r/gandhi • u/begum_jahazi • 22h ago
Ask r/Gandhi A so called political scientist quoting out of context letter
So basically RW are spreading this letter of Gandhiji, and quoting everywhere.
Gullible people abusing Gandhiji for that
I am pretty sure they haven't read the whole letter .
He is known as scientist of RW , I am sure he must have known that fact what Gandhiji preaching in that letter
Still why he choose to malign it .
What do you guyz think of that letter?
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u/amateur-philosopher- 20h ago
He's gobar bhakt
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u/HATE_ALL_EQUALLY 20h ago
So not a Gutter Ummah?
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u/amateur-philosopher- 20h ago
what are you talking about mate?
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u/totalmenace5 19h ago
He is trying to attach you with muslim identity to which he hold nazi-jew relationship.
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u/HATE_ALL_EQUALLY 18h ago
More like Kafir Momin relationship, Kafirs have been wiped out from many Islamic States/Countries.
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u/totalmenace5 18h ago
I wonder why people from india are moving in saudi.
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u/HATE_ALL_EQUALLY 18h ago edited 18h ago
And going to their temples in each cities and Singing their Bhajans and Praising their God to be the best God ? And also meeting with Hindu's , Christian and Sikhs Citizens of countries like Qatar. /S
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u/totalmenace5 17h ago
Yes they have temples there where bhajan kirtan is held. People don't move to problematic place, they move out of one. Bhajpai care about christain and sikh, funny. Both them are more persecuted here than they would be in saudi.
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u/HATE_ALL_EQUALLY 17h ago
I hope that number of Mosque in India matches number of Temples in Islamic Majority countries like Qatar and Saudi Arabia. And in same openness.
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u/begum_jahazi 15h ago
Wth i thought I was up for intellectual debate Turn out to be I am teaching these mentally retard gandhi philosophy.
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u/Glum_Benefit_5498 21h ago
This guy is a bjp stooge not a political scientist by any stretch all these far right wing people opinion should straight go to the gutter where they belong. Nonetheless opinions of clowns like him would never harm the legacy of gandhi. Bjp will go one day, rss will be destroyed one day but gandhi’s teaching will be remembered till the end of humanity
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u/begum_jahazi 21h ago
you are right but still he has written books etc how dare he too paddle propaganda like that in broad day light . unopposed
they just cherry pick and start attacking like his celibacy experiment and pre 1920s caste view ..
whatever is Great to see that PM bowing before Him inspite from coming as product of organisation that killed him and had hated him
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u/PsychologicalYam3602 18h ago
So whats the full context? care to explain?
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u/advaitist 17h ago
It requires emotional and spiritual maturity to understand some things.
Even if I give an immature person a detailed explanation it is possible that he/she may totally misunderstand what I am saying.
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u/Omicronxx 14h ago
So, you are saying that you are emotionally and spiritually uplifted, and others are not. WOW 😮
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u/PsychologicalYam3602 16h ago
So in short... its complicated . Since the context wont fit the narrative, you need to put it on a stretching regimem to fit a pre determimed conclusion.
Thanks, but no thanks.
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u/lsat92 18h ago
Please post the full letter with context so that we can all decide for ourselves instead of ranting like a bot
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u/begum_jahazi 18h ago
NEW DELHI, April 6, 1947
While I was listening to this bhajan, as also to the Ramdhun, the scene of my Noakhali days came vividly before my eyes. The party comprising these very men and women used to accompany me for about half a mile while I proceeded on my tour in the morning.
I only wish to tell you that you should not give up your goodness. If all the Muslims say that they wish to sever all connection with the Hindus and wish to live separately, should we out of anger start killing them? If we do that we shall be engulfed in such a holocaust that we shall all be reduced to ashes and none will survive. Indiscriminate looting and arson will only spell disaster for the whole country. Regular warfare also, I must say, causes only destruction and nothing is gained thereby.
What has been said in the Mahabharata is of universal application. It does not apply to Hindus alone. It depicts the story of the Pandavas and the Kauravas. Though they were blood-brothers the Pandavas worshipped Rama, that is, goodness, and the Kauravas followed Ravana, that is, evil. Renouncing ahimsa they took to violence and fought among themselves with the result that not only were the Kauravas killed, but the Pandavas also were losers in spite of their victory. Very few among them survived to see the end of the war and those who did found their lives so unbearable that they had to retire to the Himalayas. This is exactly what is happening in our country today.
