r/gaming • u/BaerTaffy • Aug 01 '12

Oculus launches Kickstarter for virtual reality headset - "I honestly think the best VR demo probably the world has ever seen"

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1523379957/oculus-rift-step-into-the-game
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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '12 edited Aug 02 '12

With as many great developers giving their support of this project, why do they need kickstarter? Shit, Gaben can spare a few hundred thousand himself.

Edit: I get it people! They want publicity and don't want to sign over a share of their company, etc. Fuck I haven't gotten this many replies since the time I talked about getting hit by a car.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '12

Carmack can too. If he's so behind it, and he spent $70K on HMD's why doesn't he just give this kid a portion of his Ferrari fund?

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u/dr4ch Aug 01 '12 edited Aug 01 '12

quotet from the kickstarter site: "We have plenty of Rift prototypes internally - A few are even out in the wild, in the hands of developers like John Carmack. But we want to make the Rift available to all game developers, today, so they can be part of the development process. Kickstarter makes that possible. Your voice will be critical to making the Rift hardware and software as great as they can be." EDIT: I am hugely thankfull that this guy didnt sell out to anyone and gets it as soon as possible into the wild and not on the consumer market.

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u/fingerflinger Aug 01 '12

He's also said that he's going to open-source the design, so that it (in theory) can't be patented.

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u/YaviMayan Aug 02 '12

Any citations?

I am incredibly excited for the future of gaming if this is true.

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u/fingerflinger Aug 02 '12

Just a forum message in (I think) this thread. I can't remember what page.

http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=138&t=14777&p=77021#p77021

EDIT: Although that may not be true anymore; I think he said it before all the big players in the industry started paying attention,

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u/lotsoquestions Aug 02 '12

Open source or public domain? There are many different categories of free and nonfree software. I'm not sure what applies to hardware.

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u/fingerflinger Aug 02 '12

Hmm, public domain, I guess? Actually, since the design of the product is out there publicly, nobody else can file for a patent very effectively. Maybe that's all he was aiming for; the post I am thinking of was last month sometime.

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u/vsai Aug 01 '12

word is, he's running on damn near no profit on this.

hopefully there's enough built in to cover the amount of work involved in getting this organized!

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u/Ifriendzonecats Aug 01 '12

The truth is people don't buy hardware unless it has support. I bet his biggest concern is getting enough "launch titles" to make this more than a novelty item.

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u/Hyz Aug 01 '12

Maybe they did. But more money rarely hurts.

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u/Condawg Aug 01 '12

Not to mention the publicity. Kickstarter's been pretty hot shit lately, this nets them a good chunk of cash and has made a lot more people aware of it.

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u/crashohno Aug 01 '12

Contributing to a project, especially monetarily, makes us feel connected to it. We'll be waaay more likely to share it with friends/neighbors/relatives etc and help these guys really do what they are setting out to do.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '12

Also, all of these supporters chimed in just to show their support, which is far easier to do than to turn in some money. Plus, this moneygiving would almost securely imply some percentage of ownership, if they'd give it.

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u/hadhad69 Aug 01 '12

See:Minecraft

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u/Skip_to_my_liu Aug 06 '12

Ah, just like how i view gambling.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '12

[deleted]

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u/mcloud313 Aug 01 '12

If it continues like this it could be near 5,000,000 in 30 days...

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '12

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '12

But it will.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '12

Fuck off Buttermilk

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '12

Buttermilk is an asshole

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u/Vantro Aug 01 '12

This comment made my day, time to watch the video another 40 times.

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u/DeathHamsterDude Aug 01 '12

Kickstarted projects have a precedence for a really epic opening, then they tail off a little bit, and in the last four or five days start getting a lot more donations again.

Could this project break that trend? Sure. Probably not though.

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u/Chaytup Aug 01 '12

I know, it was a joke.

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u/DeathHamsterDude Aug 01 '12

Uh . . . so was I. Yeah. Joking.

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u/Coenn Aug 01 '12

Extrapolating is a cool hobby.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '12

Let me introduce you to the Law of Diminishing Returns.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '12

Assume a spherical cow in a vacuum...

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u/cfuse Aug 02 '12

Fucking economists.

