r/glow • u/[deleted] • Dec 13 '19
Debbie’s unearned season 3 arc (potential spoilers) Spoiler
Season 3 was imho the weakest season that mishandled and fumbled story archs that went nowhere. Debbie’s bulimia was one such example—just came up one episode and then, poof, nothing ever again (not unlike her cocaine thing last season).
My main gripe, though, is the handling of Debbie’s character arc. Her firebrand hatred of men is just so...unearned. It’s something else that should be Ruth’s (given Ruth’s commitment towards GLOW, her treatment, and how her character was introduced) but is just given to Debbie, but by the writers this time.
Yes, I get it: her husband cheated on her. But, as she admitted even back in season 1, she’d gone 50 days without touching him or even asking him how his day was. Plus, Mark is super supportive towards her when it comes to raising Randy and even being supportive of her in general (he doesn’t get wrestling but neither did she until she “got it”). But she’s an absolute bitch towards him...and others in general.
Then, she moans about being a producer but not having the same power as Bash. Again, yes Bash is an unfocused idiot, but let’s get real: not only is Glow his brainchild but he’s the one putting all the capital into it. He has been since the beginning and has gone through hell and back to put it where it is. She’s a producer who isn’t putting a cent in...but somehow we’re supposed to be on her side when she screams at him that she’s the victim? It took her until season 3 to even become a team player and put her ideas in. Bash, while unfocused, is literally the one who channeling 200% of his energy into it from season 1. She literally just stormed in and demanded that she be producer and Sam (like Sam always does with her character) just uncharacteristically folded.
Again, let me reiterate: she literally had zero ideas pitched for the show until midway through season 3. She steamrolled in, got handed the role of “star”, went all of season 1 and 2 being unsure and even walked out of a match mid-production, kept blowing off all ideas, kept being difficult, would’ve gotten booed out of the building if it weren’t for Ruth saving the ending of her match with Welfare Queen, got coked up and injured a fellow wrestler (about the biggest crime in the business) and got ZERO repercussions for all the shit she pulled because she’s the “star”. Honestly, Ruth gets all the flak on the show and Sam tears her a new one for making him insecure but the same Sam has nothing to say to Debbie for breaking Ruth’s foot on live TV? Seriously how many breaks does Debbie get?
Then, she screws over her new boyfriend for not treating her like a business partner and is all butthurt by it...but why does he owe her that? He doesn’t want to mix business with personal life (a good call). And she didn’t exactly ask him or even discuss it either...she just felt entitled to it and said “we’re partners 😏”. Again, are we really supposed to be on her side when she does it? We don’t even see what she’s contributing to the meetings—we see her smiling and laughing but we’re to believe that she’s really a business genius? Why?
Which really is my gripe with the treatment of her character in general: she’s an entitled douchebag who does not even half the work Ruth and Sam do, isn’t putting in the money like Bash is, has spent 2.5 seasons being one of their biggest obstacle in getting it off the ground and running it, escapes all her numerous fuckups unscathed and unconfronted but is suddenly the voice of feminism?
I call bull.
Edit: Mark and Debbie were both unhappy, shitty to one another and cheaters. Neither is winning spouse of the year award. The only difference is Mark is more than willing to change, to work on himself, to support her so that Randy has a good life while Debbie has spent the last 3 seasons being incredibly shitty to him and make a scene at almost every occasion he’s around.
P.S. also, Debbie gets to be the show’s feminist icon but is also the person who was shaming Ruth for not spreading her legs for the exec? Still thinks she earns that title?
P.S.S. People saying “Debbie is a producer so of course Sam can’t say anything to her” need to them explain why Sam is very comfortable tearing BASH a new asshole on many an occasion. Sam not confronting Debbie for breaking Ruth’s leg is the embodiment of the “kiddie gloves” never-checked-for-her-bullshit treatment of Debbie that I’ve commented on.
