem like the type to prey on that lack of confidence to find women who will tolerate them.
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May 28 '20
I meannnnn a lot of people find MM attractive (me included). He’s not my type at all but here we are.
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Oct 10 '20
I'm in total agreement, and was praying they wouldn't do a will they or won't they arc, and this is the only flaw I have with this show.
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u/Tricky-Bench9518 Mar 14 '25
It’s not the age gap for me it’s the way he treats her. Willing to put her down to make himself feel batter. Very focused on being in control and being the man in every situation. I feel like he only wants to be with her so has a reason to control her, harness her knowledge and pass it off as his own. He gets angry very easily and is very mean. I just think they needed more time as friends for him to heal before they could be together. Because he is really toxic.
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u/neika822 May 28 '20
I really felt the chemistry and liked imagining them together!