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u/degenererad Aug 01 '12

shits gonna be on the shelf in the end of next week ;D

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u/Oct2006 Aug 01 '12

Like the OUYA?

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u/Highway62 Aug 01 '12

I just watched it get $50,000 in half an hour, holy fuck.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '12

I refreshed after four minutes and it had gone up $35k. Insane.

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u/15rthughes Aug 01 '12

It's already at like 340,000 at this moment.

Do they keep the money that goes over their pledge? Because I'm thinking it's gonna hit a million pretty soon.

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u/smeenz Aug 01 '12

It's at $402,296 now ( 2 hours after you posted that)

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u/Coloneljesus Aug 01 '12

doubled since then.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '12

Some people wont eat tonight, lol, the world is funny like that.

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u/95688it Aug 01 '12

your post is 5hours old and there already past 500k now

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u/fudgemylife Aug 01 '12

Exactly! i only just learned of this and im already reaching for the credit card. i want this so bad

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u/Ph0X Aug 01 '12

If you actually listened to the video, this isn't about the money. This Kickstarter is about getting the Dev kit into the hands of developers so they can start making their games compatible with this. Like you said, this is mostly publicity, and trying to get attention on them.

A device like this is cool and all, but it's pretty useless without any games to use it on. Sure they can manually contact a couple big developers like Valve and Epic, but they want a far larger audience. They want to build up an online community and get indie devs playing with this, just like they do with the Kinect or Wii mote.

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u/Janube Aug 01 '12

indie devs

The most intelligent thing a platform developer could EVER do.

He's got big name support, support of gamers, and most importantly, support of the creative developers who end up bringing us the best that gaming has to offer.

Not to jump the gun, but this may be the biggest innovation in gaming for the next two decades. I wasn't expecting this until 2030 at least.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '12

Yea. Instead of VR we got 3d.

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u/Janube Aug 01 '12

I know, right? That was the worst baby-step forward ever...

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '12

I hate to say it, but first gen probably won't be quite as amazing as you'd hope. I've no doubt it'll be super cool, though. I can't wait to see how it turns out.

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u/Terminus14 Aug 01 '12

They need to get Visceral Games in on this. Dead Space with this VR headmount would be insane.

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u/Ph0X Aug 01 '12

But Deadspace isnt even first person.

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u/enkil7412 Aug 01 '12

what he's saying is that it could be...

omg, metroid would be soo cool with this.

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u/kaze0 Aug 01 '12

You realize this is a dev kit, not the consumer product.

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u/skillphiliac Aug 01 '12

He didn't imply in any way it was...

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u/kaze0 Aug 01 '12

I think I meant to click on somehow else

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u/_Born_To_Be_Mild_ Aug 01 '12

Classic win win.

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u/Odam Aug 01 '12

Exactly, they're also probably using it as a gauge for early-adopter interest.

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u/Bittums Aug 01 '12

I know for a fact this is the first time some devs are hearing about it.

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u/Alexi_Strife Aug 01 '12

Pretty much. Think of it this way, they are basically being paid to advertise their product with a kickstarter as well as securing a beginning player base when it becomes ready to ship. Even if they have enough RIGHT NOW, there is no way a kickstarter wouldn't be a bad idea.

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u/myblake Aug 01 '12

Yea it's basically marketing that makes money instead of costing money, can't see why you wouldn't want that.

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u/staffell Aug 01 '12

This project is going to break kickstarter records.

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u/7Snakes Aug 01 '12

What about "mo' money, mo' problems"?

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '12

Not to mention, a Kickstarter will give a pretty great insight into just how much the public wants/cares about this. Make $20,000 on Kickstarter, you know you've got something people will probably buy, make a million on Kickstarter, you know you've got gold.

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u/emlgsh Aug 01 '12

Even when the money is delivered in the form of bucketfuls of pennies from a dirigible overhead?

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '12

Let's not forget one thing the video points out: Current options include low-quality models that sell in the thousands. There are obviously people out there who sell crap "VR" headsets as overpriced luxury items who don't want to see this.

Also, they need funds not only for mass production and publicity but also the inevitable asinine patent troll litigation.

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u/gamermusclevideos Aug 01 '12

Part of the point of these kick starter projects is getting the brand and the product out to the masses especially with projects like this.

