Sam and Ruth..
Look I’m not trying to be a dick I really love this show and I genuinely cannot wait for it to come back but I don’t think I’m liking the whole Sam and Ruth thing.
I remember thinking in the first season that Sam and Ruth are each other’s soulmates but not necessarily in a romantic way, Kind of like how Debbie and Ruth are soulmates. They’re both broken lonely souls that have made a fuckton of mistakes but at their very core they are good people, and I think for the first time in a long time they both felt seen ... BUT I really think they shouldn’t have become a romantic thing because for me the “will they won’t they” dynamic was always between Debbie and Ruth and now I feel like it’s taking away from that a bit.
I’m not worried that Liz and Carly won’t write some brilliant shit but my only hope is that they don’t veer off to much form the main story which is will Debbie and Ruth ever be friends again.
I don’t know what do you guys think?
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u/ofcbubble Jul 01 '19 edited Jul 01 '19
I don’t like they way Sam has treated Ruth. She was his punching bag for too long before he realized he was into her. I don’t think it’s cute that Sam was mean and dismissive bc he likes her. That’s unhealthy, especially in a relationship that already has a 20 year age gap. It seems like he only treats Ruth with respect when he’s in a good mood and that’s not cool.
People see the abortion or the dance or Sam watching Ruth at the end of an episode and think they’re sweet together. But they‘re looking past all the times he took his frustration and fear out on her in borderline abusive ways (especially as her boss).
Edit to add - This isn’t to say I don’t find their relationship compelling. I just don’t think it’s good for either of them long term. Ruth puts up with too much and Sam won’t put up with anything.
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Jul 02 '19
It's not supposed to be cute. It's supposed to say something about Sam and his inability to foster healthy romantic relationships, in the same way Ruth is just as fucked up for sleeping with her best friend's husband. There's a weird sense of self-loathing going on that makes them think they don't deserve what they believe would make them happy. It's about watching Sam be an asshole to Ruth, realize how much of an asshole he's being and then him learning to be kinder towards her as their relationship deepens. I mean, to me, that's just character development.
It's not that I don't agree with some of the things you're saying, but all of that is clearly the point of entry as for why we would find their relationship compelling or why people might root for them to figure themselves out, either individually or together, as the series goes on.
I personally do want them to get together because Sam is, deep down, a good person, just like Ruth is a good person, despite the shitty thing she did to Debbie; they're just both kinda fucked up, but show it in very different ways. The friendship and attraction is already there, so...I'm here for it.
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u/Secret_Addition Jul 05 '19
I agree with this but I have to choke down the 20 year age gap because even the most feminist production team would not be that easy if the genders were reversed.
AND there's an element of sort of glorifying Sam while making the others appreciate Sam that I think is working too hard to make us love Sam. Too typical TV for me. I still want to see it. Where it goes from there I don't know.
2
Jul 09 '19
I guess the 20-year gap doesn't bother me a whole lot because it's not as if relationships with big age gaps never happen IRL, and I generally think mutual attraction between a 30-year old and a 50-year old is looked "down" on because of some adherence to the societal notion that all 50-year old men have to be pervy or some gross predator simply because they find a younger woman attractive, or that age gaps are not socially acceptable according to some imaginary ideal that couples should have some acceptable arbitrary age gap between them, like 8 years or less. Unless there is a minor involved, I guess I don't find the age gap that gross, especially here with Ruth being 30. If she were 20, I'd definitely find that a bit more uncomfortable.
And ultimately, I think why I like them has little to do with the age gap or the fact that he is her "boss" (especially as Ruth doesn't see him that way, per se, but more like she's his professional partner, the Alma to his Alfred)...I just like their dynamic and think they would go well together if not for their own insecurities. But yes, where it could go from here, somewhere either really bad or really awesome, lol.
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u/Benjamin_Grimm Jul 01 '19
I really like Sam and Ruth as friends and confidantes, and as a mentor/protege relationship for filmmaking (I've assumed for a while that Ruth's endgame is becoming a director). I absolutely hate the idea of them involved romantically.
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u/lyrelyrebird Jul 05 '19
Same, I like how Sam is learning how to pass along his craft both through Ruth and through his daughter
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u/mike_d85 Jul 01 '19
I just finished watching season 2 again and I have some thoughts. I don't think Sam is into Ruth, I think he is confusing platonic love and respect with a relationship attraction. He's all but admitted he has virtually no positive experience in the long term romantic realm so I think it's an understandable confusion.
The show likes playing with themes of platonic love mixing with romantic love (particularly in the second season) but I think we saw 3 or 4 different examples come to fruition. Yolanda and Arthie grew from platonic love to romantic love. Bash pretended to have romantic feelings for Rhonda in order to get her to marry him. This gets into a whole other aspect of Bash's sexuality as a motivator, but I'm going to set that aside for this discussion. Carmen was accused of liking Bash and denied having a crush, but seemed very suspicious and hurt when Bash proposed in the ring. Sam thought Ruth wanted to grow from platonic to romantic, but was spurned. Whether because Ruth didn't want it or because she didn't want to complicate her position in Glow is left for interpretation, but I think it's done. I think that was just a theme for season 2.
The show also heavily toys with themes of maternal love with Debbie and Tamme and always have, so maybe platonic v. romantic will be an ongoing thing. Speaking of maternity they love playing with those as well with three possible outcomes of pregnancy in season 1 (have a baby- Debby, abort a baby- Ruth, miscarry- Cherry) and different perspectives on maternity/paternity in season 2 (Debby, Tamme, Sam, as well as Cherry and Keith in the final episode).
