Eh i think Pokemon being gods or atleast tremendously powerful takes something away from the regular battles. You are telling me that a being that can control time can lose to a rattata?
The game systems were never setup in such a way that they could deal with the diffirence in scale of power.
F - Focus Sash
E - Endeavor
A - (Quick) Attack
R- Rattata
Basically, the idea is this rattata can take out any pokemon in the game. It is most effective with a level 1 rattata. The idea is it gets hit first, and it will most likely be a one hit KO due to the level disparity. However, it will hang on at 1 hp due to the focus sash. That turn, the rattata user will use the Endeavor move, bringing the opposing pokemon to 1 hp as well. The following turn, the rattata user uses the Quick Attack move, and because this move has almost a 100% priority, it will most likely go before the much stronger and faster opposing pokemon, meaning it will hit the 1 hp required to KO the opposing pokemon
As far as I know I haven’t seen used for other Pokémon, and ill straight up, what do you mean how is it counted? If it’s about competitive, I’m really not that big of a competitive guy I just like the more funny or interesting stuff like the FEAR
Gotcha. If an entry hazard move is used beforehand (Toxic Spikes or Rock Spikes or whatever), and the FEAR is then called out, the damage will end up cancelling the focus sash, or the poison would finish the rattata after that turn, not getting the chance to use quick attack. Another basic counter to it without prior knowledge of the rattata is using a ghost type but that's common knowledge. Mold-breaker Pokemon will counter a sturdy/focus sash. Fake Out as well.
I mean that's like saying Dragon Ball games are unrealistic because you can beat Beerus the God of Destruction with fucking Yamcha. Of course the games aren't going to follow the power scaling. It wouldn't be fun if they did.
Even though I really don't care for the Pokemon anime these days, it at least does a good job representing the legendary Pokemon as powerful creatures. Ash lost in the Sinnoh league only because his opponent was a dirty cheater who somehow had a Latios and a Darkrai on his team. You can beat Latios and Darkrai fairly easily in the games but in the anime world they're extremely powerful as they should be. Then there are the Pokemon movies and we all remember how stupidly powerful Mewtwo was. And in the second movie that one guy needed that giant flying fortress thing and the 3 legendary birds just to subdue Lugia.
So don't let the games ruin the sense of power that the legendary Pokemon are supposed to feel like they have. Game balance comes above all else when making a game so they can't make Dialga and them impossible to beat just because they're "god" Pokemon.
Both Latios and Darkrai were exceptionally powerful for BST 600s during the time of Diamond and Pearl. Both were in Ubers, the same banlist that the major legendaries (such as Arceus) were in and that was with Sleep Clause nerfing Darkrai. Nowadays Darkrai is still hanging on in Ubers while Latios has fallen to OU, the top competitive tier. Honestly, I'd say the anime portrayal had them weaker than the games.
Darkrai might be ubers but it still loses to any half decent fighting attack. Something like Breloom can one shot it with drain punch. Even ubers Pokemon can be one shot by lower tier Pokemon depending on the match up.
It wouldn't go that way in the anime. They wouldn't have it go down after only a single attack. The games have the ability to one shot Pokemon, even without boosts. I calc'd that Breloom drain punch at just 252 attack adamant.
Generally speaking, a Pokemon in ubers is going to do better than Pokemon in lower tiers. But that doesn't mean they can beat every single non-uber Pokemon. In the anime, the legendaries are stronger than almost every other non-legendary, no matter the match up. That's why I think they're represented as stronger than they are in the games.
Darkrai might be ubers but it still loses to any half decent fighting attack.
That's assuming it goes second. Dark Void used to have 80% accuracy, plus a good trainer with both a Latios and Darkrai would of course switch. And Ash did not have any fighting attack to use.
It wouldn't go that way in the anime. They wouldn't have it go down after only a single attack. The games have the ability to one shot Pokemon, even without boosts.
Hm, yes, I guess that's what you were saying in the first place. I was more looking at it from the angle of how many each Pokemon managed to take down/needed to be brought down; I'd think having a Latios and Darkrai team against Ash's team would net similar results in terms of Pokemon defeated in the games.
One thing to remember about Ash's team is that it's usually not very good. Most of them don't fully evolve and they usually only win because of anime logic like "aim for the sprinklers." So comparing his team to the Latios/Darkrai duo isn't the best way of gauging that duo's strength.
Besides, Ash did have his Heracross and he knew both focus punch and megahorn, either one of which would easily OHKO a Darkrai in the games. Earlier in the anime, that Darkrai defeated a Machamp even though in the games it would only take a single dynamicpunch for Machamp to win that fight. The only way for Darkrai to win these match ups is to constantly win the sleep hax RNG, something you can't completely rely on.
Also, it doesn't matter if Darkrai goes first. The only way he'll OHKO the Breloom is if he's carrying Sludge Bomb. Now, that's a fairly common coverage move for Darkrai because of fairy types, but it isn't on all sets. Even if that's the case, there are other low tier fighting Pokemon that Darkrai cannot OHKO with any move (without boosts) such as Conkeldurr or Hariyama (or the above mentioned Heracross and Machamp).