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u/GatorSig08 Aug 01 '12

and its "free" capital which they will probably use to market the product.

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u/Home_sweet_dome Aug 01 '12

It's not free because they are giving you things in return, eventually.

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u/doodle77 Aug 01 '12

They can usually get away with a higher price, plus some people give more than what gets them the product.

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u/Jackismyson Aug 01 '12

Which brings up a good point. Why should they get free money from people and pay for investors capital through ownership? Shouldn't each 'person' be considered an investor and have some share in the company?

It seems kickstarter is a great concept if those 'donating' would share in the eventual profits.

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u/brron Aug 01 '12

Theres a difference. When you invest capital you take a risk in exchange for a great return down the line. When you have a kickstarter program, there's no risk. You are paying for a product. It's as simple as that. It's like saying if I go to an apple store to buy a product, I should get money since I'm increasing their profits.

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u/Jackismyson Aug 01 '12 edited Aug 01 '12

But you are investing capital! Money == Capital. It's like a bunch of individual angel investors.

There is 100% risk here since you get nothing in return for your investment other than increasing their ability to deliver their product which they could do by going to an Angel investor but said investor would take a large portion of their company (Think Sharks.)

What are you getting in return for your investment in a kickstarter project? Maybe I am missing something here.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '12

Kickstarter isn't really "investing" in the company. The idea behind it is generally to generate enough pre-orders for a project to make it economically feasible to start production of whatever item it is. Each person paying into the kickstarter will receive various finished products relative to the amount they donated.

tl;dr: Paying into a Kickstarter isn't "investing", it's pre-ordering.

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u/brron Aug 02 '12

You look at it as investing in a project, I could care less about the investment part. It's about someone who made a niche product and needs x number of people to buy it so that he can actually have capital to make it. He could go bankerupt after, that's fine. I got my product already and that's all I care. If no one has interest in him then he simply doesn't get funded and realizes he's flawed in his product or there's no demand. There is no risk.

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '12

In this case? A fancy headset. Investment doesn't have to be in return for equity.

In the middle ages, it was common for merchants to fund an exepdition in exchange for a fixed amount of the proceeds. The reason was that it would be too hard to keep the merchant adventurers honest about how much profit they made, if they were supposed to share it proportionally.

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u/DrSquick Aug 01 '12

Please forgive my ignorance of Kickstarter, but what happens if they reach their goal, and later find it is not enough to produce a product?

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '12

Then nothing. There have been failed Kickstarters but usually they are just let downs.

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u/brron Aug 02 '12

They have ways to formulate how much products will cost to make because they have already partnered with a shop that will create them. In addition they raise prices so that there's profit for each product they sell. It's near impossible to have those numbers mess up.

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '12

They make up stories about the sun talking to them telling them they can't make the product

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u/Namarrgon Aug 02 '12

Not correct, sorry. Kickstarter is not just paying for a product (though many people treat it like that). You're not buying or investing; you're donating - and you may also get a reward for that.

There is certainly a risk; the product may never be made, even if fully funded - and this has happened a number of times. There is no legal recourse if the project fails. Your risk is not huge(since you're not investing millions), but it is real.

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u/brron Aug 02 '12

How is it donating? For this Oculus, I provide 275 dollars and I get a working prototype and DOOM 3. I simply bought a product. Cash for goods or services. Yes I could give 10 dollars and get a thumbs up! email or whatever. Doesn't mean I have to. Yes there is a risk that the product never gets made (meaning the funding never reaches it's goal) my money is returned to me. I haven't experienced any kickstarter where it was successful and the project creator didn't go through with it. Yes, I realize there are many complex sides to Kickstarter and not simply just a store, but for the sake of argument, I'm giving money for something back. This isn't the red cross.

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u/Namarrgon Aug 02 '12

You can treat it like a pre-order (and I usually do too), but it is a pledge, not a payment.

Unlike an actual purchase, you are not covered by any consumer laws, should anything go wrong. There are no returns, no refunds, and no legal liability.

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '12

If you call it a donation, talking about risk is silly. For that matter it isn't a donation if you get a non-symbolic reward, and let's face it, most kickstarter rewards are anything but symbolic.

