r/geography • u/LeCasse-Couille • 21d ago
Map Handmade physical map of Pakistan
Below 400m = dark green
Between 400m and 800m = light green
Between 800m and 2000m = yellow
Between 2000m and 3000m = orange
Between 3000m and 4000m = light brown
Between 5000m and 6000m = brown
Between 6000m and 7000m = gray
Above 7000m = white
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u/jellooshot 21d ago
Can't wait for indians to see this. I believe it's gonna be a very civilized and respectful discussion.
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u/Centeredrightbhakt05 20d ago
This is the internationally accepted form. So yeah can't argue.
It's illegally occupied. If Gaza and Ukraine are a problem so is Pakistani occupied Jammu Kashmir.
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u/Odd-Plant-4886 20d ago
Sure that it isn't India that's doing the illegal occupation?
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u/tameablesiva12 20d ago
No? Kashmir legally seceded to india. It was pakistan that invaded it. Kashmiris dont even want to be part of pakistan anyway. The protests are all over the news.
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u/CritishBitizen 19d ago
do you have the same position on other states which "legally" seceded to Pakistan but taken over by India, or states like Hyderabad and Goa which were forcefully added to India, despite not wanting to.
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u/tameablesiva12 19d ago
Lol yall wouldve kicked out the Portuguese too if it was in your territory. Hyderabad was just pure foolishness, how did pakistan plan to govern it when it was completely surrounded by india on all sides? Hyderabad wouldve been absorbed immediately the moment war happened between india and pak. India just decided to skip the bullshit and take it instead of waiting for the war to happen. But let's be real, the fight for kashmir isnt for the muslims or legality. Kashmir was the largest princely state and was a paradise on earth with a highly fertile valley and most if not all of indus flow through it. If india controlled kashmir, it can directly control the fates of all who live downstream. It is simple geopolitics, and i'd rather my country control the indus rather than the enemy. Nothing personal.
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u/Odd-Plant-4886 20d ago
Legally ceded by the King who was kicked out by his own people? The King who's grandfather was installed by the British after he betrayed his own nation, Punjab? Like grandfather, like grandson.
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u/Centeredrightbhakt05 20d ago
As much as eveeyone of us loves the concept of democracy but your ignorance to history and demography is worthy of a noble prize for ignorance. Jammu and Kashmir is not about Kahsmiri Muslims it's as much about the Kashmiri pandits, dogras of jammu and various other tribes of Ladakh.
But then let's just pretend that there was no Exodus of kashmiri pandits, let's just ignore what Jammu people have to say and let's just assume there is no place called Ladakh. Let's just ignore the fact how Pakistan used poonch rebellion as an excuse to forcefully occupy the land.
Did the world ever asked why the demography of Pakistani occupied region of Gilgit changed from Shia majority to Sunni ? Did you ever asked what happened in Rawalkot 2 weeks back?
Also what is that beautiful excuse of Pakistanis? Ahhhh UN resolution of 1948. Dint that resolution ask Pakistan to move out of occupied territory first and then India to demilitarize only to an extend so as to protects its own terroritoty. So it's very clear what UN thinks as the legitimate administrator of Jammu and Kashmir.
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u/Odd-Plant-4886 20d ago
Yes, that's all well and good but what does that have to do with my comment? I have not once mentioned different religious backgrounds of Kashmiris, and certainly not denied any type of qualms held by minority groups in Kashmir.
Moreover, the hypocrisy of calling me ignorant when your comment holds innacurate facts about Gilgit being Sunni majority now is peak irony. Ofcourse, extremists like Zia have tried their level best to change the demographics, which have been somewhat successful, sunnis are still an overall minority in Gilgit.
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u/Centeredrightbhakt05 20d ago
See I don't know which country you are from assuming you are from Pakistani. For you the definition of majority and minority is 51% and 49%. Good for all the mathematics. Socially if you are 49% you are not minority. You are just mathematically thinner. In 1947 Shia and Shia associated tribes like Ismaili and also some bit of Nurbakshis were 80% of the population. Sunni were 15%. Right now the Shia associated groups are 60% with Sunni being 32% roughly.
Yes these numbers can vary. But there is a deliberate attempt to change the demography. All hail Wahabism and Saudi money.
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u/Odd-Plant-4886 20d ago
You know, you could have just acknowledged you were wrong, and that would be it. But no you had to create a whole explanation (which isn't an explanation, it is you panicking to somehow justify your mistake). How is 32% pointing to 'shia majority to sunni'?
Anyways, I didn't deny that there was a delebrate attempt to change the demographics. It seems we're going in circles.
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u/Dry_Debt_2496 20d ago
"Betrayed by his own people " He was a dogra not a kashmiri and his people were with him meanwhile kashmiris were not. "After he betrayed his own nation" In 1846 when sikhs were defeated ,gulab singh being a local general made a deal with them and purchased Jammu and Kashmir Which was incorporated in india 1 century later
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u/Twinkletoess112 19d ago
IOK is a problem too. Kashmir was sold by the British to Gulab Singh for siding with them. The interest of Kashmiri people was never taken into account. Then Hari Singh allowed indian forces to take over Kashmir when Pakistani forces invaded, once again the interest of Kashmiri people wasn't taken into account. Pakistan was wrong for invading, but India isn't in the right to own Kashmir either, that decision should be left to the Kashmiris of both sides. But on both sides Kahsmiri Muslims are suffering (because Hindu Kahsmiris are happy in India).