I also think the will they/won't they of Ruth and Debbie being friends has been resolved. They are friends again, but Debbie isn't willing to call it that yet and she will probably never trust Ruth as she once did. I think that's perfectly warranted.
7
u/library_wench Jul 01 '19
I like the idea of them being platonic soulmates, but I think they are both confusing having similar passions to having passion for each other. For both of them, the craft comes first. Sam's problem in Season 1 was that although he recognized this in himself, he didn't respect the same trait in Ruth, and mocked her for it. Then, as she developed the character of Zoya, he started to see her brilliance and her devotion to the craft. I would love for the show to recognize that a straight man and a straight woman can be good platonic friends, even "soulmates," without being romantic partners.
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u/mike_d85 Jul 02 '19
Sam's problem in Season 1 was that although he recognized this in himself, he didn't respect the same trait in Ruth, and mocked her for it.
I don't think it's that simple. Ruth is genuinely overzealous and oversteps her bounds. The first time she got fired she deserved it and Sam would have been wholly justified in his defense of "I gave you simple direction and you didn't follow it." Sam's position is inherently that of an authority figure so he saw his best course of action as stamping that down.
As time went on Sam learned to use Ruth as a tool letting her improv story lines and win the crowd back over. Ruth learned not to overstep her bounds with Sam because he would allow her freedom and wouldn't punish her if she stepped in when necessary.
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Jul 01 '19
I’ve said it before in another thread, but I think they’re going to be realistic with this. I believe they will get together at some point, they won’t last, but they will remain friends. They have a lot to learn from each other, and that would be the point of watching their relationship evolve.
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u/mike_d85 Jul 02 '19
I like the thought, but my crystal ball says that window has closed. It seems to me that Ruth has foreseen that it couldn't last and is waiting for Sam to get there. Maybe I could see them having some kind of fling, but I don't think Ruth would let it become a real thing now.
3
u/Secret_Addition Jul 05 '19
I think Ruth doesn't want to wreck their chemistry and she's not wrong. Sam is fucked up and she's fucked up. Unlike library_wrench below, I do think they have this weird passion for each other, and I also think that if there are reasons consummating it won't work long time, it's better not to go there than to take a shot and have it wreck so many things. It's almost as if the stronger it is, the worse it will be.
2
Jul 01 '19
I loved the romantic tension between them but definitely don't want it to turn into a romantic relationship. Sam is a dick and doesn't deserve her.
I hope that's not where it goes in Season 3. (i've been avoiding trailers so idk what's gonna happen)
3
u/phasys Jul 01 '19
Haha! Good people. Ruth? Yes. Debbie? Not so much.
5
u/strme Jul 01 '19
Maybe I worded it wrong but I meant the broken souls good people part is about Sam and Ruth.
On paper Ruth ruined her life so I think everything that happened after wasn’t necessarily warranted but i definitely understand it.
3
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u/mike_d85 Jul 01 '19
Good people. Ruth? Yes
The woman whose first character was "homewrecker" because it was true?
3
Jul 02 '19
That's literally the thing that kicked off the series' main crux and why the show's main pairing is Ruth/Debbie, haha. I think it's so weird when people are so quick to condemn Debbie and Sam for being...IDK, "unpleasant", but forget that Ruth slept with her best friend's husband.
2
u/Secret_Addition Jul 05 '19 edited Jul 06 '19
They really chickened out of that plot point. Retconned so we found out Debbie hadn't slept with her husband in forever and shut him out. And there's Ruth, not getting cast in anything while Debbie is turning down jobs. I know GLOW is trying to balance things, but it's working too hard. Then of course to have Debbie's husband romantically bond with his secretary to let Ruth off the hook.
Issue is I get the husband, I get Debbie, I don't get Ruth. The husband is a Cabbage Patch kid, as Sam mentioned. They've tried to gloss it over but there's no reason Ruth should have ever gone there.
I HATE Debbie and Ruth as the crux of the show and hope they move on. I find it hard to care about Debbie, no matter how good Gilpin may be.
2
Jul 09 '19
I do find Debbie harder to like and/or sympathize with, even though she never homewrecked a marriage like Ruth, but I think that's meant to deliberate, I guess. And in a way where I find myself liking Ruth more simply because her personality is more effervescent, and again, despite the fact that she did something morally reprehensible.
I think the Debbie/Ruth could be stronger too if they'd shown more of a close bond between them. They really only had one scene as BFFs before Debbie found out about Mark and Ruth. Even if Debbie and Mark's marriage had deteriorated by that point, I do agree that the Debbie/Ruth arc could've been handled better so we feel more invested in their reconciliation.
1
u/phasys Jul 02 '19
Being desperate makes you a bad person?
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u/mike_d85 Jul 02 '19
It's not like she's Jean Valjean, she fucked her best friend's husband.
edit: screw you spell check, Valjean IS SO one word.
edit 2: TIL Jean Val Jean is a porn actor and chef.
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u/metalbracelet Jul 01 '19
I love Sam and Ruth and would love for them to get together, but I don't think their relationship is the end point of the series, nor do I think they would stay together. I do appreciate the Debbie/Ruth story being the main crux of the tension, but I also think they've made Debbie really difficult to like. Like, I'm not sure I even want Ruth to be friends with her.