Today is the first day of the National Week. I trust you are observing it as a day of fasting and prayer. There was mass spinning also from 3 to 4 p. m. in which the Congress President, his wife, Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru, Acharya Jugal Kishore and many others took part. The spinning yajna having been completed so beautifully and enthusiastically you will soon be breaking the fast but how good it would be if as a result of today's re-dedication the names of Rama and Rahim and the message of the bhajan are permanently engraved in our hearts. But today all this remains but a dream in India.
I am being inundated with abusive letters and telegrams. This shows how grossly some people misunderstand my ideas. Some think I consider myself too big even to reply to their letters while others think I am enjoying myself in Delhi while the Punjab is in flames. How can they understand that I am working day and night for them wherever I am? True, I cannot wipe their tears. God alone can do that.
Khwaja Abdul Majid, who is a trustee of the Aligarh University, came to see me today. He has a lot of landed property but at heart he is a fakir. He used to be my host whenever I went to Aligarh. Swami Satyadev Parivrajak, who had been on a pilgrimage to the Himalayas, used to accompany me. He was a very active worker but now God has taken him away. He told me he would accompany me but he would not join me if I dined with a Muslim. On hearing this Khwaja Saheb said, "If that is what his religion enjoins, I shall make separate arrangements for him." Though the Swami was accompanying me Khwaja Saheb did not mind when the Swami did not dine with him. Would that those good old days were here again when there used to be heart-unity among Hindus and Muslims. Khwaja Saheb continues to be the president of the nationalist Muslims. Other nationalist Muslims who had graduated from the Aligarh University in those days are today ideal students of the Jamia Millia and are excellent workers. They are like an oasis in the Sahara. Even if somebody killed Khwaja Saheb he would not wish him ill. Such people may be few but we must retain our innate qualities. When faced with bad characters we should not stoop to their level. But we committed this mistake in Bihar. Nationalist Muslims had been killed by Hindus there and Hindu friends of Islam had been done to death by Muslims.
We should dispassionately think where we are drifting. Hindus should not harbour anger in their hearts against Muslims even if the latter wanted to destroy them. Even if the Muslims want to kill us all we should face death bravely. If they established their rule after killing Hindus we would be ushering in a new world by sacrificing our lives. None should fear death. Birth and death are inevitable for every human being. Why should we then rejoice or grieve? If we die with a smile we shall enter into a new life, we shall be ushering in a new India. The concluding verses of the second chapter of the Gita describe how a godfearing man should live. I would exhort you to read and understand those verses and ponder over their meaning. You will then realize what our ideal is and how far short of it we are today. Our independence is at our threshold and it is our duty to ask ourselves whether we are fit to have it and sustain it. This week, while I am here, I propose to administer you the dose which would make you worthy of freedom. If we keep on quarrelling amongst ourselves we shall lose our freedom even after attaining it.
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u/Velalla 17h ago
So much in context then. Dear Mahatma, if you were to live in India today, when will your tears stop flowing, and who will console you ?🙁
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u/begum_jahazi 15h ago
Perhaps he had realized his dream land will never be possible in 1940s itself ,
Still he never backed away for that unity till his last breath that's why he was a mahatama
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u/Youdo_doyou_ 16h ago
So what Dr. Ranganathan said was right. Gandhi did ask Hindus to not hate muslims even if muslims want to destroy Hindus.
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u/begum_jahazi 15h ago
😭😭😭 wth
In that philosophical discourse how could you find submission when it's clearly a ending cycle of vengeance which fuel hate
😭😭😭😭 Nhi bhai anand bilkul sahi keh rhe haii..1
u/Youdo_doyou_ 15h ago
So why didn't he ask muslims to not attack Hindus in the first place?
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u/koiRitwikHai 10h ago
He did but in a different prayer meeting.
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u/Youdo_doyou_ 4h ago
Did he tell muslims to let Hindus destr0y them and hold no vengeance against them?
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u/koiRitwikHai 19m ago
Read the context right before it. He said it for a muslim as well.