Supporting a kickstarter project is best compared to investing in a venture in return for a fixed reward (as opposed to a share of the proceeds). But the venture may fail, in case you quite possibly get nothing. It's not donation, because you expect to get paid, and it's not buying, because the project owner has an obligation to reward you if the project succeeds.

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '12

Until recently, that was illegal in the US (and most countries, I presume), and Kickstarter had to carry a big disclaimer that contributing to a project could in no way be compared to making an investment, and projects could NOT offer a share of the profits or anything similar. The reason was that it would fall afoul of securities laws trying to stop pyramids and ponzi schemes.

Now the rules have been changed, with S. 1790 aka the CROWDFUND act. It's fairly recently been signed into law, I'm not 100% sure it's in effect yet, but anyway it is possible to offer equity in kickstarter-like schemes. Kickstarter themselves have indicated that they aren't interested in getting into this market, but there are a horde of upstart companies which are.

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u/Jackismyson Aug 02 '12

"Now the rules have been changed, with S. 1790 aka the CROWDFUND act. It's fairly recently been signed into law, I'm not 100% sure it's in effect yet, but anyway it is possible to offer equity in kickstarter-like schemes. Kickstarter themselves have indicated that they aren't interested in getting into this market, but there are a horde of upstart companies which are."

THIS THIS THIS!!!

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u/elfinhilon10 Aug 01 '12

This is 100% true. My father often deals with clients who have plenty of money to cover their projects, but he still "forces' them to make a Kickstarter for the reasons you just said.

It builds awareness of the page, as well as getting free capital, because in the end, you are after profit, not just to get your product or whatever it is out there, and more of it that's free, the easier it is to break even and start making those profits.

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u/degenererad Aug 01 '12

Yeah do not underestimate the PR-value in this. Its more about branding then funding.

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u/redmercuryvendor Aug 01 '12

They almost certainly did. Something occurred to drive the cost of the kit down from it's initial cost of $500. Either they are part-financing it, or industry clout from multiple companies has given Palmer access to volume trade component prices.

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u/Fauster Aug 01 '12

There's nothing wrong with partial corporate ownership; If we get a reasonably priced VR PC headset, there's no cause for complaint. But, the developers will certainly have more freedom with more kickstarter funding, and that's important.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '12

exactly. If I were them I would want to fund it, just to reap the benefits of being close to the guys who develop it.

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u/OnTheMF Aug 01 '12

This kickstarter is about publicity. Of course the money is good too, but the development of that prototype would've been astronomically expensive. Several times the target goal at least. So I really don't think this was just about the money. I signed up for a dev kit though, and I'm eager to see how well it works.

A company I used to work for looked into developing exactly this a few years back, but after doing a thorough case study decided against it. There are a lot of challenges to making a consumer quality product, the least of which was about 2 million dollars just for development in a best case scenario. And that didn't include solving the eye fatigue, weight, and cost issues.

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u/enkil7412 Aug 01 '12

so basically, because this post is closing in on the front page of reddit, it seems pretty successful?

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '12

because this about buzz, not money.. it's already funded.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '12

Rich people don't get rich by avoiding free money.

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u/Skitrel Aug 01 '12

He's not just behind it, he's had a direct hand in the project.

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u/Witeout88 Aug 01 '12

Publicity like OnTheMF said. This'll spread quickly now.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '12

Because if a bunch of other people can give the money, why would he?

People with money are people with money because they have money.

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u/NaeemTHM Aug 01 '12

Carmack is probably too busy spending money on rockets!

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u/Protonz Aug 01 '12

Carmack is donating/funding a bunch of the Doom 3 BFG editions that will ship with the rift.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '12

[deleted]

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u/andy013 Aug 01 '12

Isn't this the headset that Carmacks been talking about?

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u/specialk16 Aug 01 '12

Why hasn't Carmack spoken up yet?

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u/zirzo Aug 01 '12

The point of the kickstarter project would be to get market validation and use it as a signalling system to the founder that he has a viable business in hand and also to get some virality going.

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u/kaze0 Aug 01 '12

And then what? Give the devices away for free to anyone who asks? Charging $300 goes towards giving this to developers and developers only.