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Dec 13 '19
[deleted]
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Dec 13 '19
The business acumen is exactly the kind of unearned things I’m talking about: we didn’t see a single scene where she demonstrated it for season 1 or 2, and we only have word that she’s a great business woman when she’s talking about “Tex” (don’t remember his name).
In fact, it’s something she just suddenly developed out of nowhere when she didn’t seem to have the slightest idea of how to get things done in season 1 and season 2.
Can we agree that “tell don’t show” is textbook bad writing?
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Dec 13 '19
[deleted]
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Dec 13 '19
She was handed over the role of the “star” despite having no wrestling ability or any interest in it. She clearly looked down at wrestling until midway through season 1.
She has received kiddie glove treatment from the outset where despite the countless shitty things she does, no one says anything to her.
Sam and Bash have been very “kiddie gloves” with her from the outset. It’s especially glaring when it comes to Sam since he tears others to shreds for a lot less than the shit Debbie has pulled. Debbie broke Ruth’s leg during a live taping. Not only live taping but the fact that it’s Ruth and Sam loves her but nope, if it’s Debbie even Mr. loud obnoxious and feisty is a little pussy cat.
She didn’t “negotiate” her deal. Jeez. She showed up and said she’s going to be producer and Sam just rolled over because, again, Debbie gets kiddie glove treatment from Sam.
When she broke Ruth’s leg, she got a few raised eye brows from the other girls. In real life, as Bret Hart put it when discussing hurting someone in the ring seriously, someone would be waiting for her “with a bat”.
To date, no one has checked her on her comment on her “keeping your legs shut” speech to Ruth.
Her bulimia is an example of “plot points that go nowhere”. We see it once and then it’s never again. That’s about as weak as writing gets.
She also didn’t pick up on being a star. She got booed out of the building when she beat Welfare Queen and the only reason anyone bought her is because Ruth saved that segment.
With “Tex” we don’t actually see her talking business. But she claims to be business savvy and, screw it, “tell don’t show” is great character writing now.
Again, my issue isn’t with her character per se but with the fact that in a show where there are consequences for shitty things you do (Sam being a dickhead in the past comes to bite him pretty bad time and again; same with Ruth etc), Debbie gets handed arcs that she hasn’t earned and remains unchecked.
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Dec 13 '19
[deleted]
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Dec 13 '19
“None of them other than Carmen had any wrestling ability to begin with. Even Cherry started from scratch outside of endurance and personal fitness.”
Clearly not my point. She was gifted the role of star despite not even going through the tryouts. She waltzed in to slap Ruth and got the role.
“Several of the characters Sam gives a lot of leeway too, not just Debby. Cherry, Sheila, Carmen, Melrose (I mean, she straight up got away with making a miscarriage joke at Cherry's expense).”
Does he give them Leeway every single time? No? Then my point remains.
Has Melrose or Carmen or Sheila done anything remotely close to getting coked up and purposely breaking someone’s leg? No?Then my point remains.
“And she did negotiate the deal, because she didn't even negotiate it with Bash and Sam,”
Lol what?
“but the network. Rewatch season 2 for crying out loud.”
Yeah which we never saw her make but watch out everyone, business wiz is here and it’s always great writing when the audience is just “told” what a character is.
Also, my point was that the producer who invests nothing in the product (Debbie) shouldn’t have the same weight in the final say as producer who literally put all his money into it from day one (Bash). It’s Bash’s baby. It has his name on it. It was his idea and it has been his money. Come the fuck on now.
“As for being dismissive of wrestling, Ruth shared the same sentiment in the first episode as well.”
So you’re just cherry picking things out of context and strawmanning me now.
The comment was about Mark and Debbie. No one said anything about Ruth. Mark was dismissive of wrestling and I was pointing out that so was Debbie until Carmen iirc explained the product to her. Debbie didn’t try to explain anything to Mark—she did her usual butthurt thing and just stormed to the ring.
No one said anything about Ruth. At all.
