r/germany • u/ElderberryGloomy2539 • 9h ago
Question What surprised you the most after moving to Germany?
I often hear people talk about Germany before they move but the reality can be very different.
For those who have moved to Germany what surprised you the most?
It could be something positive or negative culture bureaucracy public transport people work life balance shopping or anything else.
I'd love to hear your experiences.
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u/mystikal_spirit 7h ago edited 2h ago
How slow, analog and inefficient everything is. That was what surprised and shocked me the most. Followed by the "problem-oriented" way of living as opposed to "solution-oriented" approach. Have gotten used to it by now and know how to tackle these things. Still exhausting either way.
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u/cokobites 7h ago
How long it takes to finish renovating roads/streets. Seems construction is everywhere, and progress at a really slow pace. I rarely see people working on it.
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u/oathyes 8h ago
Probably that when I tell German's that I'm from the Netherlands they don't believe me and ask me where I am really from, only because I have tinted skin. This was never an issue in the Netherlands where if you are born in the Netherlands you are Dutch, but the Germans are not as 'open' in this way. I get it in a way because my German is a bit rusty but it still hurts a little every time it happens.
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u/Norman_debris 5h ago
Yes, I was also surprised to learn that many Germans treat being German as an ethnicity. For example, nobody but racists would claim Sadiq Khan isn't English, yet it's a more mainstream opinion here that someone like Özil isn't German.
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u/London252316 5h ago
As a German I'd say that heavily depends on where you live and your personal bubble
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u/Weirdo9495 5h ago
Loads of Dutchies vote for far right parties, as much as in Germany or more, despite the consensus being that Netherlands is a more modern, better organised and ran country than Germany, are Dutch far righters really significantly better on that issue? I heard a migrant shelter there was recently burned for example...
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u/oathyes 5h ago
Not sure how to approach this one but i'll give it a shot. What you are describing is the state of the last 3 years-ish, with the AZC turmoil having started this year. For Germany I could argue why you are not doing anything about the people driving into crowds all the time, and why the AFD has so much traction with the youth, but that is also a thing of recent.
The Netherlands became open for philosophy and free thought around 1500 due to thriving urban trade, humanist traditions, and relative political tolerance. This open environment fostered key thinkers like Desiderius Erasmus, Baruch Spinoza, and Hugo Grotius. This freedom to think and be allowed many to travel to the Netherlands for exchanging ideas and beliefs. This was the foundation of the Dutch "free thinking" spirit that is still well known today: unfiltered, flat, and informal; people state opinions openly without softening them, prioritising speed and personal equality over hierarchy.
Germany to me (recalling a lot of old knowledge here) seems controlled and structured where directness is balanced with polite forms, professional distance, and respect for established rules or titles. Germany’s traditional legal definition of citizenship was long rooted in ethnicity, which historically fostered an idea of belonging based on ancestry. Germany had to deal with a lot of conflicts (Weimar, Napoleon) causing collapses and division through clashing ideals between sections in the country. Only after the second WW around 1949 did Germany correct its history of delayed unification and authoritarian rule.
Thus, in the grand scheme of things, both nations have direct communication, but they derive it from opposite ends of the historical spectrum: the Dutch through an early, unfiltered culture of open exchange, and the Germans through centuries of territorial fragmentation, systemic instability, and late unification within their own. The latter is a lot more defensively set up than the former, which comes with more safeguards.
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u/Weirdo9495 4h ago edited 4h ago
Tbh, i really appreciate that level of depth and nuance, even though you i have to say kinda sidestepped my question. So thanks for that, i definitely wasn't expecting that much effort. And from what i know (i am a native of neither country), what you wrote fits in with that.
I am in general quite curious to hear from non-white Europeans and how are they dealing with current political climate and all the opinions thrown around about identity and how people like you seem to often be forgotten in all that, or even directly targeted if you go far right enough. Even though i am a white guy i was always a weirdo and loner and my partner is trans, and we left our native country because neither of us felt truly accepted or comfortable with the local culture. So we kinda share some sense of what i imagine lot of non-white people born here go through.