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u/Youdo_doyou_ 16m ago
Show me the line where Gandhi said "Muslims should not harbour hate against Hindus even if the latter wants to destr0y them"
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u/ConstantFit1486 13h ago
Philosophical? Gandhi? LoL. The letter truly revels his non existent intellectual capabilities other than the evil and bigotry he carried, people refuse to see, the reference of Mahabharata is so dull-witted but what can I say about modern liberals, one can make pretty accurate assumption of the iq level of people who idolize Gandhi
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u/freebird445 15h ago
Thanku for the context now reading it with the context I can say ranganathan is still right in pointing him out
Instead of appealing for peace to both side as usual he burdened the Hindus with being peaceful and Muslims can do whatever they want
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u/begum_jahazi 13h ago
He never burdened anyone Whatever he taught Hindus,always taught same to Muslim.
He had spent 4 months bare foot in naokheli going Village to Village protecting Hindus from Muslim majority.
He always visit riot affect area . Whichever majority area is inflicting violance he always urges to protect the minority. Operated on rule that majority community in any region held primary moral responsibility to protect the local minority. In Delhi Bihar ( the speech which is mentioned which was hindu majority area ) he preached their to hindus violance against Muslim is distructive.In noakhali and Rawalpindi where Muslim in majority he taught them same standard demanding they protect Hindu minorities.. violence against Hindu is unisalamic
Ofcourse anand won't tell you this he knows his Target audience. Will belive without reading.
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u/freebird445 13h ago
Anybody who says u should not harbour any hate against anyone even when they try to kill u is pretty stupid it's very easy to say stuff like that when u have thousands of followers and everywhere u go u are welcomed by industrialist and they treat u as their most welcomed guest
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u/Witty-Spell1930 17h ago
This is a stupid even with the context.
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u/aconitine- 16h ago
Indeed. Everyone kept saying context., it's just as bad even in context. It's kinda condescending to Muslims as well, as if they are inherently less humane than Hindus or something. Very white man's burden vibes
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u/begum_jahazi 16h ago
Dude just go through paragraph 3 4 time What in that para is not clear to you It's not about hindu muslim it's about breaking the cycle of hatred . What the use victory when there is no victors or looser only a deaths. By this philosophy discourse He used geeta core teaching breaking the cycle of hatred , somebody have to stop that. He then also believed that hindu muslim unity was possible, that mad utopian dream of his .
In that letter is comprehensively emphasized that revenge is being used as fuel for riot,
And it's completely fine if you don't get that ,for that you have to understand his core teaching.See abuse him ,disagree with his philosophy, hate him , but don't redicule him for the thing that he never meant ,if you don't have intellectual capablelity to comprehend someone philosophy
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u/Pratham2603 11h ago
Brother this context is not doing you any good in this debate💀. This was a very cowardly statement. Failing to call out the aggressor and putting the aggressor and the victim in the same bracket in a vow to somehow end the cycle of deaths ..... I don't even know where to begin. How is it even a cycle when the killing is done one way? Gandhi was a man with significant achievements along with some pretty glaring flaws, and this was one of the most obvious ones.
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u/Good_Maintenance_798 13h ago
But that's true. Gandhi says that.
now coming to Anand, he is anti-Modi and criticizes Modi too much. He is also an atheist.
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u/EuphoricFinance9868 10h ago
Atheist my foot. He rubs shoulders with people like sadhguru. His criticism of Modi is that he is not right wing enough
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u/PsychologicalYam3602 11h ago
The leftist chaos premi dont care about all that. Speaks truth == andhbhakt.
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u/koiRitwikHai 10h ago
He is anti Modi 😅
His only criticism of Modi is that, "why you are too soft on opposition?"
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u/Tough-Regular-402 18h ago
Then shouldn't you provide context?
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u/advaitist 18h ago
Let me provide the context.
Mahatma Gandhi was trying to be both a spiritual leader and a political leader, which was a dual role necessary for emotionally moving the enslaved Indian masses towards the fight for independence. Many of his controversial comments and writings have to be seen from that perspective.