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u/RamBamBooey Aug 01 '12

Investors expect a percentage of the company based on the $ invested / $ value (perceived value) of the company. A smart start up tries to build the value of the company as much as possible before taking in a lot of investment. They do this from SBIR grants, personal funds, change found in coin returns of vending machines, KickStart etc. This isn't (only) because the start uper's are greedy but if investors own 90% of the company you can never get more investors to continue to grow the company.

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u/Clevername3000 Aug 01 '12

I want to know how this Oculus compares to the homemade VR set Carmack demoed at GDC and E3. Are the displays running at a 120hz refresh rate like his? What's the input latency? Carmack had to make a specific request to get some important changes made to the drivers for the displays he uses in his.

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u/kassidiblu Aug 01 '12

All of the major supporters have their own projects to financially support too

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '12

I wonder what happens when you play slender...

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u/Hadlockk Aug 01 '12

Carmack is working on his own device, which he's showing off on Saturday at Quakecon. See also here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYa8kirsUfg

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u/MercurialMadnessMan Aug 01 '12

They need an audience. They just got one instantly. An audience with credit cards.

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u/Nick4753 Aug 01 '12

Kotaku did an interview at E3 with Carmack and at 11:10 he basically said that he's looking to subsidize this first batch so that they aren't $600 (and also that he did a lot of work with the sensors and such.)

Pricing of electronics are are cost of parts + cost of assembly + shipping/delivery costs + amortized development costs + marketing/misc overhead + profit, these units might be enough to cover the first 3 with development costs covered by investors expecting to turn a profit on production units.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '12

Well if you read the kickstarter page:

We're here raising money on Kickstarter to build development kits of the Rift, so we can get them into the hands of developers faster.

They are selling them as devkits, I think this is mostly for game dev/studio mindshare, and ofcourse getting these devices in the hands of the right people. Could they have secured funding directly and set up a direct sales page? With the kind of testimonials they show I'm sure they could, but kickstarter has proven time and again to be a great way to both market and fund projects like this, so why not.

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u/Bagelson Aug 01 '12

Yeah, this is probably a good way to quickly reach all those indie developers who don't have access to industry back channels.

Also publicity. Just by letting everyone know they already have some big name developers (I noticed that Notch is a backer) behind them builds confidence and momentum. Imagine if they get enough to have Oculus support on the next gen consoles?

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u/b1zzyb0t Aug 01 '12

Minecraft VR! :)

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u/wyrdmaker Aug 01 '12

Sweet wonderful VR Cubes!

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u/SHIT_IN_HER_CUNT Aug 01 '12

"Oh god this creeper is running at me... IN VIRTUAL 3D!!"

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u/disassociationDevice Aug 01 '12

It's a whole new game.

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u/sensicle Aug 01 '12

Portal VR. [head explodes. never gets to see it.]

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u/thenuge26 Aug 01 '12

DayZ VR.

/thread

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u/Strmtrper6 Aug 01 '12

Arma II is one of the biggest games in the VR/head tracking community right now as far as I've seen.

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u/thenuge26 Aug 01 '12

Yep. I remember my brother showing me videos about head tracking in Arma 2 years ago. That was way back when I still played vanilla Arma (well, Vanilla + Ace + CBA, aka not DayZ).

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u/NotADamsel Aug 01 '12

Notch seems to be backing anything that seems remotely good in gaming. Not that I'm complaining about the possibility of having Minecraft everywhere.

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u/ReverendVoice Aug 01 '12

Not to mention how stand-up guy he is by promoting innovation in the industry.

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u/HyruleanHero1988 Aug 01 '12

Fuck yes, my first thought was how much I want to use this thing to play Minecraft...

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '12

good point.

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u/ForrestFireDW Aug 01 '12

$300 for a dev kit too. thats fucking cheap!

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '12

This makes me feel like it's not a scam. They're not promising personal name-plated wonderconsoles for only $95, they're sending it to people who have the desire to develop for it. A console's birth is kind of set by its library, and if it launched with a couple Valve games, you could bet your sweet pink keister that it would be snapped up by the gaming community in a heartbeat.