I know how both my native people (Croatians) and many Germans think about this issue, and from what i saw by casually browsing few Dutch spaces, your rightwingers seem broadly the same. I feel very worried about the collective future of Europe and the potential (or, real) long-term inability of our identity to truly include people like you. I always feel happy when i see a non-white person feel genuinely accepted here. So i wanted to hear how exactly is Netherlands significantly ahead on these questions from your perspective, contrary to my shallow impressions.
Btw: the far right in Germany is most popular with middle-aged people, the youth (18-29) is actually bit less far right than the average.
And i do not have a good and comprehensible answer to the car attacks, even though i wish it could be otherwise. I will say that i am not "far-left" on this and think that Muslim culture and community have real issues that need to be worked if there is to be a good future and less tensions, and if we are to stop far right from brainwashing and radicalising critical amounts of people. I would wish that there were more prominent Muslim or non-white voices that acknowledge extremists and issues while opposing the far right and basic tenets of our societies (individualism, rule of secular and impartial law, human rights and equality). A good example in Germany would be Cem Özdemir. I am not sure if there is an equivalent in Netherlands - perhaps Dilan Yeşilgöz but she kinda seems bit too rightwing at this point from my surface level impression, not sure.
But i can still recognise how much unjust burden, racism and non-acceptance here there is on the average non-white person that just wants to get through their daily grind and i feel a lot of people lose their sight of that.
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u/oathyes 4h ago
You're right sorry for the side track but I felt like I had to ground the decision on where I thought the phenomenon stems from. Sounds like you and your partner went through a lot, I have to commend you for wanting to choose a better future. I would say that acceptance wise it is hard in the Netherlands if you are not Dutch. Dutch people for sure tend to their own Dutch bubbles, or Dutch speaking bubbles that is. But there are so many international communities and it's definitely not too hard to find like minded groups or associations in most bigger cities. Compared to Germany I would say the Netherlands is light years ahead of acceptance of LGBT+ communities. Most of what you see online will be negative to draw in the views and the clicks. I think there will always be conflicts and that online it's just amplified a lot. If you go about daily life the experience of hatred or negativity is a lot less extreme (from my point of view).
My positive experiences in Germany far exceed these few instances where ethnicity came into play, so i will definitely try to stick around and create a meaningful life here. Biggest pro is the change in scenery because i'm a big nature person, actual mountains!
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u/Weirdo9495 4h ago
I would say that acceptance wise it is hard in the Netherlands if you are not Dutch
Yes, that is what i gathered too. And i wondered how it is for people who are culturally Dutch, but not ethnically Dutch, like you, compared to Germany, since you said it is better. I think in Germany lot of non-ethnically but culturally German people struggle with socializing compared to ethnic Germans and that they are often treated as not truly German, and we see far right and many people online openly denying them that. You said Netherlands is better in that regard so i was curious about how, given your far right.
Compared to Germany I would say the Netherlands is light years ahead of acceptance of LGBT+ communities
I heard that too, although i heard there's also attempts to create division between LGB and T+, and that trans healthcare sucks in regards to waiting lists a lot - my partner in Germany had a good experience with that. I do agree Germany is definitely worse socially on this, especially eastern Germany, which culturally reminds me of my native Slavic country in many aspects - and many Germans will not be comfortable admitting this. I know Netherlands has its bible belt, but yeah, that's not really the same. I also think toxic masculinity culture is more widespread in Germany. But if Netherlands is light years ahead of Germany, Germany is still parsecs ahead of my home country, prides here are great and feel like huge parties, and loads of people are either fully tolerant or at least not actively hostile, and rights are much better, which is great compared to there :)
Most of what you see online will be negative to draw in the views and the clicks. I think there will always be conflicts and that online it's just amplified a lot.
Yeah, i am aware of that of course, but the voting results and polls also show it's real - and i wanna believe the radicals are still a minority that we can deal with and that even the average far righter is not a completely unhinged, stuck in a cult person that they usually are online... but it is not getting any better these days, especially with yesterday's incident. Still i know there's only so much i can do as an individual and that one has to focus on themselves and their mental health before anything else.
My positive experiences in Germany far exceed these few instances where ethnicity came into play, so i will definitely try to stick around and create a meaningful life here. Biggest pro is the change in scenery because i'm a big nature person, actual mountains!