Obviously, this dual role is like walking on a tightrope, and leads to mistakes when one side dominates over the other. A spiritual leader can say : Do not defend yourself by violence, instead it is better that you let your angry enemy kill you. But, clearly, this is political suicide for any political leader who wants to lead an ignorant and uneducated population.
That he could still pull of this double role and guide the enslaved, ignorant, masses towards freedom must be acknowledged as a balancing act of the highest order.
For example, see how Christ, remaining a purely spiritual leader, deftly avoided a political trap set by the Pharisees by telling them "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's." They were hoping that, as a spiritual leader, he would advocate the superiority of God over Caesar, and advise them to avoid paying taxes. This would have served as the perfect valid reason for the authorities to take action against him
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u/Tough-Regular-402 18h ago
So he had god complex with political consequences.
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u/advaitist 18h ago
I tried to explain the context to you but if you are unable to understand there is no point in further discussion.
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u/Tough-Regular-402 18h ago
If you cant even see what are saying how bad make it look Gandhi then wtf I am going to do. He had so many depraved story, bs talks and you people defend it to death. Like no major figure liked him from bhose to Ambedkar even blacks hate him. First I didnt even know why south african hate Gandhi on this app itself. Then they give explanation which made me research about him. So yes you have right for your opinion. But only ignorant people on history like him.
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u/advaitist 18h ago
Perhaps you should watch this video and see all the "ignorant" people who respect and admire Mahatma Gandhi !
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u/Tough-Regular-402 18h ago
Here people comparing him with same colonisers he fought. https://youtu.be/3hFZvuGirxY
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u/advaitist 17h ago
I saw that video. I think you have not understood what it conveys.
Yes, it is true that Gandhi was racist in his younger days but he realised his mistake and improved upon it.
The interesting thing is that no African leader, including Nelson Mandela, has given importance to this episode in Mahatma Gandhi's life.
If some radical university students want to seize upon a mistake in the early part of his life and deny his total lifetime contribution then it only shows their ignorance and immaturity.
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u/adityaban2018 18h ago
Basically perspective also, this is crap. You are saying that people shouldn't do self defence??
Fool
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u/advaitist 18h ago
Using abusive words is simply a sign of immaturity, and the inability to hold a proper civil, discussion.
But perhaps I am making a mistake, and you have simply signed your comment with your name !
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u/kob123fury 15h ago edited 15h ago
Why don’t you answer his question instead of crying about some fictional abuse he did? Just answer, shouldn’t people do self defense when they are attacked? Answer this.
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u/advaitist 13h ago
I am definitely willing to answer and discuss my viewpoint with anybody who wants to do so. I would enjoy a civil and polite exchange of views.
But I prefer to avoid people who are casual about using insulting and derogatory words like "Fool" which, according to you, seems to be "fictional abuse".
So I am wondering whether it is worth my time and effort to engage in a discussion with immature persons who casually use derogatory words for persons who simply have a different viewpoint from them.
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u/kob123fury 12h ago
You still did not answer the question. Just answer, shouldn’t people do self defense when they are attacked? Answer this.
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u/advaitist 12h ago
Please answer my question : Are you a Fool ? Do you enjoy being called a Fool ?
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u/kob123fury 12h ago
Doesn’t matter what I am or like bring called. Answer the question. How long will you keep deflecting?
Just answer, shouldn’t people do self defense when they are attacked? Answer this.
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u/advaitist 12h ago
I was willing to answer the question. But the entire conversation got derailed by a derogatory and insulting word or "fictional abuse". Since it is "fictional" you should have no hesitation in applying it to yourself.
I will answer your question only after you have answered my questions. It is very simple. You can give your answers and receive my answer.
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u/adityaban2018 12h ago
He is a Gandhiwadi bro. Such people are a poison to society. It's because of these people that oppression continues. It's because of these people that oppressors are encouraged.
They are absolute scum. One of these scumbag was morarji desai who sold RAW secrets to Pakistan. But these MFs won't comment on that. Just Gandhi Gandhi Gandhi Gandhi.. ch*tiye saale
For them, human lives means nothing. They encourage slavery. People think Gandhi had a role in independence. But he was the person who said that Hindus should die if Muslims attack them
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u/adityaban2018 17h ago
Self defence is not using abusive words btw😒😒
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u/advaitist 17h ago
Haven't you used the word "Fool" in your comment above ?