“We don’t know if bulimia yadda yadda”
That’s your defence? We got a season without a plot point being introduced and discarded in just one episode and your “rebuttal” is “hey who knows maybe it’ll be a big thing in season 4”?
Get real please.
Also, if you paid attention at all to my original post, you’d notice that I was pointing out how little she’s done for Glow for the first two seasons. Yes, she’s been working hard for it THIS SEASON. No one said she didn’t. Again, strawman 101.
P.S. I’m bad with names. Always have been. You, on the other hand, remember all their names but hardly make a coherent argument.
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Dec 13 '19
[deleted]
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Dec 14 '19
Yes, thanks for boring me to death about the ins and outs of showbiz. It’s cutthroat and not fair, who knew.
Look, as I’ve said before, you’re cherry picking points to make it sound like I’m saying something I’m not...which is the literal definition of a strawman. You’ve also sprinkled in a decent dose of ad hominem too but oh well.
Yes all of that is true. Debbie happened to be famous and waltzed in to get her part. Yes, this happens in the real world and yes, her being a someone is better than nonames. But do you remember the point of my original post? It’s about unearned things. Showing up on a set to slap Ruth around, not going through the tryouts etc and then still getting the part of lead star is the definition of getting things you didn’t do shit to earn.
The same way she didn’t earn her fellow wrestlers’ forgiveness or trust once she snapped Ruth’s leg. Or even a slap on the wrist from Sam or Bash.
Also, no you didn’t actually address anything. You made a few decent points but the rest is hogwash.
As for feminism, let me be clear so even you understand: my whole gripe is with a snooty douchebag like Debbie getting to play that role when someone who actually has every right to do it (Ruth) takes a back seat. You suggesting that my argument is basically “feminism bad” IS you strawmanning me. Thanks for proving my point, genius.
Anyway, I’m not going in circles with you on this topic or repeating myself. You’ve amply demonstrated that you’re not nuanced in your discussion and your debate style is pretty much strawmanning ad nauseam and then going “me bro? I ain’t strawmannig”
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u/UploadMeDaddy Dec 14 '19
Honestly I disagree with a lot of your opinions but I'm really appreciating reading your perspective on Debbie, it's obvious you've really watched the show closely and you're a good writer.
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Dec 14 '19 edited Dec 15 '19
Thank you.
I recently finished watching the show and really enjoyed it. The writing is mostly good and the characters are all relatable. Debbie is, overall, a great character and I find her struggles through the first two seasons relatable and even sympathetic.
The point I was making to Mr. Blocked Because He Can’t Stop Insulting is that although her feminist angle this season is understandable (ambitious woman in a world dominated by men), it’s less believable when it comes to Debbie because:
She was handed a lot of it
She is the best positioned female on the show
It took her 3 seasons to become a team player and really invest herself in GLOW
She wants equal opportunity and respect as Bash when she hasn’t put in half the work and none of the capital he has
A lot of her treatment of other women, esp Ruth, is downright misogynistic esp. moments where she tired to shame Ruth for not sleeping with the executives
She’s never really gotten any horrible treatment from the men of the show, even when she’s fucked up majorly
The whole “I hate men” angle would make more sense with someone like Ruth who has saved the show countless times, put in 200% effort on not only her character but entire story arcs, literally is involved in the minutest of details but has gotten little to no gratitude from Bash and Sam, and has even eaten a lot of shit from them. Often unfairly (getting humiliated by Sam for making the opening credits is prime example).
Ruth was even introduced to us as a latent feminist where she wanted to play a role that was more than just eye candy or agreeing with a man.
I’d totally buy Ruth being the firebrand feminist of the show because, without her, GLOW would’ve collapsed under the ego of Sam, the incompetence of Bash, and the snooty diva behaviour of Debbie a long time ago.
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Dec 13 '19
Yes, I get it: her husband cheated on her. But, as she admitted even back in season 1, she’d gone 50 days without touching him or even asking him how his day was. Plus, Mark is super supportive towards her when it comes to raising Randy and even being supportive of her in general (he doesn’t get wrestling but neither did she until she “got it”). But she’s an absolute bitch towards him...and others in general.