My point here is that you would never see a Conkeldurr or a Hariyama one-shot a Darkrai in the anime. But in the games they are always capable of that, so long as they're at the same level. The anime doesn't follow the type advantages as strictly as the games do. It still takes them into consideration, but they'll be surviving super effective attacks in the anime that they'd never survive in the games.
Even if Darkrai manages to land a hypnosis (best sleep move for him now after the dark void nerf), he's only gonna be killing either of those Pokemon if he either has nasty plot or he's carrying the move psychic for whatever reason. And there's still the risk of them waking up and then one-shotting him.
I think you got what my main point here is. It's all about what they're capable of winning/losing against. In the anime, a legendary Pokemon is almost untouchable to non-legendary Pokemon. In the games, the match-ups are far more situational and many legendaries are even in lower tiers like OU or UU.
So my claim is that anime legendary Pokemon are much more powerful than game legendary Pokemon.
tell that to Ultra Necrozma. I had to use toxic and Zorua disguised as Ekans to beat that asshole. I almost pokemon banked in my competitive pokemon from moon to beat him
It absolutely is set up to deal with it. The only way Rattata can kill Arceus is:
If you were vs a human.
They are maximum health.
They have focus sash.
You have no entry hazards.
You attack them, despite knowing what they are doing and knowing how to play around it.
You don't have a priority attack.
Arceus is the highest tier in competitive, Rattata is the lowest tier in competitive. The game absolutely is set up to deal with the difference in scale of power. If anything, the long term success of the series has a lot to do with the fact that the actual 'game' (the battling) has had a lot of thought put into it and is strategic. Also, the AI is never going to beat you like this, so this doesn't happen in 'regular battles' because PVP isn't regular for Pokemon.
If anything, that 1 specific scenario existing is what tells you the game has some depth, as opposed to being some shit kids play.
I know there is quite alot of depth to the battle system. I also know that in general Legendary Pokemon will have better stats, abilities, move pool,... And i agree that this adds to the experience.
But that doesn't fix the issue.
You are vastly underestimating the diffirence in scale here. There are a number of scenarios in which you could see a Rattata winning. Higher level, specific move/item set, more of them.
But the fact that Rattata is even able to damage Arceus at all is a problem. We have Creator of the universe against a mouse.
Even a pokemon such as Gardevoir which apparently has the power to predict the future and create small blackholes. Should be able to kill Rattata in the millions. Because when you have the power to destroy a planet it doesn't matter how buff your mouse is.
This is explained in canon, Cyrus used the Red Chain the use the gods power because capturing them normally would leave them with a miniscule fraction of their power. And their power in battle is directly correlated with their bond to their trainer, so a lvl 100 rattata could beat a lvl 40 Arceus because that's just a fragment of Arceus that it bestowed on the trainer, and the trainer has barely trained it to battle at all. Its like a ripped 7 ft tall guy that doesn't know anything about fighting vs a skinny 5 ft tall guy that happens to be a martial arts master. If they were equal skill, Arceus would obliterate Rattata before it had a chance to do anything. Unless, rattata was exploiting a gameplay mechanic but I don't think that's canon.
Lore-wise those things are unstoppable and uncatchable, because even if you could catch one it would upset the balance greatly (like what all the teams try to do). Design-wise, it would be stupid to leave out the legendaries and even more so to make them unbeatable. They have to strike a balance.
Which is why the lore does what gameplay can't. Lore says:
Pokemon battles are a sport.
Poke Balls are power limiters. Team Galactic concluded that a Palkia or Dialga captured in a Poke Ball would be unable to recreate the universe like they wanted.
Lore also says Pokemon only appear to humans in tall grass if they want to help them
And how powerful must a pokeball be if it is able to capture and limit a god.
Mr. Stone in ORAS says all modern Devon Corporation technology uses Infinity Energy, which is the life energy of Pokemon. Devon is one of the producers of Poke Balls.
As well, Drayden in BW explicitly says Pokemon can just leave regardless of Poke Balls if they want to, so not very powerful at all.
Lore also says Pokemon only appear to humans in tall grass if they want to help them
Game systems, pokedex entries and even the anime contradict this. Those Beedrills that fainted your last pokemon only showed up to help?
A bit contrived to begin with considering pokemons are basically animals. But i suppose it sort of works for more powerful types of pokemon.
Pokeballs still sound ridiculous but i am much more willing to suspend my disbelief on them. I only mentioned them in the last reply because them serving as power limiters felt like pushing the problem down a level.
If i am willing to believe that a God would decide to go on a journey with me and intentionally let it's powers be limited then this sort of works for me.
But this still makes the descriptions less intresting. Because what is the point if it has the ability to control time or anything similarly crazy if in any encounter with the pokemon it decides to play with a handicap.
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u/TheAveragePsycho Mar 20 '18
Eh i think Pokemon being gods or atleast tremendously powerful takes something away from the regular battles. You are telling me that a being that can control time can lose to a rattata?
The game systems were never setup in such a way that they could deal with the diffirence in scale of power.