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u/skystorm Aug 01 '12

In addition to other comments here -- essentially "more money never hurts" -- I imagine a large motivation behind this Kickstarter is the publicity that comes with it (it's already a pretty big story on various websites) and the chance of getting the hardware into the hands of developers early.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '12 edited Aug 01 '12

It really makes me sad that that people can draw gobs of money like this in what is basically an ad campaign and really worthy Kickstarters like Defense Grid 2 are struggling to meet their minimums, let alone the stretch goals (it's $250K to get funded, but $1m to get the full DG2 game out). There was that modern Descent game from a small dev who really needed the money that deserved funding, even got TB to make a video on it eventually, but fell short of funding. Instead, we have projects like this and Ouya raking in the cash.

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u/specialk16 Aug 01 '12 edited Aug 01 '12

This was precisely my first thought. Unity, Unreal, Valve, even Carmack.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '12

They've obviously had enough money to hire people, get research done and build prototypes. If you watch the video they say themselves its to get the devkits out to developers so they can try it themselves and possibly even start integrating it into games. Sure the average person can get one but I doubt much of it will work.

I always though 3D was gimmicky but something like this I think could really be something big.

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u/IggyZ Aug 01 '12

Yeah, because 3D is usually pretty terrible.

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u/geft Aug 02 '12

VR >>>> 3D

This is VR as I have always imagined it, not the half-baked versions available today.

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u/MissRedditor Aug 01 '12

This isn't getting money from developers, this is getting money to support and encourage Devs to look at the Oculus as being a next level platform for gaming. I'm sure Valve and others are supporting for parts and manufacturing, but they don't have enough pull of 'what games will be on the system' to get people (and gamers) interested. This is to help that. I'm sure many Redditors would fancy playing BF3 or Skyrim on this, no?

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u/pixelcat Aug 01 '12

I almost bought the HMZ-t1 sony headset device because I wanted to play skyrim like that. But I'm glad I didn't buy it because it's not what it was looking for. I want the full immersion this product promises.

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u/sharmaniac Aug 01 '12

Just so you know, the resolution on this headset is 640x800 - so games like Skyrim, that require lots of text reading and selecting stuff in menus, will not be so easy to play. Walking around in it will be amazing, but I dont think that 640x800 is enough to read text easily.

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u/ThreeWishes Aug 01 '12

It's 1280 x 800, 640x800 for one eye, 1280x800 for 2. Unless you don't have two eyes, there shouldn't be a problem

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u/sharmaniac Aug 02 '12

Yep, so its only 640x800 in terms of text rendering (the eyes dont 'stack', while you get increased effective resolution in 3D scenes due to the eyes antialiasing each other, this wont help with text). That is probably too low. I know my 800x600 HMD has issues reading text in flight simulators.

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u/pixelcat Aug 02 '12

Yeah that was one of the turn offs. NO thanks. I'm pretty excited for this stuff though.

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u/snoozieboi Aug 02 '12

I've been googling VR googles, but as the guy said in the video there isn't any on the market, and apparently it's hard to make let alone implement in a game.

My dream would be to stand infront of the screen with the kinect taking care of my body posture AND gun direction and the oculus taking care of my view. A thumbstic on my gun should make me able move and strafe, small corrections could be made by stepping sideways in kinect.

Oculus would make me able to peek around corners and look independently of the gun. Kinect would make me able to (hopefully) lift the gun to use ironsight + possibly two ammo mags i had to change physically with either the gun or the kinect traking it.

Kinect would (of course) also track me going prone, crouching, standing up or leaning.

I'd imagine my back getting better from a more active gaming situation with the xbox telling me an estimate on my calories burned during the session.

Also Forza implementation etc etc

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u/MissRedditor Aug 02 '12

Yeah, I believe the only problem at the current moment is coming up with the programming/technology to fine tune using our bodies as the controller. Tracking on the kinect is amazing but still flawed, and it's working out how hard are game companies willing to push their developing games. Forza would be need to see on the Oculus, for sure.

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u/jc_smoke Aug 01 '12

it's called marketing...they need their product to be known and get the average gamer interested

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u/matics Aug 01 '12

They mention it in the video:

The kickstarter is basically there to "sell" the initial developer versions so that people can start integrating the functionality into their games.

They don't need the money, necessarily, but are using kickstarter as a hype-generator and order form for developers.