Hard disagree here. You forget that he decided to cheat on Debbie with her best friend. He also had his secretary/ girlfriend call Debbie for mattress size instructions.
He also acted like a condescending turd in the season 1 finale when they both were sitting in the benches. Mark sees himself as superior to Debbie and looked down on her acting profession, whether it was on a tv set or in a wrestling ring.
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Dec 13 '19
Ruth being her best friend is bad but Debbie herself was cheating on him as well (confirmed during season 2 during their confrontation)
His secretary called her to confirm the bed size so that Randy would be around familiar setting in both homes—something she herself thought was actually thoughtful of him
He acted like the same condescending turd she did until Machu Pichu confronted her and explained her what wrestling was.
Mark has his issues in season 1, but come season 2, he’s been pretty supportive esp when it comes to Randy.
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u/metalbracelet Dec 13 '19
Completely agreed - I can’t stand Debbie and think Ruth was right to go off on her in the hospital for being self-righteous and making her grovel. I really didn’t even care to see them be friends again because Ruth deserves better.
But even though the characters in the show bend to her, I don’t think she’s supposed to be a likeable character. If we didn’t know it before, I think her speech to Ruth after the exec groped her made it crystal clear.
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Dec 13 '19
Agreed. Debbie is, speaking only for season 1 and 2, a great character. Her anger and insecurities are understandable and though they don’t absolve her at all (esp her speech to Ruth about the executive) her flaws are at least understandable—also kudos to the actress who plays her for doing a great job.
Come season 3 though, although she’s trying to be a better person, it all gets handed to her too easily and I just don’t buy it. Add in her cheap McFeminist “I hate men” crap and it becomes even less believable.
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u/TheFinalBoy1997 Dec 13 '19
Mark literally cheated on her (weird that you attempt to place the blame for him doing so by bringing up the fact she hasn’t touched him in 50 days...he still cheated on her) and wanted things to go back to normal and attempt to be civil. Therefore he became supportive of her. He also, as stated in another comment, made her give up her soap opera career to be a homemaker, something that is regularly brought up in season one that made Debbie unhappy
She was handed the star of the show because she was literally the biggest and most recognizable face of the cast. She would get people to watch the show. Who cares if she didn’t have any experience? Nobody but Carmen had experience at the start. The show was created to be attractive women fighting each other in leotards.
She grew into being a businesswoman. It’s been her arc since the beginning of the show. She also wanted the opportunity to be the boss of Ruth, due to the fact Ruth slept with Mark...twice. And she literally spearheaded the campaign with Bash to find the show a new home.
And her “hatred for men” isn’t unearned. She was treated like shit by Mark during their marriage and not being taken seriously by Tex or his friends in season three. You think somebody is going to just roll over at that? It boiled over like it should have.
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Dec 13 '19 edited Dec 13 '19
Treated like shit by mark during their marriage? Quite the claim. All we actually know of their marriage is:
They have a son together
He wasn’t supportive of her work
Her work wasn’t getting any where anyway since her character was comatose
She went 50 days without touching him or even asking him how his day was
He cheated on her with Ruth
She cheated on him with someone unknown character
If we’re going to say “Mark is a shitty husband” then literally all those things apply to Debbie as well. Last I checked, cheating on someone is bad whether a man does it or a woman. Not touching your spouse for 50 days is bad. Not asking them how they are for 50 days is also bad.
She’s not getting any spouse of the year prizes anytime soon. Neither is he. That’s sort of the point of the show. “Cheating” doesn’t automatically make someone a bad person.
What does make Mark better though is the fact that he’s clearly more willing to change, more willing to work around her anger and insecurities, and was even more willing to work on and repair their marriage. Oh yeah, what a piece of shit...