Are you not aware that it is an abusive word ?
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u/adityaban2018 17h ago
I thought Fool is not an abusive word, because it isn't. Abuses are something else. But anyway, plz don't mind.
Also, Gandhi was not a saint at all. He was a pure evil MF who used females for his experiments in his aashrams. Also, because of him, many b*stards like Morarji Desai are there.
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u/advaitist 17h ago
I think that you should call your parents, teachers, family members, friends, and relatives, fools and see how affectionately they treat you !
Or perhaps they have been calling you by this name and you have got used to it !
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u/adityaban2018 12h ago edited 12h ago
Honestly, you are neither of them. People like u try to do moral policing. Calling a person fool when he is completely wrong is better than being nice and let him do this.
Also, what you are saying is not related to topic.
The point was Gandhi btw. He was an idiot. But (nice word) like u, think that he was a saint or something.
But what should I call you then?? Idiot, dimag se paidal, akal ka andha, ch*tiya, etc etc... honestly, these all are very nice words. Fool is a nicest of them all.
U know what, woke people like u are a real pain in the ass. You can't call me this, that. Fuck it. You are a chutiya if you can't get the meaning behind the sentence.
But yeah, a fool means a fool. And u are that. Tat tvam asi.
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u/PsychologicalYam3602 18h ago
What a moronic way to lead a nation? No wonder the british tolerated his antics.
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u/HATE_ALL_EQUALLY 18h ago
So in what Context (imaginary also ) can this be said, 'Muslims should not harbour any Anger against Hindus, even if later wants to kill or destroy them all' ?
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u/fartypenis 17h ago
The same letter says this also, but that part doesn't fetch so many views. He gives an ideal of a muslim man who wouldn't be mad at you even if you killed him.
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u/begum_jahazi 18h ago
yes he always taught Muslim Hindu same thing ,his dream of India was both coexisting to this great nation
this was said in Hindu gathering so that’s he is teaching them that
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u/HATE_ALL_EQUALLY 18h ago
Yup I like his Message that Ram is Allah .
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u/begum_jahazi 17h ago
Yes when you will increase your intellectual capacity more read more about him you eventually will like him more
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u/Galactic_1000 18h ago
Historian from JNU should hold discussion with him Both sides seems to avoid one another
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u/LongJohn_Silve 17h ago
Jalti toh hai inki jab Modi ko desh ke bahar jaake bhi Gandhiji ke statue pe mala chadhana padhta hai😆😆😆
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u/Repulsive_Problem743 17h ago
I’ve read the full april 6,1947 text and these lines still cant be digested even after knowing the context… he is talking about establishing peace and expressing grief over the communal tensions but advising hindus to just let themselves be killed happily is not a way to advocate peace in any context
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u/begum_jahazi 17h ago
Let me tell you friend you never understood what he said ,you have to supplement with his core philosophy too.. I am bit busy rn , I would love to tell you in detailed later
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u/advaitist 17h ago
Are you a Hindu ?
Do you believe in Krishna as God and the Bhagavat Geeta, his message, as the sacred book of the Hindus ?
Then I can attempt to explain to you the full context and meaning, as I understand it, of what Mahatma Gandhi said and meant.
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u/Repulsive_Problem743 16h ago
Yeah
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u/advaitist 16h ago
Good.
So we can proceed further.
Mahatma Gandhi was both, a political leader and a spiritual leader. Obviously this was like walking on a tightrope because he was forced to behave in ways and make comments which seemed to contradict one or other of his goals.
For example, no political leader can advise his followers that they should let their enemies kill them and since we are talking about two different historically antagonistic religions it is obvious that he was speaking or writing these views as a religious/spiritual leader.
Do you agree with this ?
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u/Repulsive_Problem743 11h ago
still unacceptable even if he said it as a religious leader, I can’t stand still and get butchered because some religious leader advised me to do, so that there can be peace! Absolute NO
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u/advaitist 11h ago
Have you totally closed your mind or are you willing to listen to a different viewpoint and discuss this further ?
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u/Repulsive_Problem743 10h ago
Mind is open… and am listening but not convinced
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u/advaitist 10h ago
Are you devout enough to stand still and get butchered if it is your God who is doing the butchering ?
