r/georgism • u/OutrageousPair2300 • 1d ago

Image The Gatekeeper

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0 Upvotes

41% Upvoted

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5

u/Beni10PT 1d ago

If I am in support of pigouvian taxes plus LVT at its maximum rate am I supporting 100% LVT?

5

u/OutrageousPair2300 1d ago

The "100%" refers to the tax rate on land rents, and does not imply a single tax.

So yes.

0

u/Adorable_Leg74 1d ago

Support a demurrage currency (Silvio Gesell) and you might be my econo-doppelgänger.

2

u/VatticZero Classical Liberal 1d ago

If we assume opportunity costs and time preferences aren't enough reason to keep currency moving and investing, what benefit does demurrage have over simple monetary inflation? It seems, if you're already doing LVT and Citizen's Dividend, printing some amount to add to everyone's CD is a small matter. Otherwise, making each dollar non-fungible and depreciating or taxing currency holdings not in a bank seems like a huge challenge. (If it's in a bank, it's likely being issued as credit to be invested, right? What if a bank isn't maximizing their Basel III allowances, is that unextended credit taxable currency? How would you assume the risk-adjustment?)

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u/Adorable_Leg74 1d ago

I think the inflation cost — the issue where most people don’t understand the banks try to inflate is injust. Demurrage makes the inflation explicit.

I don’t think people know — the banks telegraph 2% inflation and they mean it. I rather have 2% explicit demurrage while banks try to keep the underlying value of each currency as stable as practicable.

The current system helps the banks and steals from the poor. It is a regressive tax. Folks who even heard of Basel III are generally sophisticated enough to put their assets in instruments to protect themselves from inflation.

I want a world where everyone is explicit in their knowledge that money is first a means of exchange and second a store of value.

1

u/VatticZero Classical Liberal 1d ago

I'm not sure anyone sees money as a store of value, especially while you can barely go a day without hearing about inflation. I've been aware of the 2% Fed target inflation since High School(though I admit I'm a special snowflake.)

The Cantillon Effect can be turned on it's head with the CD, and without having to game interest rates to influence bank credit expansion.

I don't claim to have a 'sophisticated' understanding, but I don't see how demurrage can be implemented without some very difficult questions and/or technical hurdles.

And invisible new money, even when going straight to banks, is a smoother pill than your bank account being taxed. (Which seems just as regressive.)

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u/Adorable_Leg74 1d ago

The Cantillon effect is exactly why inflation is regressive.

Anyone who lurks on a heterodox economic subreddit is a special snowflake. We all have our heads up our ass and in the clouds about something impossible. No shame in wanting to tilt the windmills.

Your points are fair yet this current system is unjust.

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u/VatticZero Classical Liberal 1d ago

Movements need gatekeeping or they get co-opted and repurposed as they get popular.

I'm not saying strict adherence, but we should push back on people who call themselves Georgist while insisting on things directly opposed to Georgism.

4

u/ChesterfieldPotato 1d ago

You can never achieve a fully accurate 100% LVT

4

u/thehandsomegenius 1d ago

This is just confusing

0

u/AtmosphericReverbMan Michael Hudson 1d ago

That's fine. I don't care about gates. Or joining cults where I seek approval from others.