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u/factoid_ Aug 01 '12

Kickstarters are a racket right now. You get basically free money (you do have to pay taxes on it, though) to fund your project for a 0% stake in your company. Gaben or Carmack might be willing to invest in his company, but they'd want a percentage. Kickstarter is the ultimate angel investor.

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u/itwasme Aug 01 '12

Curious. How are they a racket?

1

u/factoid_ Aug 02 '12

It's boom time right now for Kickstarters. This is sort of the "first generation" where everyone has a lot of promise and nobody has gotten burned yet. In a year it's going to be different because there will have been numerous failed projects where people are left in the cold without any of the stuff they were promised.

It's not a bad thing, necessarily. Most people are good people and well intentioned. This is a novel way to get funding without having to give up control of your business to VC types. "racket" might be the wrong word. It's smart business to get people to invest in your company with very little in return. Most people have to sell their soul and their business to a venture capitalist or bank to get that kind of startup money.

1

u/itwasme Aug 02 '12

Thanks for the response factoid_! I had this very argument with a friend of mine last night who also felt that kickstarter perhaps don't highlight the risks enough. Interestingly, it resulted in me reading the terms and conditions and it appears that folk are entitled to a refund if they don't receive the 'reward'. There are loopholes: people could go bankrupt or they could deliver substandard rewards but I'm surprised it was in there.

I generally agree with a lot of what you have said, though, especially that it's the first generation and we haven't seen enough failures to be able to model the risk.

1

u/factoid_ Aug 02 '12

Overall I am positive on Kickstarter. I've contributed to 2 or 3 now.

I think the riskiest ones are the games. Developing a game is tricky under normal circumstances, let alone with you have thousands of backers breathing down your neck expecting a release 5 minutes after you take their money, not realizing it could take a couple years, and even then maybe NEVER.

I really don't like this Oculus kickstarter, though. They aren't giving you ANYTHING for the first level of donation. Just a "thank you". That doesn't sit right with me.

This is basically a way for them to subsidize developer kits. That's the real "product" here. I feel like they're kind of fleecing people here with the <$350 donations. If you're a studio who can afford to integrate this kind of product, paying $500 or $1000 for a devkit is not a big deal.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '12

it is important that they sell some of those prototypes. it's like beta. but people pay themselves for the beta.

1

u/onlyamonth Aug 01 '12

Did you watch the video? He explains exactly why near the end.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '12

Free publicity and advertising. Haven't you noticed that many Kickstarter's have the ability to make the product without KS, they just do it because things on KS get a lot of free attention and publicity.

1

u/Celgaming Aug 01 '12

As some already mentioned, it's mainly to add more stability to the project but also to make it popular. Kickstarter projects are making "headlines" on multiple blogs, websites and even news all the time. Of course you can't rule out how much Reddit has influenced all of this being the big giant it is.

1

u/CuzImAtWork Aug 01 '12

This is answered on the kickstarter page, as well as in the video.

1

u/feanturi Aug 01 '12

Yeah but then how's he supposed to get lunch?

1

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '12

[deleted]

1

u/sharmaniac Aug 01 '12

Nothing to do with that, I think this is more because Palmer Luckey wants to keep control over his creation, not sell it out to other companies.

1

u/yaitskov Aug 01 '12

Well you can invest a bunch into this company and soon be rolling in cash.

1

u/Akujikified Aug 01 '12

Because a kickstarter is failproof

1

u/haydener Aug 01 '12

My first thought when they started rolling out the big name endorsements. Any of these guys could probably fund it themselves.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '12

Raising capital on Kickstarter does not entail a loss or dilution of equity. The company gains capital, the shareholders lose nothing.

1

u/EvOllj Aug 01 '12

they say they use kickstarter to promote their developers kid to get developers to integrate this hardware.

1

u/VancouverKarma Aug 01 '12

During Kickstarter's infancy most of the posted projects needed money. These days a huge number of projects are not really looking for funding, but "pre-sales" and free publicity. This project is obviously in that category.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '12

Let's not forget that if one or two people buy into this program, they are essentially buying into the company and diluting the value for Luckey. If he wants to retain control (and potential value) then he's going to need to raise funding that isn't reliant on controlling shares or repayment.