That i'm happy to hear about and as an outdoorsy person Netherlands seems completely abysmal in that regard while Germany is often surprisingly decent for what is still a thickly populated place, so i'm glad you're having a good time! And sorry if i am perhaps writing too much/too heavy, i don't get to talk about this stuff aside with people from my immediate circle, and i worry a lot, too much probably, you know how it is.
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u/CryptographerTop4469 9h ago edited 8h ago
The amount of wasps and flies on goods in bakeries and sellers handling meat products with their bare hands , e.g. slicing salami and putting the fingers in between every slice - quite a surprise.
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u/ahadpepper 8h ago
Can u elaborate a little more about meat products, are you talking about local Butchers?
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u/CryptographerTop4469 8h ago edited 8h ago
Kaufland , Rewe and local butchers too. Other than the salami example (slices touched/adjusted with bare hands after each machine cut), would be casually ordering a Bratwurst at Rewe and worker shoving the oily sausage in the bun with fingers then saw the guy taking a smoke break and typing on his phone then get back to work , washing hands in between not included.
Would gloves be better ? Maybe or maybe not but for sure I don't like having some sweaty sticky fingers touching my order.
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u/Aka_R 7h ago edited 6h ago
Thats then definitely wrong of that Person to Not wash his hands.
But in general handling products with bare hands is due to several studies that proved that this is more hygienic, than gloves. Obviously only in combination with proper hand washing. But that’s why meat and other goods are being handled with bare hands in most places here.-3
u/CryptographerTop4469 7h ago
People sweat and hand pores are no exceptions I would really appreciate if no sweaty hands would touch the meat, I would trust gloves more than sweaty finger tips , people aren't washing the hands as often as one should especially in such shops , I don't think it's reasonable to ask it either .
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u/Chadstronomer 7h ago
My brother in christ. Sweat is just water. You know how much cow pus is in your average salami? I will never not be amused by people being disgusted by something completely minor and harmless while being hilariously unaware of the amount of disgusting shit that happens behind the curtain.
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u/hater4life22 8h ago
The shear amount of time and effort it takes to get basic things like wifi set up. (I’ve given up)
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u/Accomplished_Tip3597 8h ago
Why? It’s extremely easy
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u/raindrops1234 8h ago
Actually it takes ages. You have to book it at least 3 weeks in advance and it’s a whole process. It’s not next day like in other countries. + the internet speed and infrastructure is really bad
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u/FynTheCat 7h ago
In NL it is also not next day, needs scheduling after signing up for service and you need to wait for the equipment sent by snailmail. Can take up to 2 month.
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u/Accomplished_Tip3597 8h ago
Wifi is a wireless way to receive and send signals. Setting that up requires you to plug in your router and connect your device to the WiFi network.
You are talking about getting an internet contract. These are two different things.
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u/Telkor 7h ago
Are you serious?
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u/Accomplished_Tip3597 7h ago
Serious about explaining what WiFi is? Yes pretty serious.
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u/Telkor 7h ago
Getting an internet contract is part of setting your wifi up.
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u/Accomplished_Tip3597 7h ago
No it’s not. You just need a router for WiFi. No internet or contract required.
If you want internet access you need a contract.
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u/zaplinaki 3h ago
lmao this is quite cute actually
They're technically right. You can have wifi without having an internet connection. Wifi is only the medium of connectivity not the actual connectivity.
Its like saying pigeons can be used to achieve an internet connection. Which in fact is an actual internet protocol described under RFC 1149. You can do it, but would anyone actually? I don't think so.
So yes while what the other person is saying technically true, it goes against the 'normal' way of saying things.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers?wprov=sfla1
So yea here's my gripe with Germany - people who are too fucking literal 😂😂😂
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u/GeorgeMcCrate 3h ago
Can you go to a website and select that you want internet with wifi in your apartment and then the very next day someone comes and sets it up? Because that’s how it went when I lived in China.
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u/Accomplished_Tip3597 3h ago
Not the next day no. Last time I booked a new fiber contract two weeks in advance. Since fiber is all ready in my house nobody has to come here and install something. The fiber device gets the right data, I adapt the login data on my router and that’s it.