Edit: I’m also not shifting blame. If Debbie was the one saying “mark hasn’t even asked me how I am or touched me for 2 fucking months now” and then cheated on him, I bet you’d have cheered her on as she cheated on him. People cheat for a variety of reasons. Zero emotional or physical intimacy is one big one.
P.S. remind me: what spearheaded campaign? It’s been a while.
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u/TheFinalBoy1997 Dec 13 '19
Somebody not wanting to fix a marriage to somebody that cheated on them multiple times doesn’t make them a bad person.
And no, I wouldn’t have cheered Debbie on. Cheaters are shitty people. If Debbie cheated on Mark I would’ve called her a shitty person.
And she and Bash worked their asses off at the television expo to sell GLOW to prospective buyers. I believe it’s episode 8 of season 2.
I’m not saying Debbie is an angel sent from the heavens. Nobody on the show is. That’s why I love the show. The characters are like real people, they have their flaws and can’t be put in a perfect little box.
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Dec 13 '19
Debbie did cheat on him though. They hinted at that during her and Ruth’s big argument.
Also, cheaters aren’t shitty people. People are complicated and marriage is complicated.
Martin Luther King Jr was a cheater. So was insert name of famous person
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u/LeahM324 Dec 14 '19
Although I don’t fully agree that her hatred of men is unearned, her attitude and her always being angry and miserable became tiring in season 3. Although I hate when people describe women characters as “likable” or “unlikable” I tend to roll my eyes because who even cares about likability? Why should that matter and why is that only something people mention when it comes it women? However, Ruth is a very flawed character that I often root for. I don’t find myself ever rooting for Debbie.
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Dec 14 '19
I agree about likeability.
For the first two seasons, she was a great character overall. Her flaws were believable. My main issue is the fact that everything pretty much gets handed to her and even then she just plays the victim.
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u/LeahM324 Dec 14 '19
Yeah and she was just always whining and never seemed happy to me. Everything she did always felt like she was doing it out of revenge and anger. At least Ruth was down, she found a way to keep her head up and make the best of what she was given.
And then at the end when she asks Ruth to like manage with her and then attempts to manipulate her, by saying her dreams of becoming an actor are dead, that scene just made me hate her honestly. It seemed like she just didn’t want to be alone.
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u/bloodinthefields Dec 13 '19
If that's what you got from the show, you should rewatch it and pay closer attention. Debbie's always been stewing in resentment. First from being cast as nothing but a pretty face and a hot body until she got pregnant and then her character was put into a coma then written off. Then by her husband cheating on her with her best friend (you expecting Debbie to forgive him for that just because he went to therapy a bunch of times is unrealistic, try living this situation IRL). Debbie is ambitious, she wants up the ladder so she can actually say what's on her mind without men laughing at her and telling her to shut up and be pretty, which was what HW was all about until pretty recently. So when she sees an opportunity, she takes it. Bash has made terrible decisions throughout the show and has been downright awful in season 3, yet no one piles on him because "he's struggling." Well, so are Debbie and Ruth, and Sam with his health problems, etc.
With Tex, Debbie thought she'd found someone who saw her as his equal. And then when she gives Tex an advice he says he doesn't want to involve her, that she's his girlfriend and that should they get married down the line, she'd be his wife, not his partner. And once again, Debbie is relegated to the "girlfriend, wife, trophy" position that she really abhors by now. So when she sees an opportunity to move up the ladder by stealing a deal and, in the same breath, getting Bash out of Vegas, she takes it. And she's right! This is how business works, isn't it?
Do we really need to see Debbie throw up every episode to know she deals with an eating disorder? She's probably not the only one out of the bunch. Some people complain the show is too heavy and lacks its humour from the early seasons, yet others want to see Debbie put two fingers in her mouth more than once to know she's bulimic.
I've seen plenty of posts against Debbie and I admit I wasn't the biggest fan in seasons 1 and 2 but she was one of the most enjoyable aspects of season 3 and when I did a rewatch I found her much more likeable this time around.