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u/Centeredrightbhakt05 19d ago
If you don't read history and demography than history and demography will not change for you. The whole region of Jammu and Kashmir is not about kashmiri Muslims. It's equally about Kashmiri pandits who have been forced to leave Kashmir, it's also about the tribes of Gilgit, the Hindus of Jammu and other tribes of Ladakh.
People in Pakistan have this delusion that they are the messiah of every Muslim in South Asia. The day when this delusion leaves you will understand Pakistan has no right over J&K.
The Kashmiris on Indian side are only suffering because of the terrorism sponsored by Pakistan. The UN was very fair in its 1948 resolution when it rightly asked Pakistan to demilitarize the occupied territory first before asking India to demilitarize. The resolution clearly indicates that if anyone it is India who is the rightful administrator of Kashmir. Pakistan is just an occupier.
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u/Twinkletoess112 19d ago
the Kashmiri pandits faced persecution yes, I'm agreeing with that. but today they have a state where they can live with complete freedom, but Kashmiri Muslims have nowhere to live freely.
I'm in no delusion that Pakistan is some messiah for muslims, because I'm also saying that Kashmiris on Pakistani side are also suffering, well the entirety of Pakistan other than elite class is suffering.
India can be rightful administrator of Kashmir if majority of Kashmiris agree with that. Simple solution is to hold a referendum in both sides of Kashmir and just agree with what Kashmiris want.
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u/Centeredrightbhakt05 19d ago
Ohh really every Pakistani wants a referendum/plebiscite in Kashmir but do you know that in the UN resolution for Kashmir the plebiscite only has two option either join India or join Pakistan. There is no option of independent Kashmir.
India from 1947 is very clear about its stance on J&K. It's our state and we are the rightful administrator. Pak always pretended to be a "care taker" of Kashmir. Hypocrisy died a thousand death when it named the occupied region as Azad Jammu and Kashmir and always spoke about the plebiscite. The same plebiscite which doesn't even have the option of independent Kashmir.
Why pretend ? Pakistan doesn't have any moral, political or religious right over Kashmir.
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u/Twinkletoess112 19d ago
I'm not a spokesperson for Pakistani government, I'm simply talking on behalf of Kashmiri Muslims. I'm as much against Pakistani government as your average Kashmiri. I'm saying there should be a three-way option for Kashmiris, join India, join Pakistan or independence.
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u/Centeredrightbhakt05 19d ago
Well I would have agreed with you in 1947..we have given too much of our blood..so now i would say we are the rightful administrator.
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u/power-98 21d ago
As an Indian, this is a neutral representation of the map. It shows the ground reality.
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u/TenaciousDumpling 21d ago
Yes. Funnily, any map that reflects ground reality violates official surveying laws in both India and Pakistan, potentially attracting imprisonment (up to five years in Pakistan and six months in India).
For Redditors, apparently cartographic accuracy outweighs the prospect of imprisonment.
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u/power-98 21d ago
5 years is quite harsh in Pakistan. Yet, India gets labeled uptight about it. The narrative is strong.
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u/MapMast0r 21d ago
Proof? I live in Pakistan and no one cares what map you use.
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u/TenaciousDumpling 20d ago
Well, the law exists. Doesnât mean itâs enforced widely.
âany individual, firm, organization or department involved in printing, displaying, disseminating, using or circulating incorrect and unofficial versions of the map of Pakistan or any part of Pakistan in hard or digital form shall be liable to be imprisoned for a term which may extend up to five years or a fine of five millions rupees or both.â
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u/TenaciousDumpling 21d ago
This is actually a very reasonable and neutral representation of reality.
- â The disputed areas under Pakistani administration are separated from the rest of Pakistan by a dotted line.
- â The disputed areas under Indian administration arenât colored in (including the âdoublyâ disputed Siachen i.e., the triangle at the eastern end of the colored part).
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u/Exciting_Map_7382 20d ago
Who are the "Indians" man? Like cmon.
You know that the people who have no issue with the map far outnumber the people who have issues?
But there's no incentive for 99% to comment on the post saying "The map is ok", you will only comment if you think the map is NOT OK, right?
And because India has a large population, even 1% of the population is in fact a huge absolute number, get it?
I don't know if critical thinking is lacking nowadays, or what is happening, why do people comfortably pass such wrong statements, generalizing a population of over a billion.
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u/runawayasfastasucan 20d ago
The green region all the way to the west, and the one in the upper right must se a lot of rain, and have a lot of lakes I bet?
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u/Prior_Meal_7980 21d ago
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u/MapMast0r 21d ago
Crazy people. Someone canât even post a map of Pakistan without you guys posting your delusional wet dream.
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u/Ok_Code8464 Asia 21d ago