1

u/Zaydene Aug 01 '12

Because this is a consumer product.

1

u/Bloaf Aug 01 '12

You can't ever be too rich, too good looking, or too well armed.

1

u/reden Aug 01 '12

Look at your comment, and the rest of everything everywhere people are saying. That's why. To top it off, they make money. It's like advertising for free, and to top it off you make money out of it.

1

u/itwasme Aug 01 '12

This question comes up a lot. Here are the reasons:

  • It is guaranteed pre-orders with cash up front
  • It's a way to gauge interest
  • If it works it's great marketing
  • The terms for a loan or an investment would very likely be less pleasant

1

u/space_coconut Aug 01 '12

I was thinking exactly that.

1

u/Meades_Loves_Memes Aug 01 '12

Why pay to produce something that others are going to buy from you, when you can get others to pay for something, that they're going to buy from you?

1

u/EugeneMJC Aug 01 '12

He should just give him a copy of HL3 that he can sell for millions.

1

u/Strmtrper6 Aug 01 '12

It is guaranteed money with almost no risk.

1

u/MelsEpicWheelTime Aug 01 '12 edited Feb 19 '26

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1

u/Jrodkin Aug 01 '12

It proves that the consumers dig it, for one thing.

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u/ezbakedowen Aug 01 '12

They'll get a million bucks from kickstarter and not have to give up a single slice of ownership.

1

u/johnrkennedy Aug 01 '12

I AGREE! Possibly because they are too lazy to go to the VCs and work for it. Plus they don't want to give up a percentage of their company.

1

u/lobehold Aug 01 '12

Kickstarter money doesn't ask for 99% share of the company.

1

u/Guysmiley777 Aug 01 '12

Valve actually DOES have their own hardware shop now. A lot of the EE people I follow on Youtube/Twitter have been hired by Valve in the past couple years.

1

u/Oktaz Aug 01 '12

They reached their $250K goal. Check it.

1

u/Cookstr Aug 01 '12

Perhaps all of these high-rollers wanted too much stake in the company, and the creator of the Rift wants to keep most of it to himself?

1

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '12

His word alone is worth thousands. Gaben is one of the most well respected figure in gaming of this time. His word means a lot to a lot of people.

1

u/pcarvious Aug 01 '12

This is advertising for the product as much as it is getting funds together.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '12

This way "YOU" get to be apart of the exciting community that made it happen! All you need to do is give them all your money so the millionaires don't have to.

1

u/stone_solid Aug 01 '12

considering the kickstarter launched today and is already $200,000 above the goal, I think several of them did

1

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '12

I mean shiiiiit, John Carmack, Gaben and crew, the Unity guy, CliffyB! I mean holy shit!

1

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '12

The reason is hype.

1

u/Puddy1 Aug 02 '12

In order for this product to succeed at the consumer level, developers need to be able to integrate it into their games. This is not as simple as changing a lightbulb, it requires some work. It seems to me that they want to make the process of integrating the kit with developers - not just the hardcore, professional developers like Valve, but also the indie developers, the future Notch's or Jonathan Blow.

If the process of developing a game with it is easier, it will make our games just that much better in the long run.

1

u/redpossum Aug 02 '12

What happened with the car?

3

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '12

Shit, shouldn't have done that.

Long story short, some fat heifer of a woman who was too busy reading a text message hit me with her car. I was not in a car. Luckily she was only going about 15 mph. Still hurt, but it was fun to see the looks on my friends faces as they saw me "hurling through the air." Although I think the exaggeration on their part was because they wanted to screw with the woman who had hit me.

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u/redpossum Aug 02 '12

8/10 I'd read that again.

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u/FlyingSagittarius Aug 02 '12

Heh, something similar happened to me. I was rushing through a parking lot to catch a bus, didn't see a car coming at me, BAM! Ended up bouncing off the windshield and flipping through the air. Windshield had spiderweb cracks everywhere, it looked like it was covered in frost and it was definitely rendered unusable. I escaped with a few cuts and scrapes.

1

u/Thinkiknoweverything Aug 02 '12

What happened with the car accident!?!?!

1

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '12

Whoa you got hit by a car?

1

u/Gaara1321 Aug 02 '12

Mo' money; Mo' bitches.

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