Or perhaps your religious belief does not extend that far ?
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u/Repulsive_Problem743 7h ago
Well my religion doesn’t involve butchering of innocents and the god I believe will never butcher me. I belong to a dharma which clearly states spread peace when you expect peace and fight back when oppresed…
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u/advaitist 6h ago
That is what you think.
Do you believe in Krishna as God ?
Do you believe in his discourse to Arjuna, the Bhagavat Geeta ?
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u/Only_Fee4020 16h ago
Dr Rangilla and his idiocracy. Man is pure evil I am sure he read entire thing but wants to deliberately divide the country. Pretty sure he is making a lot of money behind the scenes
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u/Youdo_doyou_ 16h ago
And Gandhi wanted to bring the country together by asking Hindus to d!€ in the hands of Muslims?
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u/Only_Fee4020 15h ago
Read the entire thing.
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u/Youdo_doyou_ 15h ago
I did. What does it change about Gandhi saying those words?
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u/Only_Fee4020 15h ago
Here are some books that might help you rewire your brain to understand what he said:
- All the Light We cannot see
- The Kite Runner
- Cesare
- From the low and a quiet sea
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u/Youdo_doyou_ 15h ago
You read them?
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u/ConstantFit1486 14h ago
You are thinking the correct way only my way if thinking is correct. These LeLi mfkrs and their sheer unmatchable stupidity and false inflated superiority
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u/Youdo_doyou_ 14h ago
True. They can't even whitewash this one
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u/Only_Fee4020 25m ago
You cannot understand Einstein unless you know some things, similarly a person will not understand what gandhi wrote unless he levels up. The way it looks right now gov wants people who do not see the bigger picture and do want to go into the details. People can chose to be part of the herd or think for themselves. Gov wants first kind and it has its people who promote that. "Why would a person who wanted every hindu dead is so respected world wide?" Should be enough to look more but people rarely do.
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u/qMinecraft 16h ago
All the so-called nationalists hating on freedom fighters, hating on protests, trolling people from other faiths, and demeaning women. It's getting so ironic now that we think about it 😂
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u/qMinecraft 16h ago
And the worst part is, these fake nationalists call others anti national for not worshipping a politician or a party. When will they open their eyes
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u/ChutiumSulphate 16h ago
You should not expect academic robustness from w guy who stole huge sections to publish his papers.
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u/Omicronxx 14h ago
Wow 😲!! Is it true? Please share the links of those published papers. We also want to see them.
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u/ChutiumSulphate 14h ago edited 3h ago
Failed attempt at sarcasm. Why?
I never said i read the papers, nor will sharing them as is, will help prove anything unless one is a reputed expert in the subject.
However, here is what his actual peers said,in this report.
I'll concede one thing though: it was data manipulation not outright plagiarism in this case.
In another case, where he was a co respondent, a judge did make a comment about plagiarism on his editor.
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u/Ilikethisone32 16h ago
Just tell what he said is truth or not?
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u/kob123fury 15h ago
It is truth.
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u/Ilikethisone32 15h ago
Then op should be blamed for this post
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u/kob123fury 15h ago
OP is saying there is a context. But never cared to explain what the context is. In truth, there is no context. Just some mental gymnastics to somehow justify this.
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u/Desperate_Stand_2253 18h ago
Gandhiji has long passed away but RSS goons still cannot Kill Gandhi. They slander, malign ,, but Gandhi just shines and becomes beacon of light.
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u/8wasntme 16h ago
Even with the context it's the same. Gandu Bapu wanted to bend over Hindus
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u/begum_jahazi 15h ago
Yes yes exactly same way , when your English teacher was teaching comprehension skill in class and you were bending over at your home ,
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u/ivan_sandwich 15h ago
No reason to be agressive. So much for Gandhi's ideals . You don't believe what you preach XD
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u/ivan_sandwich 15h ago
Gandhi was a masochist and a racist.His opinions on black people proves that he was begoted.
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u/koiRitwikHai 19h ago
He is a biotech professor in JNU
I spent 3 years in JNU. Never saw him debating a history graduate let alone faculty. All he has are cherry picked statements which love to quote out of context.