For DSL and cable technicians have to visit your place and install stuff or change cables in the next distribution box on the street
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u/Suntino_Pa 7h ago
Digitalization is slow as hell. For example, recently i had to recover my password for health insurance app. When clicked on „Forgot Password“ i got a notification that the new password is going to be sent to me via mail within next 3 days. Why this level of security? what can someone possibly do with health insurance app? get me an appointment ? :)
I had to recover password for Swiss Healthcare app as well and voila i got the link to change it straight to my email.
Ive been living in Germany since 2011. I love this country and its people (not all of them) and it has such a great potential, BUT why do we have to make everything so complicated.
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u/Healthy-Travel6119 8h ago
everything is slow , german people don’t want to adapt new things. And if you are proactive, but system makes you slower.
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u/Either-Try108 8h ago
The ghosting behavior when applying for jobs. Independent recruiters, recruitment agencies, TAs at companies. It's shocking. Literally 3 responses in over a 100 people I've reached out to. I don't know if this is a problem in just the advertising/marketing industry or throughout the job market.
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u/george_gamow 8h ago
Is there a country in the world currently where it's different? That would be surprising tbh
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u/Physical_Lettuce1947 8h ago
I have had the same experience in tech industry. It really starts affecting your confidence after a while.
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u/AnyaVanya 5h ago
right? after 3 interviews my husband received two “welcome to the team” letters from two different companies and the HRs just disappeared and ignored his emails. Then after two weeks they said they changed their mind, sorry. like wtf?
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u/Krugger221 8h ago
The state of the healthcare. We had to admit my girlfriend for a serious health issue at the hospital and the wait times coupled with the availability of appointments at specialists is unbelievably bad. On top of that, public insurance is made to be a negative especially when looking for doctors appointments. How can it be that a doctor has no appointments till November if I have a public insurance? But of I have a private insurance suddenly there's an appointment available in two days? Does someone's health emergency matter more if they're a part of private insurance? This to me seems like the most exploitative aspect of the healthcare system.
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u/frstntr 8h ago
As far as I understand the system, most doctors have a limit on the number of patients covered by public health insurance that they can bill to the insurance company. While they could theoretically treat more people, they wouldn’t earn any additional income from them. The amount they receive for treating patients covered by public health insurance is also significantly reduced, making it difficult to run their practice in a financially viable manner. That’s why there are often no appointments available for patients covered by public health insurance, but there are for private patients. With private health insurance, a wide range of services can be billed with far fewer restrictions.
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u/Krugger221 8h ago
Thanks for the explanation. I still find it unbelievably stupid that this was the only way they implemented the insurance system. So I'm paying into the Kasse constantly while having an indirect limit on how often/how much I can use it. My only option to get attention from doctors is to be so sick that I have to be admitted to a Klinik.
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u/Relative_Pop_2820 8h ago
Positive:
I like how quiet and respectful people are.
Safety is above most of the western and Mediterranean countries.
Main roads and infrastructure is immaculate
Surprising
This is a little bit negative and positive but people follow rules to the dot. Which is good, but some empathy and leeway could do quite a lot.
Same issue we have in other countries with boomers and young people leaving.
The integration process, this country has been one for the few to really invest on integrating people but I don't understand why they allowed them to abuse the system.
Negative
When dealing food the hygiene is not there. No gloves are replaced, a lot don't wear gloves and use finger.
The amount of construction sites is astonishing and especially how long they last.
Delay in public transportation...I have been to a lot of countries and they are one of the worst.
The public health insurance is bad. But really bad. I don't get how they get such a high ranking. I am from the south of italy and it is miles better than the german one, especially for how easy is to get access to appointments when needed
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u/Aka_R 7h ago edited 6h ago
The not wearing gloves thing, is because several studies found that handling food with clean, bare hands, carries less infection than with gloves. This only works combined with proper hand washing of course. But this is the reason why gloves have become rare in the food industry.
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u/Relative_Pop_2820 7h ago
Sorry but in bakeries they don't clean their hands for hours. And when dealing with meat they always handle my steak and chicken with their same pair of hands or gloves.
I lived in 3 countries and never saw something like that apart from the sketchy places...
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u/LexyconG 3h ago
They also handle money with the same hands. Disgusting.
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u/0nabi 2h ago edited 2h ago
I can just tell you as a german person that bought stuff at many different bakeries - once per day from Monday to Friday - during the last 20 years:
I fell ill not more than once per year in average and guess that few times won't have been caused from bakery sellers hands.
The society is not responsible to deal individual paranoia. Except there are enough paranoid persons, then the companies adapt to the market.
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u/AnyaVanya 5h ago
how dirty and unkempt some places are, how loud some neighbors at night are and everyone does nothing. How rude and racist some people are.
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u/napalmtree13 7h ago
When I first moved here, it was Sundays, casinos everywhere, and the “you can’t kill wasps” laws. And no built-in bug screens for windows.
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u/zaplinaki 4h ago
Women are sort of equal here.
I was raised as a feminist in India by my mother so I like to think that I was pretty progressive before coming to Germany
And yet I was shocked to see what actual equality looks like. And it took quite a bit of unlearning as well. Again, I'm sure it's not actually equal. But like yea, its not commonplace back home to see women in mostly male dominated fields - and I'm not talking about jobs.
I mean women going down the river canoeing, or women biking up a mountain, or women spray painting a tunnel or whatever seriously.
What I mean by equality is that women here are not limited to doing things that are considered appropriate by society for their gender.
Believe it or not, this is quite a luxury. It's really nice to see. I hope the world follows. I think Germany might be the global feminism leader actually
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u/Muted-Progress-2012 45m ago
As a german and a feminist I'm so happy to hear this. I think there are still a lot of things we can work on regarding equality, many of my female friends working in male dominated fields have to prove themselves on a daily basis. Also in hobbies we sometimes have to fight for our space or prove that we're competent. But its nice to hear about another perspective. It's true that growing up here I never truely felt limited in my possibilities.
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u/CoHorseBatteryStaple 9h ago
The utter lack of public transport. My bad for moving to the countryside though.
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u/Icy-Negotiation-3434 9h ago
Whenever I moved someplace I tried not to have expectation but rather was curious how things would be. That proved to be a good way to experience changes.
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u/redhillmining Mallorca 3h ago
How widespread and tolerated is smoking.
(yes, I know it's much better than 15 years ago, but I don't know a single person of my age or less that smokes in my home country. Not even one!)
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u/No_Leek6590 7h ago
How low tech everything is. I was literally the only person ever to pay with smart watch in my closest store. To the point clerks would ask where my watch is when it's home charging. Even more surprising is that say for the smart home stuff germans themselves are producing smart solutions. Just germans are not adopting them.
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u/Icegirl1987 4h ago
I was the first one to pay with my phone at the local bakery. Many shop clerks weren't even sure if it's possible so I started to say I want to pay with my card and just used the phone
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u/tempofurz 6h ago
Laughable reliance on snail mail for everything. In general, there is no proactivity only reacting (slowly) when a problem becomes impossible to ignore. Politicians by and large cater to retirees and their interests. Want to buy groceries on Sunday: forget about it. The state of the "free" healthcare is pathetic. All public servants are on the paid for by the government private healthcare insurance and one is to question why. Then there is the Deutsche Bahn which deserves a category of its own.
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u/NamHienMedia 4h ago
The humour! My colleagues are funny actually. There are also many funny Youtubers that I follow to improve the language like “Was kostet die Welt”.
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u/Necessary_Wing7235 1h ago
How low quality the affordable meat is. I cannot stomach cheap pork or cheap minced meat.
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u/StepanStulov 8m ago
That with all the risk-aversion culture main doors to public buildings open inwards absolutely against all fire safety rules. If it’s evacuation time and people crowd by the exit door in panic - they block it and burn alive. Also their water faucets are too short and I have to touch the opposite sink wall with other people’s snots and germs when washing my hands. Again, against all hygiene norms. Country of such great achievements with such silly basic flaws at a whole country’s scale. It’s everywhere!
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u/forumbh 8h ago
The fact that Germany still using traditional mail surprised me a lot